A Realistic View at 2016

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

Well put, Slash. This is where I am too, most especially the part I edited to bold print.

 

A short time ago Babe suggested that Nomar had used PED's during his career and challenged us to be "more informed" before we opined that Nomar was "clean". So I did. And I found... suggestions/suspicions but no proof, no failed tests. Bear with me... I'm going someplace with this....

 

What I DID find was Nomar saying that some players asked to be listed as testing positive even though they weren't using PED's in order to bring the percentage of positive tests to the threshold where MLB would investigate usage. I'd never heard that before. Does that sound familiar to anyone else?

 

Nonsense, it was your boy slasher who said nomar did PEDs.

 

I wish for once that you would be able to get your facts straight.

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

When you can tell me what Ortiz failed for when it was a banned substance I will take the stance that I don't want him on my team. No ped users on my team is my stance. You don't need to try and explain how I'm "wrong". You can have your own stance and welcome all the cheaters to the sox if you want. That ain't me.

 

You are a flip flopper!!

 

On the boegarts vs nomar thread you said nomar was an obvious PED user.

 

Please tell me what exactly he tested positive for and when he served his suspension??!!

 

Kinda blows your defense of papi out of the water.

[moonslav59]

The Sox are in need of backup, righty/lefty subs and pinch hitters now. Both Holt and Swihart have shown the ability to play at the major league level and might have had an impact in a game like last night with the bases loaded and 0 outs. I wouldn't let Moncada or Benintendi go either as they are likely to be brought up in August. I would give up Devers, Owens or Johnson (not both), and maybe 2 or 3 of our mid level prospects. If that isn't enough then we will need to go to the free agent list.

 

There's nobody on this winter's FA list.

 

You have to give to get, and sometimes it hurts to give alot, and sometimes you get it wrong.

 

I'm fine with taking the long look and not trading Moncada, Swihart, Espinoza and Benintendi, but it's going to be hard to acquire a difference maker SP'er, stay near the luxury tax limit and be the favorites to win the championship this year or next (without Papi).

 

The choice has to be made, and like I've said. I'm happy either way- just don't play it half way by trading just Devers and scraps for a two month rental of questionable top quality.

 

I think when you look at our top 4 prospects, trading Swihart (with Devers) makes the most sense. Our biggest needs both now and going forward seem to be ,,,

 

SP (Espinoza)

3B/1B/DH (Moncada)

LF (Benintendi

 

While Devers plays 1B, he's too far away.

 

While Swihart apparently can play LF, his greater value is to a team that doesn't have a good catcher.

 

Add Travis, Kopech, owens, Johnson, Chavis and so on and maybe we can get more than just a decent 2 month rental.

 

We need to get a pitcher under team control for over 3 years.

[Slasher9]

You are a flip flopper!!

 

On the boegarts vs nomar thread you said nomar was an obvious PED user.

 

Please tell me what exactly he tested positive for and when he served his suspension??!!

 

Kinda blows your defense of papi out of the water.

 

no it doesn't. there is nothing about ortiz' game or body that says PED's to me. nothing.

nomar is a yes for me based on how quickly his body broke down and of course the SI cover was kind of suspicious.

i can have a view on one and a different view on the other. but please feel free to tell me more what i think.

[S5Dewey]

Nonsense, it was your boy slasher who said nomar did PEDs.

 

I wish for once that you would be able to get your facts straight.

 

Welcome back!

 

So... are you saying that you didn't say, " There is actually medical evidence that proves Nomar took PEDs without a shred of doubt. Do a little homework before you say "none." Maybe none "that you heard of.""?

[moonslav59]

I wish we could keep this thread about the Red Sox and not get into personal issues.

[a700hitter]

Welcome back!

 

So... are you saying that you didn't say, " There is actually medical evidence that proves Nomar took PEDs without a shred of doubt. Do a little homework before you say "none." Maybe none "that you heard of.""?

By all means present the evidence. Until I see some incontrovertible evidence, it is just a smear.

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

Welcome back!

 

So... are you saying that you didn't say, " There is actually medical evidence that proves Nomar took PEDs without a shred of doubt. Do a little homework before you say "none." Maybe none "that you heard of.""?

 

Please show me that post because it doesn't exist.

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

no it doesn't. there is nothing about ortiz' game or body that says PED's to me. nothing.

nomar is a yes for me based on how quickly his body broke down and of course the SI cover was kind of suspicious.

i can have a view on one and a different view on the other. but please feel free to tell me more what i think.

 

Lol, look at papi's picture when he played for the Twins!!

 

But your defense of papi has always been " show me what he tested positive for and when he served the suspension". Yet you say something different when it comes to nomar.

 

Like a poster said earlier, at least be consistent.

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

I wish we could keep this thread about the Red Sox and not get into personal issues.

 

And we wish you would quit whining about the kimbrel trade yet you seem to bring it up every other day.

[Spudboy]

By all means present the evidence. Until I see some incontrovertible evidence, it is just a smear.

 

No one can. It does not exist.

 

If real evidence of Nomar juicing did exist I am sure that someone would have come forward with it by now.

[moonslav59]

At least I'm whining about a baseball topic, instead of whining about a person whining.

[a700hitter]

Lol, look at papi's picture when he played for the Twins!!

 

But your defense of papi has always been " show me what he tested positive for and when he served the suspension". Yet you say something different when it comes to nomar.

 

Like a poster said earlier, at least be consistent.

please Babe, cut the crap. Half of your so-called dynasty of the 90's had to pull the needles out of their asses while they were in the on deck circle.

[Spudboy]

Lol, look at papi's picture when he played for the Twins!!

But your defense of papi has always been " show me what he tested positive for and when he served the suspension". Yet you say something different when it comes to nomar.

 

Like a poster said earlier, at least be consistent.

 

I did just that while the Sox were in Minnesota. Ortiz looked younger and part of it was that he looked thinner. Do you think that 13 years of age and working out could effect changes in his appearance?

 

I'm not saying that Ortiz did not juice. I have no way of knowing that. But his change in appearance, much like Nomar on the SI cover, does not provide evidence of PED use.

 

I'm a Sox fan, but I can be objective.

[a700hitter]

I did just that while the Sox were in Minnesota. Ortiz looked younger and part of it was that he looked thinner. Do you think that 13 years of age and working out could effect changes in his appearance?

 

I'm not saying that Ortiz did not juice. I have no way of knowing that. But his change in appearance, much like Nomar on the SI cover, does not provide evidence of PED use.

 

I'm a Sox fan, but I can be objective.

jeter looked different at the end of his career from his rookie year-- proof of juicing. Btw Spud, you are bigger now than when you were 20-- cheater!

[Spudboy]

jeter looked different at the end of his career from his rookie year-- proof of juicing. Btw Spud, you are bigger now than when you were 20-- cheater!

 

My downfall was not PEDs.

 

No, mine was pussy and the lifestyle that came with it.

 

Before I started living with women I would ride my dirt bike often and was always in shape ( more or less ). Once I started living with women it was work, f***, eat, and sleep. Repeat.

 

Now I am blissfully rotund!

[a700hitter]

my downfall was not peds.

 

No, mine was pussy and the lifestyle that came with it.

 

Before i started living with women i would ride my dirt bike often and was always in shape ( more or less ). Once i started living with women it was work, f***, eat, and sleep. Repeat.

 

Now i am blissfully rotund!

lol!

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

At least I'm whining about a baseball topic, instead of whining about a person whining.

 

Well, we were discussing our opinions on nomar and papi's PED use. No whining until you chimed in.

[a700hitter]

My downfall was not PEDs.

 

No, mine was pussy and the lifestyle that came with it.

 

Before I started living with women I would ride my dirt bike often and was always in shape ( more or less ). Once I started living with women it was work, f***, eat, and sleep. Repeat.

 

Now I am blissfully rotund!

i blame having children for my weight gain!

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

please Babe, cut the crap. Half of your so-called dynasty of the 90's had to pull the needles out of their asses while they were in the on deck circle.

 

But I'm not in denial.

 

(And I don't mean a river in Egypt)

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

I did just that while the Sox were in Minnesota. Ortiz looked younger and part of it was that he looked thinner. Do you think that 13 years of age and working out could effect changes in his appearance?

 

I'm not saying that Ortiz did not juice. I have no way of knowing that. But his change in appearance, much like Nomar on the SI cover, does not provide evidence of PED use.

 

I'm a Sox fan, but I can be objective.

 

He also was consistently low 100's OPS+ while with the Twins then consistently 140 OPS+ and higher with the sawx.

[Slasher9]

Lol, look at papi's picture when he played for the Twins!!

 

But your defense of papi has always been " show me what he tested positive for and when he served the suspension". Yet you say something different when it comes to nomar.

 

Like a poster said earlier, at least be consistent.

they are two different people. and i can believe whatever i want about each of them. to me one has zero to do with the other.

i can believe Nomar juiced and be wrong. I am not asking for proof. you can believe David Ortiz juiced and be wrong. i am asking you for proof.

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

they are two different people. and i can believe whatever i want about each of them. to me one has zero to do with the other.

i can believe Nomar juiced and be wrong. I am not asking for proof. you can believe David Ortiz juiced and be wrong. i am asking you for proof.

 

Like I said, flip flopper.

[User Name]

i blame having children for my weight gain!

 

I blame delicious food.....wait, that did not come out right?

[User Name]

He also was consistently low 100's OPS+ while with the Twins then consistently 140 OPS+ and higher with the sawx.

 

OPS+ accounts for league, and the offensive bar was much higher back then. Try another stat.

[mvp 78]

I'll never be as lean as I was in 2002, but that's because I can now afford more than just ramen.

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

He also was consistently low 100's OPS+ while with the Twins then consistently 140 OPS+ and higher with the sawx.

 

His SLG% was usually mid .400's with the Twinkies and consistently mid .500's and higher with the sawx.

[moonslav59]

Well, we were discussing our opinions on nomar and papi's PED use. No whining until you chimed in.

 

I was talking about people arguing about "he said-she said" ad nauseum, not the Nomar-PED issue.

 

Please try to keep up.

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

I was talking about people arguing about "he said-she said" ad nauseum, not the Nomar-PED issue.

 

Please try to keep up.

 

Well, it was relevant to the discussion when one of the posters has one set of rules for determining Player A's PED use and another set of rules for determining Player B's PED use.

 

Please try to keep up.

[moonslav59]

His SLG% was usually mid .400's with the Twinkies and consistently mid .500's and higher with the sawx.

 

He did rise to .475 and .500 his final two years with MN.

 

Sure, one could use is big increase in SLG% as evidence for PED use, but many players improve their SLG% after age 25/26 without PED use.

 

Note: Papi did hit 18 HRs in just 303 ABs in 2001 with MN and 20 HRs in 412 ABs in 2002 with MN. If you pro-rate those HRs to 600 ABs, he'd be close to 40 HRs, so it's not like hitting 31, 41, 47 and then 54 with Boston immediately after the move to Boston is wacky out of line.

 

It's not like Brady Anderson's one year spike and return to oblivion.