The Official Dead Horse Topics Thread

[Bellhorn04]

I agree with UN. It's like we have a mental connection.

 

I don't think it's necessarily a mental connection. sk7326 is Mr. Reasonable of this forum, like thirtysomething was on the old forum.

[Bellhorn04]

They messed up with Lester.

 

I think trading Lackey became more or less necessary once they screwed up with Lester. Also, the trade should not have turned out as bad as it did.

 

As far as the BP goes, they didn't put together a bad BP. They put together a reasonable BP where pretty much everything they threw out there stunk. Bad luck.

 

I think you copied all this from a library of your own past posts.

[cp176]

just jumping in here - I really am happy that Price was signed. A power move. Actually a great move if you are a team with the budget (lol) the Red Sox have. The decision to not sign Lester works only if you back it up with someone better regardless of the cost. They simply did not back it up.

[mvp 78]

I'd rather Price with his contract than Lester with Homer Bailey's.

[cp176]

Ben is just shorthand for "Front Office." No one really knows who did what and it doesn't matter. When things go wrong Ben, Larry, Tom and John were all equally to blame. When things were going well they can all equally share the adoration.

 

I think so . It is the real world. If you are responsible, the person in charge, normally you want to take the blame for the bad and give credit to others when good things happen. Is that another concept that defines me as one of those old fools? I guess that I am one so I am ok with that .

[cp176]

I'd rather Price with his contract than Lester with Homer Bailey's.

 

I would rather have Price over Lester any which way. That is assuming that I could not have them both.

[a700hitter]

I think so . It is the real world. If you are responsible, the person in charge, normally you want to take the blame for the bad and give credit to others when good things happen. Is that another concept that defines me as one of those old fools? I guess that I am one so I am ok with that .

Accountability? What a quaint concept.

[cp176]

Accountability? What a quaint concept.

 

Old school?

[SoxHop]

I'd rather Price with his contract than Lester with Homer Bailey's.

 

This is what I was getting at. Something spooked them about Lester. And then he pulls a superb last year of contract season just to make it look bad. Excuse me, where was that before the contract year? I know he's good, but he'll never be 2014 good again, or until there is another contract year.

 

I think last years available pitchers wasn't worth the cost, so they waited, and went with what they had and some scrap heaps. We suffered a crap season last year,it shouldn't have been that bad, but it may have set us up for the following years better than throwing money around. And now we have Price.

 

Everyone knew going into 2015 the pitching wasn't going to be stellar, but the big guns weren't worth the cost. And it gave us another year to get our rookies into playing form.

[mvp 78]

Waiting on a FA class isn't your best bet. They were lucky Price didn't get a new contract during the year.

 

If I was GM last year, they would have Max and Lester, but no Hanley, Panda or Price.

[Bellhorn04]

They messed up with Lester.

 

I think trading Lackey became more or less necessary once they screwed up with Lester.

 

So their bungling led to the departure of 2 pitchers who put up a combined fWAR of 8.6 in 2015.

 

That only leaves the question of how much of the blame for the bungling belongs to Ben, which we'll never know.

[Bellhorn04]

This is what I was getting at. Something spooked them about Lester. And then he pulls a superb last year of contract season just to make it look bad. Excuse me, where was that before the contract year? I know he's good, but he'll never be 2014 good again, or until there is another contract year.

 

I think last years available pitchers wasn't worth the cost, so they waited, and went with what they had and some scrap heaps. We suffered a crap season last year,it shouldn't have been that bad, but it may have set us up for the following years better than throwing money around. And now we have Price.

 

Everyone knew going into 2015 the pitching wasn't going to be stellar, but the big guns weren't worth the cost. And it gave us another year to get our rookies into playing form.

 

The thing is, though, they basically swapped Lester for Porcello, who they're paying 95 million for 5 years.

 

If they could have signed Lester for Homer Bailey+ money of 6 years, 110 to 120 million, they didn't save very much money at all.

[a700hitter]

Waiting on a FA class isn't your best bet. They were lucky Price didn't get a new contract during the year. If I was GM last year, they would have Max and Lester, but no Hanley, Panda or Price.

You get my vote.

[Kimmi]

I don't think it's necessarily a mental connection. sk7326 is Mr. Reasonable of this forum, like thirtysomething was on the old forum.

 

I prefer to think of it as a mental connection. It makes me feel smarter.

 

Speaking of Thirtysomething, I have lost all contact with him. Have you seen him anywhere recently?

[Kimmi]

I'd rather Price with his contract than Lester with Homer Bailey's.

 

That's because you're an old fool.

[Kimmi]

I think so . It is the real world. If you are responsible, the person in charge, normally you want to take the blame for the bad and give credit to others when good things happen. Is that another concept that defines me as one of those old fools? I guess that I am one so I am ok with that .

 

FTR, Ben has done exactly that.

[Kimmi]

I would rather have Price over Lester any which way. That is assuming that I could not have them both.

 

Price over Lester at equal or nearly equal pay is a no brainer.

 

Price for Price money over Lester for Homer Bailey money is a completely different matter.

[Kimmi]

So their bungling led to the departure of 2 pitchers who put up a combined fWAR of 8.6 in 2015.

 

That only leaves the question of how much of the blame for the bungling belongs to Ben, which we'll never know.

 

Bungling the re-signing of Lester was bad. Very bad. If that was Ben's doing then shame on him.

[Kimmi]

The thing is, though, they basically swapped Lester for Porcello, who they're paying 95 million for 5 years.

 

If they could have signed Lester for Homer Bailey+ money of 6 years, 110 to 120 million, they didn't save very much money at all.

 

A big factor in signing Porcello over Lester though was their ages.

[Bellhorn04]

A big factor in signing Porcello over Lester though was their ages.

 

Agreed. But I was disagreeing with SoxHop about them not spending any money on pitching last year.

[mvp 78]

That's because you're an old fool.

 

Where's my walker?!?!?

[cp176]

FTR, Ben has done exactly that.

 

ok good- haven't heard much from ben --would expect nothing less

[cp176]

Price over Lester at equal or nearly equal pay is a no brainer.

 

Price for Price money over Lester for Homer Bailey money is a completely different matter.

 

Price vs Lester - Price regardless of the cost. Once again, it is that idea of the Sox having that imaginary budget.

[Dojji]

Price v lester is a false dilemma in the end. If people think we wouldn't have gotten Price if we had Lester, then I just disagree, especially if the rest of the rotation had still badly underperformed last year..

[cp176]

Price v lester is a false dilemma in the end. If people think we wouldn't have gotten Price if we had Lester, then I just disagree, especially if the rest of the rotation had still badly underperformed last year..

 

No false dilemma or whatever for me. In reality I don't think anyone ever suggested that we would have them both for real. My opinion only but I am happy that we have then that we have. I wish that we could have him or someone similar to him not named Lester sooner. I have always seen Lester as a high end number 2 guy. Adequate at the top of the rotation for most teams but not Price like.

[Kimmi]

Price vs Lester - Price regardless of the cost. Once again, it is that idea of the Sox having that imaginary budget.

 

They do have a budget, though, regardless of what some think. The whole idea about not caring how much they spend on a free agent is fine for a fan since "it's not my money", but FOs cannot think like that.

[Kimmi]

Price v lester is a false dilemma in the end. If people think we wouldn't have gotten Price if we had Lester, then I just disagree, especially if the rest of the rotation had still badly underperformed last year..

 

That's possible, but given the choice between Price @ $217 mil or Lester at @ $105 mil, I'm going with the latter. The money saved could be better spent elsewhere.

[cp176]

They do have a budget, though, regardless of what some think. The whole idea about not caring how much they spend on a free agent is fine for a fan since "it's not my money", but FOs cannot think like that.

 

I realize that they have a budget but all things are relative. For example, relative to my budget they have none. Wait - relative to a few mlb franchises they have none.

[cp176]

That's possible, but given the choice between Price @ $217 mil or Lester at @ $105 mil, I'm going with the latter. The money saved could be better spent elsewhere.

 

 

The money saved by not signing Lester would appear so far to be wasted. When you can afford the best, it might be in your best interest to get the best. You get what you pay for isn't just an expression. Note- I did say that the $ saved by not signing Lester "appears" to be wasted so far. I don't care that it cost a tad more to sign Price and I think that John Henry is pretty happy as well. If he had truly wanted Lester, we would still have Lester.

[Spudboy]

The money saved by not signing Lester would appear so far to be wasted. When you can afford the best, it might be in your best interest to get the best. You get what you pay for isn't just an expression. Note- I did say that the $ saved by not signing Lester "appears" to be wasted so far. I don't care that it cost a tad more to sign Price and I think that John Henry is pretty happy as well. If he had truly wanted Lester, we would still have Lester.

 

The more I think about it the more I am accepting this possibility. They f***ed-up the process from the get-go. They should have signed him at the end of the 2013 season regardless of what Lester or the Sox say. When they made that stupid offer in the spring of 2014 it was already too late. Then they made the 6/135 or so offer just as he was deciding to go to LA or Chicago.

 

DUMB, DUMB, DUMB.

 

Unless they really did not want him.