Benintendi watch

[Hugh2]

Post season... a La Bogaerts. That's when we see him.

 

At this point in the 2013 season Bogaerts was in Portland, but he had 100 games under his belt...not 3. Also I think Bogaerts had/has a higher offensive ceiling than someone like Benintendi who is more of a moderately high ceiling high floor guy. I'm not saying he can't do it, but if he's going to be there in October he has to be there in August and we are assuming he's going to jump 2 more levels in 2 months after only playing 3 games above A ball.

[User Name]

In what planet did Bogaerts had a higher offensive ceiling than Benintendi, per scoutings and projections?

[Emp9]

At this point in the 2013 season Bogaerts was in Portland, but he had 100 games under his belt...not 3. Also I think Bogaerts had/has a higher offensive ceiling than someone like Benintendi who is more of a moderately high ceiling high floor guy. I'm not saying he can't do it, but if he's going to be there in October he has to be there in August and we are assuming he's going to jump 2 more levels in 2 months after only playing 3 games above A ball.

 

I didn't believe when I wrote it either. Just a day dream. A hyperbolic day dream is all : )

[MaineSox12]

Now that Brock Holt is on the DL, and not performing very well before then, does Benintendi get a shot sooner rather than later? I hope that the Sox don't rush this guy to the majors. Let him continue to develop in the minors, and he can be our left fielder of the future. After calling up Swihart as opposed to Castillo for tonight's game, it is clear that the organization has all but given up on him. I still think Swihart is the catcher of the future while Vazquez will be a very very good backup, perhaps a personal catcher for a starting pitcher down the road. Therefore, there is a hole in left field that I think should be filled by Benintendi, just not this year

[Dojji]

Benintendi was just promoted to Portland and is still adjusting to AA pitching. The idea that he's ready in any way to play the game at the big league level now is incredibly ludicrous. If he plays this year it will be in September.

[Hugh2]

In what planet did Bogaerts had a higher offensive ceiling than Benintendi, per scoutings and projections?

 

Planet earth.

[User Name]

I want to see proof of this if possible. Bogaerts was lauded as a guy with above-average power and overall offense for a shortstop, which is the big caveat. Benintendi is an OF with a very high ceiling in all offensive categories. In fact, he profiles very similarly to Bogaerts with the added bonus of above-average speed. The only reason why Bogaerts was better regarded than Benintendi is right now (overall) is because he played SS. Had Benintendi been a SS and Bogaerts an OF, we would be having this exact same conversation but the other way around right now.

[Hugh2]

I want to see proof of this if possible. Bogaerts was lauded as a guy with above-average power and overall offense for a shortstop, which is the big caveat. Benintendi is an OF with a very high ceiling in all offensive categories. In fact, he profiles very similarly to Bogaerts with the added bonus of above-average speed. The only reason why Bogaerts was better regarded than Benintendi is right now (overall) is because he played SS. Had Benintendi been a SS and Bogaerts an OF, we would be having this exact same conversation but the other way around right now.

 

No we wouldn't, if anything Benintendi is more heralded as an up the middle defender and Bogaerts was considered an offense first SS. This is 2016 and you have google, it's not a secret. When Bogaerts was at this stage of his development he was younger than Benintendi and the #2 prospect in all of baseball. Benintendi is a really really really highly regarded prospect but 2013 Bogaerts > 2016 Benintendi all day. Andrew has the #7 pick expectations that never came with Xander. If a 20 year old Xander entered the draft as an eligible sophomore I think he'd be a consensus #1 pick.

Edited May 22, 2016 by A Red Sox fan named Hugh

[User Name]

No we wouldn't, if anything Benintendi is more heralded as an up the middle defender and Bogaerts was considered an offense first SS. This is 2016 and you have google, it's not a secret. When Bogaerts was at this stage of his development he was younger than Benintendi and the #2 prospect in all of baseball. Benintendi is a really really really highly regarded prospect but 2013 Bogaerts > 2016 Benintendi all day. Andrew has the #7 pick expectations that never came with Xander. If a 20 year old Xander entered the draft as an eligible sophomore I think he'd be a consensus #1 pick.

 

Yes, because Xander played SS, the most difficult position to find consistent offense in besides catcher. Not all up the middle positions were created the same. Offense-first SS or not, it's his position (and the likelyhood of staying there) that supported a good chunk of his status as a top prospect. As you said, it's 2016, so it's not that hard to find and read the scouting reports.

[User Name]

The streak attests to Benintendi’s advanced skill as a hitter. Evaluators from two American League organizations gave the 21-year-old a grade of 70 — on a scale of 20-80 — for his ability as a pure hitter, a grade usually reserved for potential All-Stars and batting titlists.

 

 

“In seven years,” said one of the evaluators, “I have only put four 70/80 final grades on position players I saw in A ball: [Mike] Trout, [bryce] Harper, [Mookie] Betts, and Benintendi.”

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2016/04/28/andrew-benintendi-yoan-moncada-tearing-carolina-league/RjvFdJiXVZ6EOsKpVFq9gO/story.html

[Hugh2]

Yes, because Xander played SS, the most difficult position to find consistent offense in besides catcher. Not all up the middle positions were created the same. Offense-first SS or not, it's his position (and the likelyhood of staying there) that supported a good chunk of his status as a top prospect. As you said, it's 2016, so it's not that hard to find and read the scouting reports.

 

Centerfield is pretty important too, and there was a much larger consensus that Bogaerts couldn't stick at SS and would have to move to 3rd. I follow the minors more than the majors, I read just about every scouting organization there is. Anyone who has paid attention to milb talent the past few years will tell you Bogaerts had more hype. You want proof? #2 prospect in baseball, people were saying he had an MVP ceiling in 2013, people are saying Benitendi has an ALL star ceiling.

 

Now maybe Bogaerts power never comes and Benintendi exceeds Bogaerts. But Bogaerts had a perceived higher ceiling in 2013 than Benitendi does now. And I'd argue Bogaerts still does.

[User Name]

Centerfield is pretty important too, and there was a much larger consensus that Bogaerts couldn't stick at SS and would have to move to 3rd. I follow the minors more than the majors, I read just about every scouting organization there is. Anyone who has paid attention to milb talent the past few years will tell you Bogaerts had more hype. You want proof? #2 prospect in baseball, people were saying he had an MVP ceiling in 2013, people are saying Benitendi has an ALL star ceiling.

 

Now maybe Bogaerts power never comes and Benintendi exceeds Bogaerts. But Bogaerts had a perceived higher ceiling in 2013 than Benitendi does now. And I'd argue Bogaerts still does.

 

Yes, because his offensive contributions are much more valuable because of the position that he plays. That is the whole point.

 

From 2013-today, the average SS has produced a .696 OPS.

 

From 2013-today, the average CF has produced a .722 OPS, and the total is even higher for overall OF (Benintendi may end up a LF which also further impacts his prospect ranking).

 

At age 21, Bogaerts had a 60 hit/70 powe/50 run/65 overall ranking.

 

Benintendi currently sports a 70 overall rating with 70 hit/50 power/60 run.

[moonslav59]

Actually, many scouts had Bogey's likely landing place at 3B.

[Dojji]

Bogaerts was not a consensus to stick at SS. No one said it was impossible, but a lot of people predicted he'd eventually have to move to the corners. And his offensive ceiling was considered very high from day 1. There were somewhat inappropriate comparisons to Nomar Garciaparra.

 

bogaerts was and is considered to have 25-30 HR power potential if he hits his peak. It's hard to remember sometimes considering how much baseball he has under his belt that Bogaerts is still just 23 and has some filling out ahead of him. What we have now is an incredibly valuable ballplayer. what we have now is not the highest Bogaerts might aspire to, and that's exciting.

 

The fact of the matter is that no matter where bogaerts put up his current numbers he'd be a regular All-Star candidate at the very least. Shortstop just makes all this extra super ultra exciting (and expensive when contract time rolls around). If Benintendi comes close to delivering the same performance in the outfield he'll be quite welcome here regardless of meaningless questions about which of two different players at different positions had the higher ceiling.

Edited May 22, 2016 by Dojji

[User Name]

Oh, so Red Sox player discussion on a Red-Sox related website regarding prospects' ceilings is meaningless? Perhaps it would be better if we discussed Tug Hulett?

[User Name]

Actually, many scouts had Bogey's likely landing place at 3B.

 

After several years at SS. He was ranked and scouted as a SS, and was presented in all scouting reports as a SS. His eventual landing spot is not a factor in the discussion of his prospect rankings.

[Hugh2]

Baloney! Bogaerts reached MLB and had a .900 ops in playoffs as a 20 year old. You don't do that if you're just good with bat but can play short.

 

I get and agree that all things considered a SS that can hit is more valuable than another position player. But we are comparing a SS to a CFer not a corner outfielder, or a first baseman. Also Bogaerts was regarded as having an elite bat coming up for any position, hence the consensus top 5 prospect status and reaching of MLB by age 20.

 

It's not like the margin is huge between the two players. But making a statement that I must be on a different planet to say Bogaerts had a higher ceiling than Benintendi at his age is ludicrous. Bogaerts helped the Sox win a World Series while Benitendi hasn't done anything above A-ball.

 

Now it's not Benny's fault the Sox held him back a tad and I think he's a stud but Bogaerts mastered A ball when he was 18-19.

 

And if we do put in defense (which we should) and we make the argument current the chasm widens. Because Bogaerts is doing it at the MLB level and playing above average SS.

[Bellhorn04]

Baloney! Bogaerts reached MLB and had a .900 ops in playoffs as a 20 year old. You don't do that if you're just good with bat but can play short.

 

In 34 plate appearances - about 8 full games. In the regular season he had a .684 OPS in 50 plate appearances. Both tiny samples.

[User Name]

In 34 plate appearances - about 8 full games. In the regular season he had a .684 OPS in 50 plate appearances. Both tiny samples.

 

Came here to post this.

[User Name]

Baloney! Bogaerts reached MLB and had a .900 ops in playoffs as a 20 year old. You don't do that if you're just good with bat but can play short.

 

I get and agree that all things considered a SS that can hit is more valuable than another position player. But we are comparing a SS to a CFer not a corner outfielder, or a first baseman. Also Bogaerts was regarded as having an elite bat coming up for any position, hence the consensus top 5 prospect status and reaching of MLB by age 20.

 

It's not like the margin is huge between the two players. But making a statement that I must be on a different planet to say Bogaerts had a higher ceiling than Benintendi at his age is ludicrous. Bogaerts helped the Sox win a World Series while Benitendi hasn't done anything above A-ball.

 

Now it's not Benny's fault the Sox held him back a tad and I think he's a stud but Bogaerts mastered A ball when he was 18-19.

 

And if we do put in defense (which we should) and we make the argument current the chasm widens. Because Bogaerts is doing it at the MLB level and playing above average SS.

 

Are you a talent evaluator? Because people who do this for a living see Benintendi as a 70-overall player, which is extremely rare.

 

The point of contention is, what makes some of you think you can invalidate years of scouting with your opinions?

[Hugh2]

I follow the minor leagues twice as much as the big league club, I read every article on BA, BP, FG, anything from Law, Cooper, Mayo, Sickels, badler and many more. I'm not some Joe just reading MiLb box scores forming an opinion.

 

That's 1 guy, 1 scout slapping a 70 on him, and correct me if I'm wrong it that was just on his hit tool. One scout on one tool? Sox prospects had an 80 slapped on Bogaerts, and I always trust them more on sox players because they have more eyes on our own guys. Benitendi is a consensus top 25 guy while Bogaerts was #2. If scouts thought Benitendi was an all around 70 player he'd be a consensus top 5, top 3 player in all of baseball.

[User Name]

Overall 70, three talent evaluators, not just the hit tool.

 

You are just some Joe regurgitating opinions from others, just like me, because none of us are talent evaluators. However, if you follow the minors as much as you say you do but can't completely grasp the concept of the impact position has on the overall standing on a prospect, we're just arguing for the sake of arguing here.

 

The point is, Benintendi's a highly rated offensive prospect on his own, who'd be a top five guy right now if he played shortstop.

 

The fact that you "read all the articles" does not make you an authority on prospect evaluation. My point of contention continues to be how your opinion invalidates all of the data/scouting on, and current production of Benintendi.

[Dojji]

i don't find it useful to directly compare ceiling on prospects that are not competing for the same position no, and analyses of any one prospect's potential are not at all intended to be used in that way.

 

Benintendi is an outfielder and both his role and his potential are judged on his ability to fill the role of an outfielder. Comparing an infielder directly to an outfielder isn't as dumb as say comparing a infielder and a catcher or a DHand a pitchet, but it still has too many translation errors to yield an unambiguous answer

 

It is enough for me that Benintendi has a very very high ceiling without squabbling about who else he may or may not be somehow ''better'' than

 

also i do feel it bears repeating that as good as Bogaerts is playing right now he still has an upper ceiling of his own that at 23 he still has plenty of time to reach. Bogaerts has the potential to be a superstar, one of the top 4 or 5 best players in the league in the next 4-5 years, Benintendi could fall way way short on that and still realize a very impressive career for himself.

[User Name]

It's a legitimate discussion for a couple of reasons: First, to point just what a special core of young talent the Red Sox have amassed, and second, to justify the Benintendi hype. A lot of people are very very high on the kid, and since this is a place to discuss Red Sox prospects, it's good to see where the hype comes from.

 

The point about Xander not reaching his power portential is valid. But to ignite further discussion, I am going to throw this out there: Mookie Betts is the true building block of the Sox' lineup. Thoughts?

[CliffKlowers]

Is NESN going to be broadcasting any Pawsox or Seawolves games this season like they did in previous years. I believe that MLB-TV also has a minor league package that one can subscribe to for someting like $80 per season that will have some games on.

[Dojji]

It's a legitimate discussion for a couple of reasons: First, to point just what a special core of young talent the Red Sox have amassed, and second, to justify the Benintendi hype. A lot of people are very very high on the kid, and since this is a place to discuss Red Sox prospects, it's good to see where the hype comes from.

 

The point about Xander not reaching his power portential is valid. But to ignite further discussion, I am going to throw this out there: Mookie Betts is the true building block of the Sox' lineup. Thoughts?

 

Implying that there is only one true building block? Our Killer B's (Bogaerts, Betts, Bradley) are jointly the true building block. If Benintendi wants to join the B-hive, he's welcome.

[User Name]

Implying that there is only one true building block? Our Killer B's (Bogaerts, Betts, Bradley) are jointly the true building block. If Benintendi wants to join the B-hive, he's welcome.

 

In simpler terms: Implying he's the best of a (very deep) young core.

[Spudboy]

In simpler terms: Implying he's the best of a (very deep) young core.

 

I'll bite.

 

I think Betts is truly a five tool player. I'd argue that his skill set is more complete and more refined at this point.

[a700hitter]

I'll bite.

 

I think Betts is truly a five tool player. I'd argue that his skill set is more complete and more refined at this point.

Not a bad pick, but Bogaerts is right there with Betts. He will put up over 200 hits this season and he could win the batting title

[Spudboy]

Not a bad pick, but Bogaerts is right there with Betts. He will put up over 200 hits this season and he could win the batting title

 

I certainly respect that. I just see Betts speed as something Bogey can not bring.