Christian Vazquez

[Bellhorn04]

Personally I like that there's an ever-growing smorgasbord of information out there for those who want to understand the game better, and that fans are free to partake of as much or as little of it as they wish.

 

Exactly.

[Kimmi]

How many of these stats actually enhance our understanding of the game and how many of them pelt us with mostly meaningless trivia?

 

Actually, I think most of these stats do enhance our understanding of the game. Looking at one stat alone probably won't tell you much, but used in combination with other stats can give you some valuable insight.

[Kimmi]

I have no doubt that exit velocity could be useful for analysis purposes. But at the same time it could be quite useless to the average fan. Personally I don't think it will ever add anything to my baseball experience.

 

There was speculation early last season (again) that Papi's bat speed had slowed down and he was, therefore, not generating the same power. However, his exit velocity was still among the top batters in baseball, which offered some evidence against that speculation.

[Kimmi]

That is also true, but they need to put something in the graphics, and some people who don't watch and follow the games do need the information.

 

Cop out statement.

[Kimmi]

Personally I like that there's an ever-growing smorgasbord of information out there for those who want to understand the game better, and that fans are free to partake of as much or as little of it as they wish.

 

I had forgotten how much I like your posts.

[User Name]

It's easy to hate on stuff that takes effort to understand Kimmi.

[S5Dewey]

Actually... this is a fairly meaningless statistic. If you look at the simple formula for "force", the force that drives the ball, it's Force = mass x velocity, the force being what moves the ball, the mass being the amount of the bat that contacts the ball (does it hit the balls squarely?) and the velocity being the bat speed.

 

It's entirely possible that Hanley could strike the ball less squarely but the ball would have a higher exit speed than if, say, Vazquez hit the ball, simply because Hanley is stronger so he generates more bat speed. In a situation like that Hanley may hit a ground ball or a popup with more exit speed than a home run hit by Vaz if Vaz hits the ball 'on the screws'.

 

Is Hanley's ground ball hit with an exit speed of 100 MPH more valuable than Vaz's HR hit with an exit speed of 90 MPH? The "Wow!" factor is nice when we can say that Hanley's HR had an exit speed of 110 MPH, but what does it really mean in terms of the game?

[a700hitter]

Cop out statement.

It is a true statement.

[CliffKlowers]

Good points Dewey. Bat speed is also due to the speed of the shoulders, arms. and wrists. Hank Aaron excelled at HRs because he had a great bat speed and not necessarily the strength of Frank Howard or Jim Rice. Some tennis players have fast serves despite being short and less muscular because they have perfected the toss, leverage, and mechanics.

[User Name]

Actually... this is a fairly meaningless statistic. If you look at the simple formula for "force", the force that drives the ball, it's Force = mass x velocity, the force being what moves the ball, the mass being the amount of the bat that contacts the ball (does it hit the balls squarely?) and the velocity being the bat speed.

 

It's entirely possible that Hanley could strike the ball less squarely but the ball would have a higher exit speed than if, say, Vazquez hit the ball, simply because Hanley is stronger so he generates more bat speed. In a situation like that Hanley may hit a ground ball or a popup with more exit speed than a home run hit by Vaz if Vaz hits the ball 'on the screws'.

 

Is Hanley's ground ball hit with an exit speed of 100 MPH more valuable than Vaz's HR hit with an exit speed of 90 MPH? The "Wow!" factor is nice when we can say that Hanley's HR had an exit speed of 110 MPH, but what does it really mean in terms of the game?

 

That's why Exit velocity comes packaged with launch angle, and when combined, over decent sample sizes, you have a general idea of why certain guys who seem to consistently "sting" the ball don't get better power results. But of course, all of this is fairly meaningless and all that.

[Bellhorn04]

There was speculation early last season (again) that Papi's bat speed had slowed down and he was, therefore, not generating the same power. However, his exit velocity was still among the top batters in baseball, which offered some evidence against that speculation.

 

I can certainly see where that kind of data can be useful analytical information. I just don't think it's the kind of data you need when you're watching a game. I think there's a point where there's too much information.

[a700hitter]

A players Exit Velocity is the one statistic that a blind person could judge fairly accurately just from the sounds at batting practice. Edited May 28, 2016 by a700hitter

[mvp 78]

@redsoxstats Just noticed Hanley's single was hit 114 mph, the hardest hit ball by a Sox player this year. 5th 114+ in the last 2 years, all by Hanley.

[User Name]

A players Exit Velocity is the one statistic that a blind person could judge fairly accurately just from the sounds at batting practice.

 

Yeah, because batting practice results directly correlate to in-game results. And it's still an extremely simplistic view of a much more complex subject.

[Bellhorn04]

Yeah, because batting practice results directly correlate to in-game results. And it's still an extremely simplistic view of a much more complex subject.

 

Not everybody wants or needs baseball to be extremely complex. People like you and Kimmi and sk7326 are super-analytical about baseball because you're into it, and you're all very good at it. But we're all wired a little differently.

[a700hitter]

Yeah, because batting practice results directly correlate to in-game results. And it's still an extremely simplistic view of a much more complex subject.

Not really. The elite players with elite bat speed sound different during batting practice. They stand out. They just do. I have experienced it many times. Everyone else is in one range and the elite guys have their own level. Is it an oversimplification? Yes. Is batting practice the best place to judge a player's performance? No, but I would prefer to evaluate a guy by watching him take batting practice than reviewing some exit velocity numbers on paper any day. I really don't think much can be learned from exit velocity numbers.

 

I remember the story about about Ted Williams at an All Star game running out from the clubhouse to see who was hitting because of the sound of the guy's batting practice. That guy was Henry Aaron.

[mvp 78]

Not everybody wants or needs baseball to be extremely complex. People like you and Kimmi and sk7326 are super-analytical about baseball because you're into it, and you're all very good at it. But we're all wired a little differently.

 

You don't have to lie to them...

[Bellhorn04]

You don't have to lie to them...

 

I'm serious. I argue with them at times but I know they understand some of this stuff a lot better than I do.

[mvp 78]

I'm serious. I argue with them at times but I know they understand some of this stuff a lot better than I do.

 

If exit velocity was converted to metric, would it help?

[CliffKlowers]

Another factor not mentioned above is the the exit speed off of the bat would vary with leverage which would increase with how far down the bat that contact was made. Those using 42 inch bats would get more leverage / momentum than those using a 34 inch bat. I.e. a long catapault would usually throw a rock much further than a short one.

[User Name]

Not really. The elite players with elite bat speed sound different during batting practice. They stand out. They just do. I have experienced it many times. Everyone else is in one range and the elite guys have their own level. Is it an oversimplification? Yes. Is batting practice the best place to judge a player's performance? No, but I would prefer to evaluate a guy by watching him take batting practice than reviewing some exit velocity numbers on paper any day. I really don't think much can be learned from exit velocity numbers.

 

I remember the story about about Ted Williams at an All Star game running out from the clubhouse to see who was hitting because of the sound of the guy's batting practice. That guy was Henry Aaron.

 

1) What about people like me, who don't live in the US and can't go to batting practice.

 

2) You can do both, and I still think you don't understand the usefulness of AEV+ launch angle because you haven't taken the time to analyze what they actually do.

 

Again, you're free to not like any stat. But don't christen them "useless" if they are useful/enjoyable for other people who don't have the same access/thought process you do.

[User Name]

Another factor not mentioned above is the the exit speed off of the bat would vary with leverage which would increase with how far down the bat that contact was made. Those using 42 inch bats would get more leverage / momentum than those using a 34 inch bat. I.e. a long catapault would usually throw a rock much further than a short one.

 

What exactly does this have to do with the topic at hand? Also, Barry Bonds used a 34-inch and he grabbed it short, yet he hit some of the longest home runs in MLB history.

[S5Dewey]

1) What about people like me, who don't live in the US and can't go to batting practice.

 

2) You can do both, and I still think you don't understand the usefulness of AEV+ launch angle because you haven't taken the time to analyze what they actually do.

 

Again, you're free to not like any stat. But don't christen them "useless" if they are useful/enjoyable for other people who don't have the same access/thought process you do.

OK. Assuming that you find exit velocity useful, what do YOU use it for? I'm not taking away the fact that it's enjoyable (again, the "Wow!" factor) but I don't see its practical use.

[CliffKlowers]

If the topic at hand is "exit speed" off the bat

Then among other factors

The length of the bat is also a factor or variable

Others are weight of the bat

Speed of the swing

Strength of the batter's grip.

Exit speed and trajectory determine how far a ball will be hit as well as the wind, atmosphere, altitude

[Dojji]

OK. Assuming that you find exit velocity useful, what do YOU use it for? I'm not taking away the fact that it's enjoyable (again, the "Wow!" factor) but I don't see its practical use.

 

I'd say its only rteal practical use is as an indicator that a guy who's struggling is still hitting the ball with enough authority that the hits will eventually come.

[CliffKlowers]

If a pitching machine was set up at home plate and different speeds were inputed and the ideal trajectory angle ( 45 degrees) was calibrated then the longest balls hit would be from those at the highest exit speed. Nothing new here. Just the laws of physics that are taught on day #1 of rocket science 101.

[Dojji]

I think I'll stick to the somewhat more conventional FB-LD-GB ratio

[Jack Flap]

I had forgotten how much I like your posts.

 

Aww, shucks. I could say the same, of course.

 

 

 

Regarding exit velocity...it's easy for me to see how a fan could watch every game of every season and never pay any attention to it, and never miss it. Nothing wrong with that. That doesn't make it a bad or useless stat, though.

 

My eyes told me that Jackie smoked those two balls that ended up as fly outs the other night, and maybe for some people that's enough, but I like having something quantifiable to back that up as well. If I was trying to explain the event to someone who didn't watch or had no way to see the game, I can point to actual data to support my account, and not just "He hit it really hard, man."

 

Like Hugh was saying earlier, almost any statistic can be dismissed out of hand if we assume that "the eye test" is sufficient on its own. I already know that Ortiz has been hitting a ton of doubles and home runs, so do we really need to track his slugging percentage?

[S5Dewey]

If a pitching machine was set up at home plate and different speeds were inputed and the ideal trajectory angle ( 45 degrees) was calibrated then the longest balls hit would be from those at the highest exit speed. Nothing new here. Just the laws of physics that are taught on day #1 of rocket science 101.

 

Completely true, The fly in the ointment here is the phrase "ideal trajectory angle". That trajectory angle is as crucial as bat speed in determining the flight of the ball and therefore determining the value of the exit speed.

 

I think we all know how difficult it is to hit a moving sphere with a moving cylinder at the optimum trajectory angle, both on a North-South and East-West axes. Ted Williams said it best when he said that the hardest thing in sports hitting a moving baseball with a bat - or something like that.

[S5Dewey]

Aww, shucks. I could say the same, of course.

 

 

 

Regarding exit velocity...it's easy for me to see how a fan could watch every game of every season and never pay any attention to it, and never miss it. Nothing wrong with that. That doesn't make it a bad or useless stat, though.

 

My eyes told me that Jackie smoked those two balls that ended up as fly outs the other night, and maybe for some people that's enough, but I like having something quantifiable to back that up as well. If I was trying to explain the event to someone who didn't watch or had no way to see the game, I can point to actual data to support my account, and not just "He hit it really hard, man."

 

Like Hugh was saying earlier, almost any statistic can be dismissed out of hand if we assume that "the eye test" is sufficient on its own. I already know that Ortiz has been hitting a ton of doubles and home runs, so do we really need to track his slugging percentage?

 

Of course we do! We're baseball fans and we're obsessed with statistics!!