How Bad Are the Umps?

[Bellhorn04]

So, your plan is to transmit pitch\Fx data to an umpire and do it in under 1.5 -2 sec?

 

You think games are too long now? Wait untill that plan is implemented.

 

GameDay feeds aren't much slower than realtime games because MLB thinks it's cool to delay them.

It takes time to process the raw data into a graphic of the balls path.

 

You've been watching too many Star Trek mvies.

 

Again, MLB can't be bothered to track foul ball over a pole or a HR over a wall.

They're not going to bother with any expensive data feeds to umpires.

 

No doubt there are deficiencies in the camera installations.

 

But the current replay system, including the 'Replay Operations Center' must cost a few dollars, don't you think?

[SoxnCycles]

No doubt there are deficiencies in the camera installations.

 

But the current replay system, including the 'Replay Operations Center' must cost a few dollars, don't you think?

 

Sure, and look at how long it took them to implement it, compared to how long the technology was available.

[User Name]

So, your plan is to transmit pitch\Fx data to an umpire and do it in under 1.5 -2 sec?

 

You think games are too long now? Wait untill that plan is implemented.

 

GameDay feeds aren't much slower than realtime games because MLB thinks it's cool to delay them.

It takes time to process the raw data into a graphic of the balls path.

 

You've been watching too many Star Trek mvies.

 

Again, MLB can't be bothered to track foul ball over a pole or a HR over a wall.

They're not going to bother with any expensive data feeds to umpires.

 

They just tested out a system where they had, A) A person making the strike/ball calls for the umpire using existing technology, Relaying the info of whether it was a ball or strike to the umpire, but he made the actual calls.

 

You need to get out of your cave. Get with the times. This is all existing technology and they just need ways to apply it.

[Youk Of The Nation]

They just tested out a system where they had, A) A person making the strike/ball calls for the umpire using existing technology, Relaying the info of whether it was a ball or strike to the umpire, but he made the actual calls.

 

You need to get out of your cave. Get with the times. This is all existing technology and they just need ways to apply it.

 

Baseball has always taken, um, a bit longer to get with the times than other sports. How long did it take baseball to integrate compared to the others? How long has football been using instant replay to make calls? Hell, I could be wrong, but didn't both football and hockey start using helmets long before baseball, even after Ray Chapman was killed by a pitch?

[SoxnCycles]

They just tested out a system where they had, A) A person making the strike/ball calls for the umpire using existing technology, Relaying the info of whether it was a ball or strike to the umpire, but he made the actual calls.

 

You need to get out of your cave. Get with the times. This is all existing technology and they just need ways to apply it.

 

MLB hasn't bothered to improve replay camera angles.

What makes you think they're in a big hurry to add more expense to a game?

 

Yes, I saw that "they" tested a system in one of the independent leagues.

With a guy in the press box, calling pitches over a PA system.

Funny how there's no mention of how long it takes to make said call.

 

I'm betting it wasn't mentioned because it's slow and the last thing MLB needs is more "slow".

[User Name]

MLB hasn't bothered to improve replay camera angles.

What makes you think they're in a big hurry to add more expense to a game?

 

Yes, I saw that "they" tested a system in one of the independent leagues.

With a guy in the press box, calling pitches over a PA system.

Funny how there's no mention of how long it takes to make said call.

 

I'm betting it wasn't mentioned because it's slow and the last thing MLB needs is more "slow".

 

Who's talking about being in a hurry on anything? What are you even talking about? This is all about future improvements, because as has been stated ad nauseum in this thread, the current union contract runs until 2020. They can't do anything until then, but when they can/if they decide to, the technology exists to improve the efficiency of strike calling. That's what's being discussed here.

[User Name]

Baseball has always taken, um, a bit longer to get with the times than other sports. How long did it take baseball to integrate compared to the others? How long has football been using instant replay to make calls? Hell, I could be wrong, but didn't both football and hockey start using helmets long before baseball, even after Ray Chapman was killed by a pitch?

 

They have enough time to test/fix whatever they would do, since they can't do anything until 2020.

[Maxbialystock]

Baseball has always taken, um, a bit longer to get with the times than other sports. How long did it take baseball to integrate compared to the others? How long has football been using instant replay to make calls? Hell, I could be wrong, but didn't both football and hockey start using helmets long before baseball, even after Ray Chapman was killed by a pitch?

 

When MLB integrated in 1947, the NFL, NHL, and NBA were struggling to stay alive while baseball was the national pastime. Plus baseball had the negro leagues. My point is that baseball finally got smart/enlightened when it made economic sense to do so. I recently read a book, A Nation Forged in War: How World War II Taught Americans to Get Along, which makes the case that 11 million plus serving in the armed services and then returning to their communities helped integration. My assumption is that MLB was/is conservative because it had more to lose than the other sports.

 

Instant replay, in my opinion, is a mixed blessing.

 

Helmets in football and hockey are far more likely to be needed than in baseball. And, oh, by the way, the NFL has a huge problem even today with head injuries and the long terms effects of regular blows to the helmet, so please don't claim that the NFL is way out in front on player safety.

 

Speaking of the NFL, most people today say it's now the national pastime, but in fact MLB has much greater attendance because they play 10 times as many games in ballparks that average 30,000/game vs. I guess 80,000 in football stadiums. The TV coverage of the NFL, I agree, is the most extensive by far even though for fewer games, which are mitigated by the fact that espn and others fill in the weeks with all kinds of stories about players, teams, trends, etc. The NFL season may be short, but NFL talk and shows and films and whatever go straight through the spring and summer.

[Kimmi]

MLB hasn't bothered to improve replay camera angles.

What makes you think they're in a big hurry to add more expense to a game?

 

Yes, I saw that "they" tested a system in one of the independent leagues.

With a guy in the press box, calling pitches over a PA system.

Funny how there's no mention of how long it takes to make said call.

 

I'm betting it wasn't mentioned because it's slow and the last thing MLB needs is more "slow".

 

I think you're absolutely correct that trying to use the existing Pitch/FX system to aid the umpires in making the correct call would slow the game down.

 

The technology does exist for completely automated zones. From what I've read, installing that technology, which is not the same as the current Pitch/FX technology, in every stadium would be a huge and expensive undertaking. Additionally, the maintenance on the system would be a rather large and expensive job.

 

I am sure we will eventually see it, but as others have said, it won't be for a while.

 

IMO, what we'll see next is giving each team a couple of challenges on ball/strike calls.

[mvp 78]

I think you're absolutely correct that trying to use the existing Pitch/FX system to aid the umpires in making the correct call would slow the game down.

 

The technology does exist for completely automated zones. From what I've read, installing that technology, which is not the same as the current Pitch/FX technology, in every stadium would be a huge and expensive undertaking. Additionally, the maintenance on the system would be a rather large and expensive job.

 

I am sure we will eventually see it, but as others have said, it won't be for a while.

 

IMO, what we'll see next is giving each team a couple of challenges on ball/strike calls.

 

This would be worse. I can barely tolerate the replays as it is and watching the bench coach sit on the phone for any close call is just infuriating.

[Kimmi]

This would be worse. I can barely tolerate the replays as it is and watching the bench coach sit on the phone for any close call is just infuriating.

 

I'm not saying I approve of it. Remember, I am against instant replay, period. I'm just saying that I think it's the next step. But yeah, it would definitely disturb the rhythm of the game.

[sk7326]

A couple of thoughts that are related:

 

1. Should fans not be allowed to sit so close to the HR lines where fan interference could affect the game? A fan last night may have affected the outcome of the game. Isn't that similar to the umpire affecting the game with an 'unfair' call?

 

Also, should we make all stadiums be dome stadiums so that, for instance, an outfielder does not 'unfairly' lose a ball in the sun? Is it fair that Wright's one bad outing this year was due to rain?

 

2. As far as the frustration with umpires goes, I think it would be extremely boring knowing that a ball/strike call is always going to be right. Part of the experience of being a fan is suffering the frustration of bad calls (I know there's plenty of frustration outside of umpire calls). The fan experience would become rather mundane if everything were always perfect.

 

There are rules governing fan interference - umpires are there to apply them. Game conditions are what they are.

 

Balls and strikes is about errors - lapses in competence and accuracy. It is the equivalent of the 1985 Denkinger call. The case is just not comparable.

[Bellhorn04]

I'm not saying I approve of it. Remember, I am against instant replay, period. I'm just saying that I think it's the next step. But yeah, it would definitely disturb the rhythm of the game.

 

Hmmm...personally I would say a lot of ballgames are a wee bit lacking in rhythm anyway...like yesterday's 4 hour 25 minute beauty.

[Kimmi]

Here's a good read from the best baseball site ever.

 

Who Will Hate Robot Umps the Most?

 

 

In short, the players don't seem to be in favor of it.

 

I can’t speak for all players, obviously. I haven’t talked to all of them. But I’ve talked to plenty on both sides, even ones I can’t quote here, and the biggest endorsement I could get was a tepid version of “It’s going to happen.”

 

They bring up some good points against it. Score one for us traditionalists.

[mvp 78]

Here's a good read from the best baseball site ever.

 

Who Will Hate Robot Umps the Most?

 

 

In short, the players don't seem to be in favor of it.

 

I can’t speak for all players, obviously. I haven’t talked to all of them. But I’ve talked to plenty on both sides, even ones I can’t quote here, and the biggest endorsement I could get was a tepid version of “It’s going to happen.”

 

They bring up some good points against it. Score one for us traditionalists.

 

Of course it's a Fangraphs story...

[Kimmi]

Of course it's a Fangraphs story...

 

LOL I knew you would like that.

[Bellhorn04]

Here's a good read from the best baseball site ever.

 

Who Will Hate Robot Umps the Most?

 

 

In short, the players don't seem to be in favor of it.

 

I can’t speak for all players, obviously. I haven’t talked to all of them. But I’ve talked to plenty on both sides, even ones I can’t quote here, and the biggest endorsement I could get was a tepid version of “It’s going to happen.”

 

They bring up some good points against it. Score one for us traditionalists.

 

In another article I read on this topic it was opined that the players don't want to go on record that they want the umps replaced because they think it might get them unfavorable treatment from the umps.

 

Also, if you read Josh Donaldson's comments in this article, they are generally positive about making the change.

[User Name]

And Bell steps back, leaps......and......he ROBS a homerun from Kimmi!

[Spudboy]

There remains no rational reason not to implement the new technology.

[Bellhorn04]

Here are the quotes from Donaldson, which I thought were quite interesting, and balanced.

 

“The first year or so hitters aren’t going to like it,” he said earlier this year. “You’re going to get those breaking balls that are in the dirt — big 12-to-6 curveballs that hit the plate — they’re going to be strikes. You’re going to get the high fastballs up there, they’re up, but they’ll be strikes.”

 

“Day in and day out, our strike zones are different. I’ve been punched out two times this year at balls in my neck. I would be into it. If you could have the strike zone the same every day, you’d get used to it and have better awareness.”

[mvp 78]

Here are the quotes from Donaldson, which I thought were quite interesting, and balanced.

 

“The first year or so hitters aren’t going to like it,” he said earlier this year. “You’re going to get those breaking balls that are in the dirt — big 12-to-6 curveballs that hit the plate — they’re going to be strikes. You’re going to get the high fastballs up there, they’re up, but they’ll be strikes.”

 

“Day in and day out, our strike zones are different. I’ve been punched out two times this year at balls in my neck. I would be into it. If you could have the strike zone the same every day, you’d get used to it and have better awareness.”

 

Pffft, what does HE know...

[Kimmi]

In another article I read on this topic it was opined that the players don't want to go on record that they want the umps replaced because they think it might get them unfavorable treatment from the umps.

 

Also, if you read Josh Donaldson's comments in this article, they are generally positive about making the change.

 

Your first point is valid, and Sarris acknowledges it in this article. That said, I'm not sure whether some of the players spoke to Sarris with the agreement that they would not be quoted or identified, in which case unfavorable treatment from the umps would not be a concern.

 

Aside from whether players would actually be for or against it, I thought the article brought up some good points.

[Slasher9]

hitters will love having a consistent strike zone. there is no doubt about it.

#robo-umps-now

[Bellhorn04]

There were a pile of bad strike calls on the Jays today. You could use that game as an exhibit in the case for automation.

[Kimmi]

There were a pile of bad strike calls on the Jays today. You could use that game as an exhibit in the case for automation.

 

From what I saw, the strike zone was being called the same for both teams. One of the Jays announcers even noted after a Jays hitter got punched out on a ball out of the zone that that had been a strike all day for both teams. That doesn't excuse the bad calls, I know.

 

On a more relevant issue for me, I thoroughly enjoyed the ejections of Encarnacion and Martin. To me, that's part of the game that will be sorely missed with an automated strike zone. Just like I miss the managers rants and subsequent ejections on blown calls on other plays.

 

Scioscia might have been tossed in last night's game if instant replay were not around. How fun would that have been?

[Bellhorn04]

Arguing and ejections slow down the game.

[Kimmi]

Arguing and ejections slow down the game.

 

In general, I have never really had any problems with the pace of the game. I don't like it when a pitcher takes forever in between pitches when they get runners on base, and I don't like all of the commercial breaks during pitching changes at the end of the game. But I can live with both.

[sk7326]

From what I saw, the strike zone was being called the same for both teams. One of the Jays announcers even noted after a Jays hitter got punched out on a ball out of the zone that that had been a strike all day for both teams. That doesn't excuse the bad calls, I know.

 

On a more relevant issue for me, I thoroughly enjoyed the ejections of Encarnacion and Martin. To me, that's part of the game that will be sorely missed with an automated strike zone. Just like I miss the managers rants and subsequent ejections on blown calls on other plays.

 

Scioscia might have been tossed in last night's game if instant replay were not around. How fun would that have been?

 

there is plenty of fodder for ejections anyway

[Maxbialystock]

It just occurred to me that this entire thread is a travesty. It's on the talksox forum, but should be on the general baseball forum. Does this mean we are all going to be banned for acting against the good order and discipline of talksox.com?

[User Name]

No, just you, for being the second most annoying of pricks, closely following a certain Yankees troll.

 

Seriously, you can bring some pretty interesting insight, but give the unwarranted sense of self-importance/dry wit attempts a f***ing rest. Goddamn.