A Realistic View at 2016

[Emp9]

I'd still rather take my chances w/ ERod than Santana.

[mvp 78]

This is the same situation as James Shields. He's expensive and getting towards the mid 30s.

 

Nope. Shields blows this year. Santana is the same pitcher he's always been.

[Dojji]

What would you pay for Santana? It's going to cost some kind of talent to complete a trade for this guy, and we can't count on Minnesota to be content to take our garbage. I'm not convinced Buchholz has any value at all right now.

[Bellhorn04]

What would you pay for Santana? It's going to cost some kind of talent to complete a trade for this guy, and we can't count on Minnesota to be content to take our garbage. I'm not convinced Buchholz has any value at all right now.

 

The idea that Minnesota would accept only Buch in return is humorous.

[SoxnCycles]

The idea that Minnesota would accept only Buch in return is humorous.

 

Yeah, that's not happening.

But, they're not getting any top prospects either.

 

I hope...

[Slasher9]

But someone needs to step up to make up for Price sucking

 

lucky for him S WRight and R Porcello have been acelike this season. we really just need Price to pitch like a #3 instead of a 4/5....

[Slasher9]

I'd still rather take my chances w/ ERod than Santana.

 

In!

[moonslav59]

The idea that Minnesota would accept only Buch in return is humorous.

 

There's talk they may pay part of Santana's contract. By taking on Buch's $6M owed this year, plus I'm assuming a decent prospect, they'd be doing just that. It would also save us the luxury tax money on Buch's contract this year.

[Kimmi]

I'd still rather take my chances w/ ERod than Santana.

 

Perhaps, but if Dombrowski can make an inexpensive depth move, then I'm all for that. Not for a PED user though.

[moonslav59]

Perhaps, but if Dombrowski can make an inexpensive depth move, then I'm all for that. Not for a PED user though.

 

...and do we want to commit $26M over the next 2 years, perhaps at the expense of us getting someone better this winter?

[SoxnCycles]

...and do we want to commit $26M over the next 2 years, perhaps at the expense of us getting someone better this winter?

 

Nope.

[Dojji]

...and do we want to commit $26M over the next 2 years, perhaps at the expense of us getting someone better this winter?

 

Considering it's looking like there isn't going to BE someone better available this winter, especially for a price as reasonable as $13M/year or less? Yes we do.

 

People who think Santana is in any way overpaid as a lower middle of the rotation starter at $13M/year, consider the Price contract and consider what that means for middle echelon professionals. The price for pitching is hideously inflated thanks to low supply as well as the fact that teams now have all that extra media money burning a hole in their pockets. I don't think you get Santana himself for that little money if he hits the market right now, I think he goes for at least $15-18M/year on the open market.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Dojji

[moonslav59]

Considering it's looking like there isn't going to BE someone better available this winter, especially for a price as reasonable as $13M/year or less? Yes we do.

 

People who think Santana is in any way overpaid as a lower middle of the rotation starter at $13M/year, consider the Price contract and consider what that means for middle echelon professionals. The price for pitching is hideously inflated thanks to low supply as well as the fact that teams now have all that extra media money burning a hole in their pockets. I don't think you get Santana himself for that little money if he hits the market right now, I think he goes for at least $15-18M/year on the open market.

 

It's not about Santana being overpaid or not. It's about the fact that we should not seek to rebuild our future rotation by acquiring 4/5 slot SP'ers, even if the "price is right".

 

I get the value of getting Santana for this year. Our 7.00+ ERA from our 4/5 slot is alarmingly horrible, but my hopes are higher than Santana for 2017 and 2018.

 

I know the cost will be higher, but are needs are higher than a Santana addition.

[Dojji]

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/league-info/potential-free-agents-for-2017/

 

Have at it. Find the guys that are clearly superior gambles to Santana over the next 2 seasons.

 

The closest guy I see is R. A. dickey. I wouldn't mind Dickey, but I have a thing about signing 42 year olds to multiyear contracts.

[moonslav59]

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/league-info/potential-free-agents-for-2017/

 

Have at it. Find the guys that are clearly superior gambles to Santana over the next 2 seasons.

 

The closest guy I see is R. A. dickey. I wouldn't mind Dickey, but I have a thing about signing 42 year olds to multiyear contracts.

 

Free agency is not the only way to acquire top starters.

 

I admit, the FA SP'er market is a dump this winter, but we have some players we can part with that should be able to allow us to acquire a better SP'er than Santana.

[Emp9]

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/league-info/potential-free-agents-for-2017/

 

Have at it. Find the guys that are clearly superior gambles to Santana over the next 2 seasons.

 

The closest guy I see is R. A. dickey. I wouldn't mind Dickey, but I have a thing about signing 42 year olds to multiyear contracts.

 

Oooh ... Kenley Jansen is an off-season FA? I hope we go after him. I like the list of BP arms, Starters???? Maybe Moore and that's probly it.

[moonslav59]

I'm probably missing some guys, but here are some SP'ers I remember being traded last winter:

 

Frankie Montas

Vince Velasquez

Shelby Miller

Dan Strally

Jeremy Hellickson

John Niese

Nathan Karns

Drew Pomeranz

Adam Warren

Wade Miley

 

 

 

[moonslav59]

Oooh ... Kenley Jansen is an off-season FA? I hope we go after him. I like the list of BP arms, Starters???? Maybe Moore and that's probly it.

 

Moore has a team option. He will not be a FA, but he may be traded.

[Emp9]

Moore has a team option. He will not be a FA, but he may be traded.

 

Thanx. So nobody then lol:(

[Emp9]

Let's just stock-up on BP arms in Free Agency & hopefully we can make trade for a bonafide totr SP. I'll throw in Pomeranz on the right deal for a #1 or #2.

[moonslav59]

Let's just stock-up on BP arms in Free Agency & hopefully we can make trade for a bonafide totr SP. I'll throw in Pomeranz on the right deal for a #1 or #2.

 

Never really thought of that idea, but it may work. Add some players/prospects like Swihart and/or Devers plus maybe an IF'er like Marrero, Rutledge, Hernandez or Holt.

[moonslav59]

I'd kind of prefer keeping the low cost Pomeranz as our 5th starter with ERod as the competition for the 5/6 slot. That's ideal.

 

I'd love to see us acquire a solid #2, but a top #3 slot would be nice as well. I know that will be costly, and maybe too costly to make it happen. If we can't get another quality SP'er, then keeping Pomeranz and all other options is essential.

[Emp9]

Are the White Sox sellers yet? I'm give them Pom, ERod, & Devers for Sale (w/ the hopes of extending him, but he has two team options for 2018 & 2019).

 

[Dojji]

Let's just stock-up on BP arms in Free Agency & hopefully we can make trade for a bonafide totr SP. I'll throw in Pomeranz on the right deal for a #1 or #2.

 

With so few free agents as an alternative, the price for any trade is going to be through the roof. The cost in talent to bring a SP in in trade is going to have to be balanced in light of the fact that everyone who needs a starter (and every team not actively tanking for draft picks will be buyers in the offseason) will be trying to get one in that way.

 

Frankly I'd rather use our financial strength as the key asset to expand our rotation rather than waiting for an offseason where the only way to do the same thing would be to eat even further our field of top prospects. A better reason not to go after Santana is the possibility that the Twins may think they need to maximize their return on the guy and fail to make a reasonable price.

 

That said, I'm actually warming to the idea of 1-and-an-option for Dickey if he's interested. You want durable, no one's more durable than R. A. Dickey, and that's a good reason to take a chance on a 42 year old as long as he's good with a shorter contract. A rotation of Price-Wright-Dickey-Porcello Pomeranz should be pretty darn tough to deal with.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Dojji

[Jasonbay44]

Are the White Sox sellers yet? I'm give them Pom, ERod, & Devers for Sale (w/ the hopes of extending him, but he has two team options for 2018 & 2019).

 

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I don't see the White Sox moving Sale without getting Moncada and/or Beinitendi.

[Emp9]

I don't see the White Sox moving Sale without getting Moncada and/or Beinitendi.

 

Yeah you probably right.

[moonslav59]

I don't see the White Sox moving Sale without getting Moncada and/or Beinitendi.

 

Maybe if we throw everything else at them like....

 

Swihart, Devers, Kopech, Tavis and one from Holt/Hernadez/Kelly/Owens/Johnson,

 

but probably they wan't take that either.

 

I am almost at the point of liking Quintana better.

 

Sale has 3.4 years left at: 16:$9.15M, 17:$12M, 18:$12.5M club option ($1M buyout), 19:$13.5M club option ($1M buyout)

 

Quintana has 4.4 years: 16:$3.8M, 17:$6M, 18:$8.35M, 19:$10.5M club option ($1M buyout), 20:$10.5M club option ($1M buyout)

 

[Kimmi]

...and do we want to commit $26M over the next 2 years, perhaps at the expense of us getting someone better this winter?

 

Probably not, but that all depends on the cost of that someone better. I am counting on ERod to be a solid contributor to our rotation next season and beyond. While any of us would love to add the likes of Sale or Quintana, at this point I don't think the team needs to add one. I do think it's a good idea to add someone like Santana for depth and insurance, and I don't think his price is unreasonable.

[Kimmi]

Let's just stock-up on BP arms in Free Agency & hopefully we can make trade for a bonafide totr SP. I'll throw in Pomeranz on the right deal for a #1 or #2.

 

I think we should stock up on BP arms, and we might be okay with our current rotation.

[d-money]

I think we should stock up on BP arms, and we might be okay with our current rotation.

 

Eduardo Rodriguez and Pomeranz are the wildcards here. They need to pitch well. I am anxiously awaiting pomeranz's second start.