Travis Shaw

[jung]

Hanley will be fine. The problem is the current starting 3b and the inconsistency of the starting rotation (bigger problem than Pablo honestly).

 

Hanley will just be fine based on what????? He might be. But to cavalierly say he will be makes little sense.

- He is struggling with pop ups and plays with his foot on the bag (not a big deal if he had a history of working at this stuff, which he does not)

- He does not want to bat the DD wants him to bat....he MAY do it, but it is pretty obvious that he does not want to....Since when does Hanley do anything other than what Hanley wants to do? Expecting anything outside of his very specific desire zone, not even comfort zone, but desire zone is a challenge UNLESS he is hunting for a paycheck in which case he will say just about anything.

- He has no history of being able to maintain focus and concentration and yet they are sticking him in a position that just about requires that you maintain focus well beyond what appears to be Hanley's capabilities

 

I have already seen him slipping back into the hitting profile he sees himself in as opposed to the one DD wants and we still have three weeks of ST to go. So what is actually going on in that head of his. "OK, I gave DD a couple weeks of what he wants...now its back to what I want....hurrah" If Hanley goes back to that profile, he will be meat at the plate and then we can wonder about how much tolerance we will have for meat at the plate combined with his defense at 1st.

 

So I would not rule out Hanley being fine....but I for one will have to see it before I believe it based on his history. For my money, this guy is the Albert Haynesworth of Baseball. I swear to God, they are brothers separated at birth by circumstance.

[mvp 78]

All that Panda gear and memorabilia?

 

Pandas are out this season. Nobody wants to be seen in that passe clothing. Put all your money towards Tessie.

[mvp 78]

Hanley will just be fine based on what????? He might be. But to cavalierly say he will be makes little sense.

- He is struggling with pop ups and plays with his foot on the bag (not a big deal if he had a history of working at this stuff, which he does not)

 

No he's not.

 

- He does not want to bat the DD wants him to bat....he MAY do it, but it is pretty obvious that he does not want to....Since when does Hanley do anything other than what Hanley wants to do? Expecting anything outside of his very specific desire zone, not even comfort zone, but desire zone is a challenge UNLESS he is hunting for a paycheck in which case he will say just about anything.

 

There's no evidence of this anywhere.

 

- He has no history of being able to maintain focus and concentration and yet they are sticking him in a position that just about requires that you maintain focus well beyond what appears to be Hanley's capabilities

 

AGon said that Hanley needs to be closer to the action to keep his focus. It makes more sense that his mind will wander when further away from the ball. This will undoubtedly help his concentration.

 

I have already seen him slipping back into the hitting profile he sees himself in as opposed to the one DD wants and we still have three weeks of ST to go. So what is actually going on in that head of his. "OK, I gave DD a couple weeks of what he wants...now its back to what I want....hurrah" If Hanley goes back to that profile, he will be meat at the plate and then we can wonder about how much tolerance we will have for meat at the plate combined with his defense at 1st.

 

I have no idea what you are talking about here. It just sounds like rambling to me. Sorry.

 

So I would not rule out Hanley being fine....but I for one will have to see it before I believe it based on his history. For my money, this guy is the Albert Haynesworth of Baseball. I swear to God, they are brothers separated at birth by circumstance.

 

Um, ok?

[sk7326]

Hanley Ramirez was a credible downballot MVP choice as recently as 2013. He wanted to play in Boston so badly he was willing to try a position he was not wild about - to try to increase his durability.

 

Bat the way DD wants him to bat? Does Dombrowski not want walks and hard hits? That would be grounds to fire DD no? It is hard to say anything but Hanley is trying.

[mvp 78]

Hanley Ramirez was a credible downballot MVP choice as recently as 2013. He wanted to play in Boston so badly he was willing to try a position he was not wild about - to try to increase his durability.

 

Bat the way DD wants him to bat? Does Dombrowski not want walks and hard hits? That would be grounds to fire DD no? It is hard to say anything but Hanley is trying.

 

No, it seems really easy for some people to say he isn't trying no matter the amount of evidence showing that he is trying.

 

He wanted to play 1b in winter ball. Sox said no. "Why isn't Hanley trying???"

 

He is actively getting better at 1b (as noted by posters on this board who are at ST). Many people that are watching him day in and day out are saying this. "Why isn't Hanley trying???"

 

Yes, he began ST using Napoli's old glove, the same glove he practiced with all last year. You want to know why this isn't a story any more? Because he has been using multiple gloves now! Just google images of Hanley playing 1b and you'll see a few different gloves. "Why isn't Hanley trying???"

[jung]

Hanley Ramirez was a credible downballot MVP choice as recently as 2013. He wanted to play in Boston so badly he was willing to try a position he was not wild about - to try to increase his durability.

 

Bat the way DD wants him to bat? Does Dombrowski not want walks and hard hits? That would be grounds to fire DD no? It is hard to say anything but Hanley is trying.

 

On 86 games played....You are kidding right!

 

As for what I have seen Hanley backsliding into at the plate, he is again taking wild swings at low outside sliders....insisting that he is going to take a low outside slider deep. That 500' HR he hit the other day might actually be the worse thing for him. His first AB's this spring represented exactly what DD is looking him to do. Now the deeper we get into the spring, the less of that there is, the more of Hanley flailing for the downs there is...who knows....you can never tell with Hanley.

 

At least there is that to separate him from Albert. It got to the point with Albert where he gave you one good play, not to say a play where he actually tackled somebody or made a sack, but a play where he actually tried. Once you got that one good play out of Albert...get him off the field...you would not see another. IMO, Hanley just carries that a little further than Albert does but the thought process is the same.

[User Name]

Hanley Ramirez was a credible downballot MVP choice as recently as 2013. He wanted to play in Boston so badly he was willing to try a position he was not wild about - to try to increase his durability.

 

Bat the way DD wants him to bat? Does Dombrowski not want walks and hard hits? That would be grounds to fire DD no? It is hard to say anything but Hanley is trying.

 

I think jung is going the way of SoxSport with all his rambling.

[User Name]

On 86 games played....You are kidding right!

 

As for what I have seen Hanley backsliding into at the plate, he is again taking wild swings at low outside sliders....insisting that he is going to take a low outside slider deep. That 500' HR he hit the other day might actually be the worse thing for him. His first AB's this spring represented exactly what DD is looking him to do. Now the deeper we get into the spring, the less of that there is, the more of Hanley flailing for the downs there is...who knows....you can never tell with Hanley.

 

At least there is that to separate him from Albert. It got to the point with Albert where he gave you one good play, not to say a play where he actually tackled somebody or made a sack, but a play where he actually tried. Once you got that one good play out of Albert...get him off the field...you would not see another. IMO, Hanley just carries that a little further than Albert does but the thought process is the same.

 

How the f*** would you know any of this? Why do you keep making s*** up? Why do you keep talking like you know what guys are thinking? Why why why why why?

[sk7326]

On 86 games played....You are kidding right!

 

As for what I have seen Hanley backsliding into at the plate, he is again taking wild swings at low outside sliders....insisting that he is going to take a low outside slider deep. That 500' HR he hit the other day might actually be the worse thing for him. His first AB's this spring represented exactly what DD is looking him to do. Now the deeper we get into the spring, the less of that there is, the more of Hanley flailing for the downs there is...who knows....you can never tell with Hanley.

 

At least there is that to separate him from Albert. It got to the point with Albert where he gave you one good play, not to say a play where he actually tackled somebody or made a sack, but a play where he actually tried. Once you got that one good play out of Albert...get him off the field...you would not see another. IMO, Hanley just carries that a little further than Albert does but the thought process is the same.

 

I forgot how few games 2013 was - he was a 5 win player in 86 games, which made him one of the league's best players when he could take the field.

 

Hanley until last season has always been able to hit - and to recognize pitches and whatnot. Burden is on him on that end for sure. As always spring stats mean zero, and maybe less than that.

[User Name]

Also, Hanley provided positive value against sliders from both righties and lefties last year, regardless of location. Seriously, let's stop making stuff up.

[mvp 78]

I think jung is going the way of SoxSport with all his rambling.

 

Do not invoke the beast!

[mvp 78]

Also, Hanley provided positive value against sliders from both righties and lefties last year, regardless of location. Seriously, let's stop making stuff up.

 

Too bad it's a proven point that Hanley's shoulder injury has NOTHING TO DO WITH HIM SUCKING AT THE PLATE LAST YEAR. HE JUST WASN"T TYRING!!!

[User Name]

I see what you did there with that quote by the way. Not a fan.

[jung]

OK so here is one of the things that frustrates me about Hanley...You're damned if you do or damned if you don't with Hanley.

 

So lets for argument play both sides of the issue from last year.

Option 1

If his shoulders (and now it shoulders plural as to damage and potential additional injury due to having big joints that are damaged) were fine, then we can't blame his shoulders at all for his slump in performance.

Oprion 2

If his shoulders were not fine, he certainly knew it, knew it would rob him of power and yet continued AB after AB after AB to swing for the fences....did not matter what the team needed, did not matter what anybody wanted......Hanley just kept flailing away trying to pull the ball over the LF fence. Didn't matter if he was home or away, night or day...didn't matter where the pitch was, what kind of pitch it was, whether he had a snowballs chance in hell of hitting the ball out or not......simply did not matter.

 

So there ya' go. One example of living in HanleyWorld. No damage to the shoulders...can't blame them. Damage to the shoulders...Well then what the f*** was he doing????

[mvp 78]

I see what you did there with that quote by the way. Not a fan.

 

It's yours to change. Waiting on you...

[mvp 78]

I believe Hanley was injured and tried to play through it. I can't fault him for that. Farrell could have benched him at any point. I bet Farrell knew the issues Hanley was having.

[sk7326]

The injury might have led to the approach issues - as pitchers were less fearful of mistakes in the strike zone.

[User Name]

It's yours to change. Waiting on you...

 

Ooooh right, I forgot.

 

Worry not, for I shall be gentle.

[User Name]

The injury might have led to the approach issues - as pitchers were less fearful of mistakes in the strike zone.

 

Hanley's swing rates, O-zone rates, in the one and outside the zone contact%, K rates and general peripherals were all around career averages except for BB%, fastball values, and BABIP. It's simple, Hanley was fouling off or making weak contact on fastballs he should have driven. All consistent with the inability to drive pitches that come with (you guessed it) a bum shoulder.

[jung]

The injury might have led to the approach issues - as pitchers were less fearful of mistakes in the strike zone.

 

I wish Hanley was just swinging at hitters pitches that way. He wasn't. He was swinging at Pitchers pitches that way...he was swinging at every pitch that way. No pitchers were not just tossing BP up to Hanley trying to entice him to swing for the fences. They simply kept the ball away from him so that when he did swing for the fences, nothing happened. Hanley can't pull low outside sliders. He can't, I can't you can't, Stanton can't, Barry Bonds can't.

 

Farrell does not sit vets unless he feels that he has exercised every other option. Great place for a young ballplayer to come and stew on the bench.

 

Hanley IMO has a vision of himself as a hitter at this stage of his career. Hanley IMO has always had some vision of himself...not always the same one but some vision of himself and frankly does not care who else does not share that vision unless again he is hunting up a paycheck. Once he has a paycheck guaranteed, then whoever won the "prize" is stuck footing the bill for Hanley's vision of himself whether he can or even should try to execute on it.

 

Hanley wants to be a DH and thats all he wants to be. Now he has no idea at this point what it takes to be a good DH. But as usual he doesn't care. Hanley wants what he wants when he wants it and thats that. Hello Albert Haynesworth.

 

We are really and truly stuck waiting to see if Hanley will go to the plate with the purpose DD wants or if he will go to the plate with the purpose that he wants. Given that being meat to pitchers when he goes up there looking to swing for the LF fences regardless of pitcher, count, pitch type, pitch location, game situation is apparently not part of his vision but is part of trying to hit ML pitching the entire season probably hangs in the balance. They will simply not throw him the pitches he would need to make good on his vision and guess what, he is not hitting low outside sliders over the LF wall, good shoulders or no. Surprise surprise.

Edited March 16, 2016 by jung

[Spudboy]

Hanley's swing rates, O-zone rates, in the one and outside the zone contact%, K rates and general peripherals were all around career averages except for BB%, fastball values, and BABIP. It's simple, Hanley was fouling off or making weak contact on fastballs he should have driven. All consistent with the inability to drive pitches that come with (you guessed it) a bum shoulder.

 

But why was he DNP for the last 1/3 or so of the season when every day he showed up and put on a homer show in BP? The Boston media made a point of showing this for many days and questioning why he was not playing. The Sox line was lingering shoulder problems that prevented him from driving the ball. Yet in BP he was all over that s***.

 

Something clearly did not add up.

[mvp 78]

But why was he DNP for the last 1/3 or so of the season when every day he showed up and put on a homer show in BP? The Boston media made a point of showing this for many days and questioning why he was not playing. The Sox line was lingering shoulder problems that prevented him from driving the ball. Yet in BP he was all over that s***.

 

Something clearly did not add up.

 

Easier to turn on a BP fastball than an MLB fastball? Idk.

[a700hitter]

Easier to turn on a BP fastball than an MLB fastball? Idk.

There were a number of reports that he was swinging unimpeded. There was even a report that it was not hurting his throwing. We waited and waited. Then there were reports that he would not play 1B until he was completely comfortable at 1B. We waited some more. We read that he was working at 1B and that we would see him there sometime in September. We waited. Then he got sent home and the shoulder was the reason.

[User Name]

But why was he DNP for the last 1/3 or so of the season when every day he showed up and put on a homer show in BP? The Boston media made a point of showing this for many days and questioning why he was not playing. The Sox line was lingering shoulder problems that prevented him from driving the ball. Yet in BP he was all over that s***.

 

Something clearly did not add up.

 

I play softball. I can hit the ball over the wall with ease with someone grooving it over the middle of the plate. With someone changing speeds and hitting the corners, not so much.

[jacksonianmarch]

Still UN, if your shoulders hurt, swinging for the fences is very painful. And if the brass intended for him to get better, why is he taking BP? I find that excuse completely misleading

[jung]

I absolutely think we need Shaw to be playing regularly. I don't think we have enough pitching to hold teams down past Price and a super bullpen only helps you if you can hand it leads. Pablo looks flat terrible in the field and at the plate and other than Mookie, Travis and Sam, nobody is doing anything at the plate.

 

We have to get Shaw into the lineup while keeping Hanley in the lineup. As much as Hanley is not my kind of player, the Sox are forced to gamble on him. But we just have to get Pablo the hell out of the everyday lineup. There are just to many holes in this offense and trading out either Castillo for Shaw or Pablo for Shaw would appear to be a welcome improvement.

 

While these games mean little what does mean something is situational baseball in these games. Do you get the runner home from 3rd with less than two outs.....NO we don't. Do you get some runs out of bases loaded and one out. NO we don't. So while this will be the 7rth game in a row we are going to lose and the record itself is meaningless, what sits behind that record is not at all meaningless.

[User Name]

Still UN, if your shoulders hurt, swinging for the fences is very painful. And if the brass intended for him to get better, why is he taking BP? I find that excuse completely misleading

 

Unless he healed, but it f***ed up his swing. It happens after shoulder issues, like it did with Bobby Abreu and A-Gon.

[jacksonianmarch]

Adrian went through his shoulder issue when he was 27. And he was smashing 30+HR a season calling Petco home. He hasn't hit over 30 since the surgery. I think that has something to do with the fact that you aren't ever 100% after a shoulder surgery. Now Hanley didn't go through surgery. And Hanley was strong enough by end of year to jack taters onto Landsdowne street nearly every pitch in BP. My guess is his shoulder injury wasn't as serious as they made it out to be. My guess is that he pouted like he has always done and the new sheriff in town didn't take kindly to it.

[User Name]

I don't buy it. He was having a terrible time hitting fastballs he normally crushes, and the numbers bear that out. Even a not-so-significant shoulder injury can lead to screwy mechanics because of compensation. And this is coming from someone who's had a significant amount of shoulder/elbow issues in his lifetime. I'm no big leaguer, but I know how hard it is even for non-baseball activities like weightlifting.

[mvp 78]

Reporters are still saying today that Ramirez has played better at 1b than they imagined and that he really turned the corner about 5 days ago. He is enjoying the comradery in the infield and that he want to earn everyone's trust that he'll get whatever is thrown to him.

 

They also say he's been having great at bats recently.

 

Jung, your response?