Sox Pitching Staff Discussion

[User Name]

if you dont think that some of David Prices starts thus far this season have been as bad or as frustrating as some of Clays starts then you havent been watching the games.

 

Ah, the "you don't watch the games" defense, the final bastion of nonsensical arguments. I think we're done here.

[a700hitter]

it makes the same point as saying "if the manager has to give the ball to a pitcher for 1 game". of course the answer is Price. i mean, we did spend $217MM for an "Ace", right? you absolutely give the ball for 1 game to your "ace" and not the pitcher that you picked up a reasonable 1 year option on. right?

That is right, and that is how you compare players. They are not even close to the type of assets that can be evaluated with ROI.

[Slasher9]

is this a Price or a Clay start?

3.2 IP / 8 ER / 2BB / 5K / 2HR / 2HBP

[Slasher9]

Ah, the "you don't watch the games" defense, the final bastion of nonsensical arguments. I think we're done here.

 

not even close. we will be "done here' when the 2016 season is in the books and we can see what "value" clay has contributed to the team vs Price's contribution. or does BABIP say otherwise?

[Slasher9]

Ah, the "you don't watch the games" defense, the final bastion of nonsensical arguments. I think we're done here.

 

i guess this means you dont actually watch the games. BABIP.

[a700hitter]

That happens if you can't align "value" with the very specific dynamics of baseball economics.

There are so many contingencies and dynamics involved with baseball performance, roster building and roster budgeting, that any attempts to value any of it are woefully imprecise.

[User Name]

i guess this means you dont actually watch the games. BABIP.

 

No, it means I watch the games, but I'm also smart enough to differentiate between a stellar pitching having a bad month and a s***** pitcher being s*****. I suggest you focus less on the former, and more on the latter.

[Slasher9]

Some are close to that. This Buch vs. Price discussion isn't far off.

 

right. because none of their stats have looked remotely similar this year, right? Price hasn't been mediocre at all this season. got it.

[a700hitter]

if you dont think that some of David Prices starts thus far this season have been as bad or as frustrating as some of Clays starts then you havent been watching the games.

And David Ortiz has struck out several times this season just as Christian Vasquez has. Nothing can be concluded from that either.

[User Name]

There are so many contingencies and dynamics involved with baseball performance, roster building and roster budgeting, that any attempts to value any of it are woefully imprecise.

 

But better than making s*** up, which is what some uninformed people do. A uniform system is always better than random valuations.

[Slasher9]

No, it means I watch the games, but I'm also smart enough to differentiate between a stellar pitching having a bad month and a s***** pitcher being s*****. I suggest you focus less on the former, and more on the latter.

 

no. you have it completely reverse. i expect my "Ace" not to have a bad month. i expect him to pitch like the highest paid pitcher in baseball for the entire season. on the flip-side i expect my 1 year contract $13MM pitcher to pitch s**tty sometimes and good sometimes. try focusing on that.

[Slasher9]

And David Ortiz has struck out several times this season just as Christian Vasquez has. Nothing can be concluded from that either.

 

remind me again quantity of AB's per season by position players and quantity of GS by SP?

thats like saying a regular season baseball game is as important as a regular season football game.

[Slasher9]

There are so many contingencies and dynamics involved with baseball performance, roster building and roster budgeting, that any attempts to value any of it are woefully imprecise.

 

so then why are you complaining about Clays option being picked up?

[a700hitter]

But better than making s*** up, which is what some uninformed people do. A uniform system is always better than random valuations.

If it is known to be very imprecise and therefore unreliable, I am not so sure that it is better. Did you need to look at any metrics to conclude that Price is more valuable than Buch? Have you found any metrics that have contradicted that evaluation? I think the answer to both is probably "no".

[a700hitter]

so then why are you complaining about Clays option being picked up?

Where did you read that? I have said that the best way to maximize his value would have been to pick up his option and then trade him? Don't make up stuff.

[Slasher9]

But better than making s*** up, which is what some uninformed people do. A uniform system is always better than random valuations.

 

lol. what does this even mean? you just put a bunch of words together in a sentence that could mean anything. North Korea has a "uniform system". let's ask their citizens how that works for them.

[User Name]

no. you have it completely reverse. i expect my "Ace" not to have a bad month. i expect him to pitch like the highest paid pitcher in baseball for the entire season. on the flip-side i expect my 1 year contract $13MM pitcher to pitch s**tty sometimes and good sometimes. try focusing on that.

 

Bro, do you even logic? Like, seriously? Price has suffered fro bad Aprils his most of his career yet he's a Cy-Young winning, consistent elite starter. Buchholz hasn't provided more than 160 IP and above-average run prevention numbers in a season since 2010. Do you honestly believe it possible to compare the expected results of both, especially with Buchholz' underlying peripherals?

 

If you do, I have some bridges I have to sell you.

 

For those 13 million, the Red Sox could have had Doug Fister AND Rich Hill.

[User Name]

lol. what does this even mean? you just put a bunch of words together in a sentence that could mean anything. North Korea has a "uniform system". let's ask their citizens how that works for them.

 

If you don't understand what it means, why are you commenting on it?

[Slasher9]

Where did you read that? I have said that the best way to maximize his value would have been to pick up his option and then trade him? Don't make up stuff.

apologies for thinking otherwise.

[a700hitter]

remind me again quantity of AB's per season by position players and quantity of GS by SP?

thats like saying a regular season baseball game is as important as a regular season football game.

Less than a handful of starts proves nothing. Nothing.

[Slasher9]

Bro, do you even logic? Like, seriously? Price has suffered fro bad Aprils his most of his career yet he's a Cy-Young winning, consistent elite starter. Buchholz hasn't provided more than 160 IP and above-average run prevention numbers in a season since 2010. Do you honestly believe it possible to compare the expected results of both, especially with Buchholz' underlying peripherals?

 

If you do, I have some bridges I have to sell you.

 

For those 13 million, the Red Sox could have had Doug Fister AND Rich Hill.

 

show me an April that comes close to this one? now you are just repeating what you read off the interweb somewhere.

fister and hill. of course. again with the hindsight. let me guess you are a broncos fan, love the lightning and penguins, OKC and GSW are your boys. you used to be a big time Tiger Woods fan but not for about 4 years or so.

[mvp 78]

Yuge Broncos fan.

[Slasher9]

If you don't understand what it means, why are you commenting on it?

 

because:forum. and commenting on other peoples nonsense is kinda how they work?

[Slasher9]

Yuge Broncos fan.

 

i dont believe you.

[User Name]

because:forum. and commenting on other peoples nonsense is kinda how they work?

 

It can't be nonsense if you don't understand it. Educate yourself on what's being talked about first, make moronic statements later.

[sk7326]

no. you have it completely reverse. i expect my "Ace" not to have a bad month. i expect him to pitch like the highest paid pitcher in baseball for the entire season. on the flip-side i expect my 1 year contract $13MM pitcher to pitch s**tty sometimes and good sometimes. try focusing on that.

 

The greatest pitcher I ever saw in the greatest season I ever saw a pitcher have gave up 9 runs 3.2 innings to the Florida Marlins.

 

Bad starts happen. The better indicator on Price was noticing "holy crap, he's striking out a ton of guys", and betting on him figuring the rest of the stuff out.

[Slasher9]

is this a Price or a Clay start?

3.2 IP / 8 ER / 2BB / 5K / 2HR / 2HBP

 

no guesses?

how about this one....should be easier:

4.2 IP / 6 ER / 3BB / 4K

[a700hitter]

It can't be nonsense if you don't understand it. Educate yourself on what's being talked about first, make moronic statements later.

Psst, calm down. We can expose the foolishness of his argument with dispassionate logic.

 

p.s. I feel your frustration.

[Slasher9]

The greatest pitcher I ever saw in the greatest season I ever saw a pitcher have gave up 9 runs 3.2 innings to the Florida Marlins.

 

Bad starts happen. The better indicator on Price was noticing "holy crap, he's striking out a ton of guys", and betting on him figuring the rest of the stuff out.

his last 2 starts are very much encouraging on what we signed up for 7 years.

[User Name]

show me an April that comes close to this one? now you are just repeating what you read off the interweb somewhere.

fister and hill. of course. again with the hindsight. let me guess you are a broncos fan, love the lightning and penguins, OKC and GSW are your boys. you used to be a big time Tiger Woods fan but not for about 4 years or so.

 

I am a Red Sox, Lakers, Patriots fan who does not give a s*** about golf.

 

Also, I form my own opinions, condense my own thoughts and actually understand how the stats I cite work. Now, you can continue being a f***ing moron and indulging in personal attacks and stupid psychoanalysis attempts, or we can focus on the baseball aspect of the discussion. Focus on the subject, not me.

 

Also, there's no "hindsight" involved. I've been saying since the off-season that they needed another pitcher, and was fine with them picking up Buch's option then trading him. In fact, I have said numerous times they should have traded him instead of Miley, if possible.