Manfred and the lifetime banning of Pete Rose

[User Name]

Discuss.

[Spudboy]

Kind of disappointed by the hypocrites.

[Northern Star]

Ban that bitch. The only controversy is because he's the hits king. If he was some scrub no one would bat an eyelid at the lifetime ban.

[Youk Of The Nation]

If I were Rose, I would focus more on trying to convince the HOF to change their policy. The HOF is not an official arm of Major League Baseball. Being banned from baseball does not make you ineligible for the HOF. The HOF itself instituted a rule that no player on the ineligible list can be inducted into the Hall. It seems to me that changing the mind of the HOF would be far less difficult than changing the mind of the Commissioner of the MLB, especially one who basically crawled out of the ass of Bud Selig to get the job.

[Kimmi]

I honestly have never followed his story very closely so I don't know all the details of what he was betting on and when, but my feeling is, let the dude back into baseball. Seriously.

[Ogden]

Discuss.

 

 

Why?

[mvp 78]

Discuss.

 

Don't care.

[User Name]

Why?

 

Because it's a baseball forum, and this is a baseball related matter. Much better than the "discussion" regarding Ben Cherington if you ask me.

[Dojji]

My opinion is that they should find a way to respect the accomplishments of the man during his lifetime without lifting the ban.

[mvp 78]

My opinion is that they should find a way to respect the accomplishments of the man during his lifetime without lifting the ban.

 

They already do. There are lots of Pete Rose exhibits at the HOF. He just doesn't have a plaque.

[Ogden]

Because it's a baseball forum, and this is a baseball related matter. Much better than the "discussion" regarding Ben Cherington if you ask me.

 

 

If you want to start a topic, offer a comment or opinion. If you don't have an opinion about Rose, why create the topic.

[User Name]

If you want to start a topic, offer a comment or opinion. If you don't have an opinion about Rose, why create the topic.

 

Because I can. And because I want to read other people's opinions. And why is this such a big deal to you? I created a thread about a baseball topic in a baseball website, as per the website's intended purpose.

[cp176]

I'm not a big Pete Rose fan nor am I a fan of anybody who cheated to achieve greatness (steroids) but I won't go so far as to say that I don't think that they should be honored for their accomplishments. We like to see the mighty fall in this country. This is where the word hypocrite comes in to play and not on the thread dealing with the accomplishments of Ben Cherington. For every one that got caught, how many are laughing on their way to the bank? We going to keep Ortiz out because of something somebody thinks that he might have done? Pete Rose is a definite HOFamer and should be in but so are many others who probably won't get there because they weren't very smart when they cheated.

[User Name]

You had to bring up Cherington here too? Jesus Christ.

 

By the way, in my opinion, if Shoeless Joe Jackson, who has been exonerated by investigations regarded the Black Sox scandal, is not admitted into the HOF, Rose should not get in either. There needs to be some consistency regarding HOF standards. Either you let no cheater in (and that should include people who used greenies, and several users are in the HOF), steroids, or gambled, or you let them all in.

Edited December 20, 2015 by User Name?

[cp176]

You had to bring up Cherington here too? Jesus Christ.

 

By the way, in my opinion, if Shoeless Joe Jackson, who has been exonerated by investigations regarded the Black Sox scandal, is not admitted into the HOF, Rose should not get in either. There needs to be some consistency regarding HOF standards. Either you let no cheater in (and that should include people who used greenies, and several users are in the HOF), steroids, or gambled.

 

!. Couldn't help it - obsessed with topic - devil made me do it - (multiple choice?) wtf

 

2. Shoeless Joe should be in there

 

3. Seriously (now and then) - Until only the saints can vote, I say let them in.

[Youk Of The Nation]

You had to bring up Cherington here too? Jesus Christ.

 

By the way, in my opinion, if Shoeless Joe Jackson, who has been exonerated by investigations regarded the Black Sox scandal, is not admitted into the HOF, Rose should not get in either. There needs to be some consistency regarding HOF standards. Either you let no cheater in (and that should include people who used greenies, and several users are in the HOF), steroids, or gambled, or you let them all in.

 

I forgot about Jackson! Yeah, he should definitely be in as well as Rose. I disagree about the cheating though. I think gambling on the sport and cheating during the actual games are very different. However, amphetamines (greenies) were not against the rules at the time that Ruth, etc. were using them, and PEDs were not against the rules at the beginning of the times that most players are presumed to have started. I don't believe it should be considered cheating unless it was done after the rules were instituted. Grandfathering in cheating accusations seems kind of douchey to me.

[a700hitter]

I have gone both ways on the Rose matter throughout the years. I do understand that there has to be a zero tolerance for gambling on baseball as that could destroy the integrity of the game. It almost destroyed baseball once. That being said, I would have no problem with Rose being inducted after his long exile. Who is right on this issue? For me the best barometer on this issue is the opinion of the Hall of Fame members including his for Reds HOF teammates. They are predominantly very opposed to Rose being inducted, and many have said that they would boycott his induction. In their opinion, he crossed a sacrosanct line.

[Youk Of The Nation]

Oh wow, I was not aware of that. I guess I assumed that his teammates would be on his side. I can sort of see their point, though.

[a700hitter]

Oh wow, I was not aware of that. I guess I assumed that his teammates would be on his side. I can sort of see their point, though.

Bench has been very vocal about it. I am not sure about Joe Morgan. i don't recall him being as opposed, but he has definitely not taken a supportive stance.

 

Edit: Joe Morgan's latest on Rose is not a ringing endorsement but more positive than what I remembered from him:

 

Along with the recent suspensions has come a new wave of sympathy for Rose. Hall of Fame second baseman and Reds teammate Joe Morgan is adamantly opposed to letting the likes of Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens into the Hall, but he recently said this: "Pete did a bad thing. & He broke baseball's cardinal rule. And he shouldn't have taken 10 years to come clean. But he never cheated the game. Yet he's out 24 years as opposed to [Ryan] Braun getting 65 games? That just doesn't seem right to me."

Edited December 20, 2015 by a700hitter

[cp176]

I have gone both ways on the Rose matter throughout the years. I do understand that there has to be a zero tolerance for gambling on baseball as that could destroy the integrity of the game. It almost destroyed baseball once. That being said, I would have no problem with Rose being inducted after his long exile. Who is right on this issue? For me the best barometer on this issue is the opinion of the Hall of Fame members including his for Reds HOF teammates. They are predominantly very opposed to Rose being inducted, and many have said that they would boycott his induction. In their opinion, he crossed a sacrosanct line.

 

 

Hey Rose was a switch hitter as well. Had to do that(sorry) - very tough questions to answer for sure. No wants to see gambling, drug use, domestic abuse etc. etc.etc. tolerated in our athletics. I can't remember and I am too lazy to check - was Rose gambling on baseball during his playing and or coaching years? Think he was during the coaching years. I just have a tough time dealing with the process in general. Each of our major sports programs Hall of Fames are inhabited by many villains I am sure. I bet that a few of them were even law breakers. I guess I kind of agree with the idea that if you broke a rule that was in fact an established rule then you have to pay the price. I am just not sure that the punnishment fits the crime in many cases. I am going to touch base with BC to get his opinion on this.

[a700hitter]

Hey Rose was a switch hitter as well. Had to do that(sorry) - very tough questions to answer for sure. No wants to see gambling, drug use, domestic abuse etc. etc.etc. tolerated in our athletics. I can't remember and I am too lazy to check - was Rose gambling on baseball during his playing and or coaching years? Think he was during the coaching years. I just have a tough time dealing with the process in general. Each of our major sports programs Hall of Fames are inhabited by many villains I am sure. I bet that a few of them were even law breakers. I guess I kind of agree with the idea that if you broke a rule that was in fact an established rule then you have to pay the price. I am just not sure that the punnishment fits the crime in many cases. I am going to touch base with BC to get his opinion on this.

O.J. is in the Football Hall of Fame. If he can be in the Football Hall of Fame, baseball would not crumble if Rose is inducted.

 

I remember Pete Rose as possibly the hardest working player of his generation. Hence, the nickname "Charlie Hustle." He exuded a love of the game. I remember that he used to say that he would walk through hell in a gasoline suit to play baseball. His fate has been a tragic one as he has been banned from the one thing he loved most.

[cp176]

O.J. is in the Football Hall of Fame. If he can be in the Football Hall of Fame, baseball would not crumble if Rose is inducted.

 

I remember Pete Rose as possibly the hardest working player of his generation. Hence, the nickname "Charlie Hustle." He exuded a love of the game. I remember that he used to say that he would walk through hell in a gasoline suit to play baseball. His fate has been a tragic one as he has been banned from the one thing he loved most.

 

Pete Rose is a classic example of a guy who you hated because he was on the other team. Growing up, we all wanted to play as hard as Pete Rose.

[Spudboy]

I am all for someone being punished for having broken a rule or law.

 

I am not sure how I feel on this Rose issue. It is clear that he broke a MLB rule by gambling on games while involved with those games.

 

But what about MLB and their seeming conflict with one of their own big rules? MLB has gotten into bed with gambling with their alliance with Draft Kings or just fantasy. The only difference seems to be that now baseball has a seemingly palatable way of getting paid for money being bet on their product.

 

 

So I am in conflict over this issue.

 

To me this has much less to do with "has Rose been contrite and has he reformed". Rather, I am looking at the moral and ethical stance of MLB. I say they are hypocrites.

[cp176]

I am all for someone being punished for having broken a rule or law.

 

I am not sure how I feel on this Rose issue. It is clear that he broke a MLB rule by gambling on games while involved with those games.

 

But what about MLB and their seeming conflict with one of their own big rules? MLB has gotten into bed with gambling with their alliance with Draft Kings or just fantasy. The only difference seems to be that now baseball has a seemingly palatable way of getting paid for money being bet on their product.

 

 

So I am in conflict over this issue.

 

To me this has much less to do with "has Rose been contrite and has he reformed". Rather, I am looking at the moral and ethical stance of MLB. I say they are hypocrites.

 

Agree

[Youk Of The Nation]

O.J. is in the Football Hall of Fame. If he can be in the Football Hall of Fame, baseball would not crumble if Rose is inducted.

 

I remember Pete Rose as possibly the hardest working player of his generation. Hence, the nickname "Charlie Hustle." He exuded a love of the game. I remember that he used to say that he would walk through hell in a gasoline suit to play baseball. His fate has been a tragic one as he has been banned from the one thing he loved most.

 

Hey now, be fair. O.J. Simpson was acquitted in a court of law!

[a700hitter]

I am all for someone being punished for having broken a rule or law.

 

I am not sure how I feel on this Rose issue. It is clear that he broke a MLB rule by gambling on games while involved with those games.

 

But what about MLB and their seeming conflict with one of their own big rules? MLB has gotten into bed with gambling with their alliance with Draft Kings or just fantasy. The only difference seems to be that now baseball has a seemingly palatable way of getting paid for money being bet on their product.

 

 

So I am in conflict over this issue.

 

To me this has much less to do with "has Rose been contrite and has he reformed". Rather, I am looking at the moral and ethical stance of MLB. I say they are hypocrites.

I also agree. I would leave the decision to those who are in the Hall of Fame. It is an honor that they have all earned. They should decide whether admitting Rose would besmirch the honor.

[cp176]

Hey now, be fair. O.J. Simpson was acquitted in a court of law!

 

once

[User Name]

I am all for someone being punished for having broken a rule or law.

 

I am not sure how I feel on this Rose issue. It is clear that he broke a MLB rule by gambling on games while involved with those games.

 

But what about MLB and their seeming conflict with one of their own big rules? MLB has gotten into bed with gambling with their alliance with Draft Kings or just fantasy. The only difference seems to be that now baseball has a seemingly palatable way of getting paid for money being bet on their product.

 

 

So I am in conflict over this issue.

 

To me this has much less to do with "has Rose been contrite and has he reformed". Rather, I am looking at the moral and ethical stance of MLB. I say they are hypocrites.

 

MLB's excuse for this is that no one who is in any way, shape or form affiliated to MLB can actually bet through DraftKings. I don't think that's what makes MLB hypocrites. They're hypocrites because they wanna punish and sully the names of the guys who used PED's when they weren't illegal, and refuse to exonerate Shoeless Joe even after history has proven there was no wrongdoing on his part.

[Spudboy]

MLB's excuse for this is that no one who is in any way, shape or form affiliated to MLB can actually bet through DraftKings. I don't think that's what makes MLB hypocrites. They're hypocrites because they wanna punish and sully the names of the guys who used PED's when they weren't illegal, and refuse to exonerate Shoeless Joe even after history has proven there was no wrongdoing on his part.

 

I still think that their ethics are selectively hypocritical. And I too believe what you said about PEDs and Jackson.

[jacksonianmarch]

Shoeless Joe hit .364 in the world series that season. If he threw the series, he sucked at it