Sox Pitching Staff Discussion

[devildavid]

And you think that they haven't been working with Price all season long?

 

I have no idea what they have or haven't been doing with Price. I only know his results have been disappointing so far. If he fails to live up to expectations, some of the blame will fall, rightly so, on management.

[Spudboy]

I reserve chastising the management for really stupid s*** like dumping Lester and Lackey and signing Sandoval.

 

Kind of difficult to blame them for the under performance of one of the best pitchers in the game.

[a700hitter]

I reserve chastising the management for really stupid s*** like dumping Lester and Lackey and signing Sandoval.

 

Kind of difficult to blame them for the under performance of one of the best pitchers in the game.

I concur.

[moonslav59]

I reserve chastising the management for really stupid s*** like dumping Lester and Lackey and signing Sandoval.

 

Kind of difficult to blame them for the under performance of one of the best pitchers in the game.

 

Why I don't disagree, Pablo is signed for less than half of what Price got, and he "under performed as well.

 

While he was never a great 3Bman, he was a very clucth playoff performer and a decent regular season hitter and fielder until he came here.

 

I'm not defending Pablo. I hated the signing, I'm just saying just about everyone we sign has under performed.

 

[SoxnCycles]

Why I don't disagree, Pablo is signed for less than half of what Price got, and he "under performed as well.

 

While he was never a great 3Bman, he was a very clucth playoff performer and a decent regular season hitter and fielder until he came here.

 

I'm not defending Pablo. I hated the signing, I'm just saying just about everyone we sign has under performed.

 

 

Yeah, but DD didn't sign Pablo, Chernington did.

That's the difference.

 

Makes sense, doesn't it?

[illinoisredsox]

Re. Price, I think Eck was onto something several weeks ago when he said that Price is in a transition process as a pitcher, moving from the flame thrower we remember into a guy who will have to rely a little more on location, etc. He's always been more of a pitcher than a thrower, so he should be able to do it, but unfortunately for the 2016 Red Sox he's still going through the process. Not much anyone can do except let him go through it. And let's face it, the last game not withstanding, overall he's been pretty good since June 1. Not his fault that in most of those games the offense decided to take the night off.

[Slasher9]

Re. Price, I think Eck was onto something several weeks ago when he said that Price is in a transition process as a pitcher, moving from the flame thrower we remember into a guy who will have to rely a little more on location, etc. He's always been more of a pitcher than a thrower, so he should be able to do it, but unfortunately for the 2016 Red Sox he's still going through the process. Not much anyone can do except let him go through it. And let's face it, the last game not withstanding, overall he's been pretty good since June 1. Not his fault that in most of those games the offense decided to take the night off.

Hey IL. what you (and Eck) say makes sense. but let me ask you this. if you are the GM....do you give a SP $217MM / 7 years if year 1 of that contract is a "transition year" in the hopes the former fireballer can become a successful pitcher?

[jacksonianmarch]

You didn't know he'd be in transition until his fastball came out 2 mph off his numbers from last year

[illinoisredsox]

1, I can only imagine what Prices mind was thinking while Dustin was giving him pitching advice... 2, Overall Price has still sucked since that happened.

 

1) Pitchers will take advice from anyone.

 

2) Actually, no he hasn't. Here are his line scores since:

 

Date IP H R ER BB K DEC

5/12 6 2/3 6 1 1 1 12 W

5/18 7 1/3 5 2 2 1 5 W

5/24 7 5 3 3 1 6 W

5/29 6 1/3 5 2 2 3 3 ND (Sox won game)

6/3 7 6 3 3 4 5 L

6/8 8 3 2 2 2 7 L

6/14 8 5 3 3 0 11 L

6/19 6 8 1 1 0 7 W

6/24 2 1/3 12 6 6 0 1 ND (Sox won game)

6/29 6 1/3 9 4 4 1 10 L

7/5 8 8 3 3 1 10 L

7/10 8 4 0 0 1 10 W

7/17 5 2/3 11 3 3 1 1 L

7/23 5 2/3 11 5 5 2 4 ND (Sox lost game)

7/28 8 7 0 0 1 6 ND (Sox lost game)

8/2 7 7 4 4 0 5 ND (Sox lost game)

8/7 5 6 6 3 5 3 L

 

 

17 games, I count 11 good starts (and certainly starts that you would take out of any pitcher and ones the team could have won had the offense shown up those days), 3-4 bad ones and 2-3 mediocre ones.

 

Since Pedroia's advice, ERA has dropped from 6.75 to 4.34 (still above where it needs to be, but a significant drop).

 

While he hasn't been Cy Young level, if that's sucking, 90% of the pitchers in both league suck.

 

EDIT - Apologies for the eye chart, haven't figured out the table thing yet. Works great in WORD.

Edited August 9, 2016 by illinoisredsox

[Slasher9]

You didn't know he'd be in transition until his fastball came out 2 mph off his numbers from last year

 

it's going to be a long 7 years. any advice for us since you have had to deal with this type of situation over and over and over again?

[mvp 78]

You didn't know he'd be in transition until his fastball came out 2 mph off his numbers from last year

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=3184&position=P

 

Nope.

[mvp 78]

Since May 12, his ERA is 3.50. He hasn't been the disaster people make him out to be. He just isn't the "ace" we were expecting. If he can roll out Beckett year 2 next year, it's all good.

 

Doesn't help that he's had 4 different catchers to work with. Yes, that matters.

[greenwell]

Re. Price, I think Eck was onto something several weeks ago when he said that Price is in a transition process as a pitcher, moving from the flame thrower we remember into a guy who will have to rely a little more on location, etc. He's always been more of a pitcher than a thrower, so he should be able to do it, but unfortunately for the 2016 Red Sox he's still going through the process. Not much anyone can do except let him go through it. And let's face it, the last game not withstanding, overall he's been pretty good since June 1. Not his fault that in most of those games the offense decided to take the night off.

 

I'm getting pretty tired of the Price apologists. No, he hasn't been good since June 1. He was good in July, that's about it. He has had several good starts, but consistency is what makes a great pitcher, most pitchers have some good starts. I'm not giving up on him, but this team would be in first place if he had pitched even close to what he should be.

[illinoisredsox]

We all heard about how Pedroia was the one to notice and point out the change in prices delivery. Papa smurf should have been fired and replaced that day for not being the one to notice it.....

 

Maybe Price only takes advice from people with the initials DP.

[illinoisredsox]

I'm getting pretty tired of the Price apologists. No, he hasn't been good since June 1. He was good in July, that's about it. He has had several good starts, but consistency is what makes a great pitcher, most pitchers have some good starts. I'm not giving up on him, but this team would be in first place if he had pitched even close to what he should be.

 

Then get tired. He's had 11 good starts since May 12 in 17 games (games the team should have won, in a few of them, all they needed to do was score 2-3 runs, in the rest, 4 would have done the job). He's had 2-3 mediocre ones (where he hasn't been terrible and he's given the team a chance to win) and he's had 3-4 horrific ones (ironically, the offense has actually shown up in a couple of these).

 

As I said, he hasn't been Cy Young like, but he's been decent.

Edited August 9, 2016 by illinoisredsox

[illinoisredsox]

Hey IL. what you (and Eck) say makes sense. but let me ask you this. if you are the GM....do you give a SP $217MM / 7 years if year 1 of that contract is a "transition year" in the hopes the former fireballer can become a successful pitcher?

 

It's the chance you take when you sign a pitcher who is over 30 (especially one who has been around a while).

[Wade Boggs]

The stat that needs to be brought up and if somebody has it , is what is Price's won/lost stat after a Red Sox loss. I call it the stopper stat. I'm not saying its all on him because its not. I just want to know.

[greenwell]

Then get tired. He's had 11 good starts since May 12 in 17 games (games the team should have won, in a few of them, all they needed to do was score 2-3 runs, in the rest, 4 would have done the job). He's had 2-3 mediocre ones (where he hasn't been terrible and he's given the team a chance to win) and he's had 3-4 horrific ones (ironically, the offense has actually shown up in a couple of these).

 

As I said, he hasn't been Cy Young like, but he's been decent.

 

I guess you're right. If people are happy with 11 out of 17 good starts, 20% of his starts being horrible, the most hits given up in the majors, an ERA that's 60th out of 90 qualified pitchers there's not much I can say.

[mvp 78]

Then get tired. He's had 11 good starts since May 12 in 17 games (games the team should have won, in a few of them, all they needed to do was score 2-3 runs, in the rest, 4 would have done the job). He's had 2-3 mediocre ones (where he hasn't been terrible and he's given the team a chance to win) and he's had 3-4 horrific ones (ironically, the offense has actually shown up in a couple of these).

 

As I said, he hasn't been Cy Young like, but he's been decent.

 

But he hasn't been as good as Pedro was in 1999 or 2000! RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE...

[SoxnCycles]

But he hasn't been as good as Pedro was in 1999 or 2000! RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE...

 

He's not even as good as Bartolo Colon.

[a700hitter]

But he hasn't been as good as Pedro was in 1999 or 2000! RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE...

He is having a very similar season to Beckett's first year with the Red Sox. Price is pitching better imo.

[mvp 78]

If he returns to career norms next year, his contract will be fine.

 

All the bluster about needing to win a ring for Ortiz is a little overstated. This team isn't built to win right now with this rotation.

[S5Dewey]

This team isn't built to win right now with this rotation.

 

^^Profound^^ {with just a touch of good-natured sarcasm}

 

That may be the understatement of the week. The Red Sox weren't built to win with this year's pitching staff just like they weren't built to win with last year's pitching staff. Price is a nice addition but he's only the first step. Porcillo and Wright are both #2 1/2's. What the team needs is a real #2 and then fill in the gaps at the bottom.

 

Note to John Henry: YOU CANNOT GIVE UP YOUR ENTIRE PITCHING STAFF AT THE END OF ONE SEASON AND EXPECT TO BE COMPETITIVE AGAIN IMMEDIATELY.

[mvp 78]

Right, it goes back to not re-signing Lester last year. They are playing catch up now and it's not working.

[greenwell]

If he returns to career norms next year, his contract will be fine.

 

All the bluster about needing to win a ring for Ortiz is a little overstated. This team isn't built to win right now with this rotation.

 

I completely disagree. Wright and Porcello are both top 12 in the AL in ERA, WHIP, and OPS against. Both are tied for 5th in QS. If Price can pick it up a little bit and ERod can continue to pitch like he did the last 2 months and last year their rotation is fine.

[mvp 78]

I completely disagree. Wright and Porcello are both top 12 in the AL in ERA, WHIP, and OPS against. Both are tied for 5th in QS. If Price can pick it up a little bit and ERod can continue to pitch like he did the last 2 months and last year their rotation is fine.

 

And Wright's numbers are fading fast. He's not a guy you can count on long term. The playoff rotation would be Price (struggled this season has struggled in previous postseasons), Wright (can't deal with moisture and has zero secondary pitches if he loses the feel on his knuckler), Porcello (yay?) and ERod (huge question mark as to what he can bring to the table). That's not a team built to win now.

[mvp 78]

I completely disagree. Wright and Porcello are both top 12 in the AL in ERA, WHIP, and OPS against. Both are tied for 5th in QS. If Price can pick it up a little bit and ERod can continue to pitch like he did the last 2 months and last year their rotation is fine.

 

And Wright's numbers are fading fast. He's not a guy you can count on long term. The playoff rotation would be Price (struggled this season has struggled in previous postseasons), Wright (can't deal with moisture and has zero secondary pitches if he loses the feel on his knuckler), Porcello (yay?) and ERod (huge question mark as to what he can bring to the table). That's not a team built to win now. That's a team built to win in the regular season, but not the postseason.

[Slasher9]

It's the chance you take when you sign a pitcher who is over 30 (especially one who has been around a while).

 

agreed. i just wasnt expecting to be panicking year 1. but as you have pointed out, he has had some much better starts in spurts lately so hopefully he becomes who we all expected him to be....

[sk7326]

The trick in the postseason - let alone getting there - is that there will be a much much quicker hook with the starters. This is not a rotation on current form which can win the World Series - but you get to the secondary question. Can you address that the way the Royals did ... just don't pitch them?

 

Really when you look at this team's ability coming down the stretch, your real guys to watch are Barnes, Ross, Abad, Buchholz. Farrell isn't (or shouldn't) let ERod go through the order more than twice without having his finger on the eject button. That will apply to everybody but Price. But can those swing guys pick up a game in the 5th or 6th and consistently deliver it to the finishers.

[Slasher9]

The stat that needs to be brought up and if somebody has it , is what is Price's won/lost stat after a Red Sox loss. I call it the stopper stat. I'm not saying its all on him because its not. I just want to know.

 

24 starts.

start 1 is thrown out because it was game 1 of the season.

that leaves 23 starts.

 

LL (team Lost in Price start coming off a Loss in the previous game)

7

 

LW (team Won in Price start coming off a Loss in the previous game)

3

 

WW (team Won in Price start coming off a Win in the previous game)

7

 

WL (team Lost in Price start coming off a Win in the previous game)

6

 

definitely not a "Stopper". unless you mean Winning streak Stopper.