Sox Pitching Staff Discussion

[mvp 78]

http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2016/02/03/bradfo-show-clay-buchholz-thought-he-might-be-traded/

 

“I was actually on the phone with Wade Miley talking about the whole Seattle thing, because my name was involved in that, and obviously his name."

[User Name]

Just media speculation.

[harmony]

In the prior discussion, your POV was that (and you brought evidence) that the Sox had indeed offered up Clay and Miley, but the M's chose Miley. Now, negotiations were widely reported, but the Buch/Miley angle was pure media speculation. Which is it?

I have never stated that the Mariners were offered Clay Buchholz ... quite the opposite. I have consistently posted that I've read no reports that the Red Sox offered Buchholz to the Mariners.

 

Again, I welcome evidence to the contrary.

[mvp 78]

Just media speculation.

 

Do general managers typically come out and speak about every person that was involved in trade discussions? Maybe we need JH to storm the 98.5 studios again so we can get to the bottom of this.

 

Where there's smoke...

[User Name]

I have never stated that the Mariners were offered Clay Buchholz ... quite the opposite. I have consistently posted that I've read no reports that the Red Sox offered Buchholz to the Mariners.

 

Again, I welcome evidence to the contrary.

To elaborate:

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/12/mariners-buchholz-miley-trade-redsox.html

 

 

http://www.mlbdailydish.com/2015/12/7/9864594/mlb-trade-rumors-mariners-red-sox-buchholz-miley

 

http://www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2015/12/boston_red_sox_trade_rumors_ma.html

 

http://www.hngn.com/articles/157871/20151207/mlb-trade-rumors-boston-red-sox-seattle-mariners-work-out-deal-for-wade-miley-sox-garnering-interest-on-sps-clay-buchholz-joe-kelly-too.htm

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/12/08/red-sox-traded-away-wrong-guy-wade-miley/F29p2YXUJ8G8Mx3ijW0v0N/story.html

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2016/02/06/red-sox-took-gamble-keeping-clay-buchholz/InHoj4tDzfpPtNZa1BpHCK/story.html

 

Your post, in response to Kimmi's point that it was mostly "speculation" that they were choosing between between Miley and Buch, but that the speculation was rampant.

 

Clay Buchholz is the Mercedes-Benz S-Class that is in the shop half the time while Wade Miley is a Toyota Camry that requires only routine maintenance.

 

http://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability/most-and-least-reliable-cars-by-class/

 

If given the choice, the Seattle Mariners chose the Camry.

 

Your post, on what the Mariners actually did when confronted with the choice between Miley and Buchholz.

[Slasher9]

it's not like wade is pitching lights out. they are almost the same pitcher. except wade is contracted through next year.

you guys are arguing which pile of poo smells worse.

i say if given the choice, the Mariners would have been better of getting Clay. change of scenery, bigger ballpark...probably have a sub 4 ERA right now.

so now i have chosen which poo smells worse.....

[User Name]

Miley has averaged 198 IP since becoming a full-time starter. Miley offers durability with league-average results (although he's been terrible this year). Buchholz offers either run-prevention ability or some durability every other year. They are not the same pitcher. Not even close.

[mvp 78]

it's not like wade is pitching lights out. they are almost the same pitcher. except wade is contracted through next year.

you guys are arguing which pile of poo smells worse.

i say if given the choice, the Mariners would have been better of getting Clay. change of scenery, bigger ballpark...probably have a sub 4 ERA right now.

so now i have chosen which poo smells worse.....

 

Oh God no...

 

In that case, if Miley stayed here, he'd probably have a sub 4 ERA since he was already familiar with the team and wouldn't have to adjust to a new ballpark and routine.

[harmony]

Your post, in response to Kimmi's point that it was mostly "speculation" that they were choosing between between Miley and Buch, but that the speculation was rampant.

 

Your post, on what the Mariners actually did when confronted with the choice between Miley and Buchholz.

Thank you for offering my previously provided links to reports, none which state Seattle was given the choice between Wade Miley and Clay Buchholz.

 

To state that the Red Sox offered the Mariners Miley or Buchholz might be accurate ... or not. I have seen no information to confirm that one way or the other.

 

To state that it has been widely reported that the Red Sox offered the Mariners Miley or Buchholz is wrong.

 

I have been consistent in posting that I've seen no report that the Red Sox offered the Mariners the choice of Miley or Buchholz.

 

I have been consistent in posting that, if given the choice, I suspect Seattle preferred Miley over Buchholz.

[User Name]

I am arguing your opinion, you are arguing factuals. What I've been saying you flip-flopped on is your opinion on the Miley-Buch front. None of us know anything with factual accuracy on trades that did not happen other than what the media speculates. Media speculation was rampant (and MVP posted a link that confirms) that Buchholz was part of the Seattle negotiations. You have been cagey regarding that opinion in the last pages of this thread.

 

So which is it: If Seattle had a choice between Buch and Miley (and there is evidence from Buchholz himself they did) do you think the Mariners rejected Buchholz and chose Miley?

[harmony]

I am arguing your opinion, you are arguing factuals. What I've been saying you flip-flopped on is your opinion on the Miley-Buch front. None of us know anything with factual accuracy on trades that did not happen other than what the media speculates. Media speculation was rampant (and MVP posted a link that confirms) that Buchholz was part of the Seattle negotiations. You have been cagey regarding that opinion in the last pages of this thread.

 

So which is it: If Seattle had a choice between Buch and Miley (and there is evidence from Buchholz himself they did) do you think the Mariners rejected Buchholz and chose Miley?

According to WEEI, Clay Buchholz reported that his name came up in the Red Sox negotiations with the Mariners. That may be true although I don't know the source of Buchholz's information. What has never been reported is that the Red Sox gave the Mariners the choice between Buchholz and Wade Miley.

 

Again, I have been consistent in posting that, if given the choice, I suspect Seattle preferred Miley over Buchholz. I have never wavered on that opinion.

Edited July 7, 2016 by harmony

[User Name]

Seattle had the choice, chose Miley. Case closed.

[mvp 78]

It is lovely this time of year in the Prairie of Prax...

[mvp 78]

Seattle had the choice, chose Miley. Case closed.

 

C'mon... We don't know that for 100% certain... Don't be hasty now! We must not rush to judgement.

[mvp 78]

@alexspeier Joe Kelly threw a shutout inning for Lowell (0H, BB, K) in his first relief appearance. 95-96 mph fastball, complemented w/85-86 slider.

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

Not.at.all.

 

Wanna know why? Because I actually actively engage in/create baseball discussion. You just jump in on active discussions to fan the flames when there's conflict. Not quite trollish, but right on the borderline.

 

You are so full of s*** it's not even funny.

 

You're the biggest troll I have seen on here.

[Bellhorn04]

You are so full of s*** it's not even funny.

 

You're the biggest troll I have seen on here.

 

Meanwhile you're calling other posters girls' names and saying they must have played with Barbie dolls when they were kids.

[User Name]

Dude definitely played with barbies.

[mvp 78]

Meanwhile you're calling other posters girls' names and saying they must have played with Barbie dolls when they were kids.

 

He clearly has gender issues.

[Spudboy]

you have started exactly 1 (one) non game thread thus far in 2016. "create" seems a bit disingenuous.

 

Creating discussion does not require starting a thread. User has been one of the guys initiating discussion and keeping the discussion going at Talksox for about 7 years.

 

You may not like him or his style, but it's hard not to see that he ads validity and voracity to the discussion here.

[Slasher9]

Creating discussion does not require starting a thread. User has been one of the guys initiating discussion and keeping the discussion going at Talksox for about 7 years.

 

You may not like him or his style, but it's hard not to see that he ads validity and voracity to the discussion here.

 

he definitely adds. he used the word create. semantics i suppose but i do get your point.

fair enough.

[User Name]

I don't create a lot of threads because I can usually find threads to continue relevant topics in. I don't like forum clutter, so why would I contribute to it?

[Slasher9]

I don't create a lot of threads because I can usually find threads to continue relevant topics in. I don't like forum clutter, so why would I contribute to it?

 

i just said i get the point. and fair enough.

[Jasonbay44]

We have the new Wade Miley in Sean O'Sullivan. They both suck and have beards.

[Kimmi]

I pointed this out last week but no one picked up on it. Wright has never gone over 140 something innings. That's it. Maybe he is fatigued? Maybe the two games pitched in rain and another two games where the thermometer was hovering around 100 F had something to do with it?

 

Judicious use of his fastball seems to be vital.

 

The thing is, no one, and I mean no one, other than another knuckler, has any idea what is going on with a knuckleballer. That has been confirmed by each team that has one, I believe.

 

I think that Wright is approaching uncharted waters and really does not know what to expect himself. I think that the Sox should be cautious with his innings. Farrell left him in about 1 inning too long last night and the box score reflect this.

 

I think one of the problems lately is that other teams have the scouting report on Wright's use of the fastball. IMO, he has become a bit too predictable in terms of when he's going to use it.

 

Also, Wright stated that he was tired. I believe he said something to the effect of how nice it would be to have the 4 days off during the all star break, though he's excited about going.

[Kimmi]

Cagey = shrewd.

 

OK, that's a definition of cagey that I was not aware of.

[Kimmi]

Nope, there's nothing normal about any of them.

 

Except for me. I'm normal.

[Kimmi]

http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2016/02/03/bradfo-show-clay-buchholz-thought-he-might-be-traded/

 

“I was actually on the phone with Wade Miley talking about the whole Seattle thing, because my name was involved in that, and obviously his name."

 

Of course his name was 'involved' in that. There is still nothing that says that the Mariners were given a choice of either one or the other. From everything I've read, the media speculated that the trade centered around Buchholz or Miley, but the media was not sure which one.

[Kimmi]

Thank you for offering my previously provided links to reports, none which state Seattle was given the choice between Wade Miley and Clay Buchholz.

 

To state that the Red Sox offered the Mariners Miley or Buchholz might be accurate ... or not. I have seen no information to confirm that one way or the other.

 

To state that it has been widely reported that the Red Sox offered the Mariners Miley or Buchholz is wrong.

 

I have been consistent in posting that I've seen no report that the Red Sox offered the Mariners the choice of Miley or Buchholz.

 

I have been consistent in posting that, if given the choice, I suspect Seattle preferred Miley over Buchholz.

 

100% accuracy in this post.

 

To state that the Mariners obviously did not want Buchholz is also wrong.

[Kimmi]

C'mon... We don't know that for 100% certain... Don't be hasty now! We must not rush to judgement.

 

I don't understand the snarkiness in this post.

 

Are you saying that it's okay to state something as fact when it's pure speculation?