2016 Red Sox Hot Stove Discussion Thread

[Kimmi]

I have only been following the sport for 3 years, and while my knowledge of rules, tactics, players, etc, is now quite decent, I still get a little lost on the trade market on times. Things I forget to take into account etc. So with that in mind this may be silly but would we be able to put a package together that tempts somebody (say the Mets for Harvey for this example) for an ace/top quality pitcher around these players.....

 

Buch

Owens

Hanley

One other highly rated prospect

 

?

 

I guess we would have to eat some of the Hanley contract but for the other team, for losing one of their top pitchers, they get another top pitcher in return(all be it for a year and injury prone), a highly rated pitcher for the future, a power bat and one other highly rated prospect.

 

Is that feasible?

 

For us - If you get rid of the Busch contract (for next year) and most of the Hanley one, it frees up funds to go sign a top pitcher off the free agent market too.

 

Go with a rotation of:

 

Harvey

Price/Zimmerman/Cueto

Rodriquez

Porcello

Miley

 

Move Kelly to the pen to add some fire power to that area.

 

I've no doubt I am probably in dream land, but I enjoy debates about trades without yet fully understanding the intricacies, so anyone that wants to tell me why it won't work/is a ridiculous idea, I'm all eyes.

 

I think it will take more than what you are offering to bring back a #1 starter, but you never know what some other GM is looking for. Also, if a GM really wants to get rid of a player, as it seems Beane wanted to do with Donaldson, then he might be willing to take less in return. There has been speculation that the Mets want to move Harvey, but we don't know if there is any truth to that.

 

Some of it also depends on whether a team is looking to contend next season or is going into rebuild mode. For any team looking to rebuild or go young, guys like Hanley or Buchholz are not likely to hold much value. For a team looking to contend, they might.

[Kimmi]

But he didn't take any time off. He went to the announcing booth and tried his hand their and then returned to the dugout. Also, Tito did not have 3 last place finishes in his last 4 years on his resume. in fact, he had one of the best winning percentages in Boston history-- plus 2 World championships. I am not saying that Ben will not get another job. I think he is a fool if he is taking time off at a time when there is an unusually large number of GM jobs open. Next season there will probably be fewer openings. I don't doubt that some other team will show poor judgment and recycle Ben.

 

If you don't doubt that some other team will "recycle" Ben, then why is he a fool for taking a year off?

 

How do you even know that he wants another GM job?

[a700hitter]

If you don't doubt that some other team will "recycle" Ben, then why is he a fool for taking a year off?

 

How do you even know that he wants another GM job?

I think he will hurt his chances greatly if he sits out a year. If he chooses to sit out the year, I think that is a very foolish decision. If he doesn't want to be a GM, that is another story, but anything else is a demotion.

[SoxHop]

What I want to know is whether they offered the job to Ben first.

 

ahahaha......that is so wrong it's right..........

 

WTF........ An ex GM wants to be the first base coach.......... and has no coaching experience............ this sounds like clown town time.......... I don't get this..... what am I missing?????

[reYoukilis]

If BCs moves turn out to be good it may be wise to take time off. Hell have more leverage. Edited October 26, 2015 by reYoukilis

[cp176]

If you don't doubt that some other team will "recycle" Ben, then why is he a fool for taking a year off?

 

How do you even know that he wants another GM job?

 

One more time - Who here really knows what Ben Cherington wants his future to be? I am not convinced that he wants to be the one in charge. At least not with a team with a huge payroll. I think that he has learned what his strengths as well as his weaknesses are. I'm not sure you could pay the man enough to be the primary target again if things go bad. A high up support roll player might be just what he wants. Ben Cherington in the right role (not GM) can be a tremendous asset to a team. I bet he knows that.

[jacksonianmarch]

Kimmi, how many pitchers do the sox need? Be realistic and take off your Ben Cherington issued rosy glasses, remove the pink hat, and put down the purplesaurus rex

[Kimmi]

ahahaha......that is so wrong it's right..........

 

WTF........ An ex GM wants to be the first base coach.......... and has no coaching experience............ this sounds like clown town time.......... I don't get this..... what am I missing?????

 

It's an odd move, to be sure.

[Kimmi]

If BCs moves turn out to be good it may be wise to take time off. Hell have more leverage.

 

There have been 3 teams (that we know about) who had an interest in hiring Ben in one capacity or another (two of them as GM). Other teams can see and appreciate the good things that he has done for this team.

[Kimmi]

One more time - Who here really knows what Ben Cherington wants his future to be? I am not convinced that he wants to be the one in charge. At least not with a team with a huge payroll. I think that he has learned what his strengths as well as his weaknesses are. I'm not sure you could pay the man enough to be the primary target again if things go bad. A high up support roll player might be just what he wants. Ben Cherington in the right role (not GM) can be a tremendous asset to a team. I bet he knows that.

 

I don't agree with your implication that Ben made a realization that he was not capable of being a GM. You may be right, but I don't think that's the case. I think he just needed some time away from the game. He's been in the business a long time.

[Kimmi]

Kimmi, how many pitchers do the sox need? Be realistic and take off your Ben Cherington issued rosy glasses, remove the pink hat, and put down the purplesaurus rex

 

IMO, the Sox need two starting pitchers, a #1 and a #2/3. However, that second pitcher (the #2/3) is really more for insurance and depth than a definite necessity. The Sox could be good to go if they added only a strong #1, but that does leave a lot of question marks or risks. So, I would say that we need two starters.

 

If you're talking bullpen, we need someone who can close in case Koji can't. So we need one top reliever, then several of the "throw against the wall and see who sticks" type.

[cp176]

I don't agree with your implication that Ben made a realization that he was not capable of being a GM. You may be right, but I don't think that's the case. I think he just needed some time away from the game. He's been in the business a long time.

 

You and I won't agree on this one and that's ok. Ben is a good man. As a GM, things really did not work out for him. You are assuming that I don't think that he is capable of being a General Manager. I think that you might want more for him than he wants. We all need to be supported in the things that we love to do. It is a cruel game.

[GomesBeard]

FWIW re: Harvey - here in the NY metro area, he is over the rocky stint he had in September with the fans. Mainly because he has shut up and pitched really well. So while all the rumors 2 months age were that Bogaerts-for-Harvey would have gotten it done, that ain't the case now and I don't think Harvey would be the one to be traded, if the Mets HAD to trade one of their big 4. But none of them will be eligible for big money for a couple of years. Harvey has 3 years of arbitration eligibility starting in 2016, and he's the first of the four. And the Mets would certainly try and lock him up for 5 or 6 years at a reasonable rate, which Harvey might be interested in due to his TJ surgery - security over the maximum buck (Scott Boras notwithstanding). But Harvey would look great in a RS uniform, so I would - almost - make that deal regardless of the cost....

[jacksonianmarch]

Gomes, Boras bought an insurance policy for Harvey on his arm. This is going to allow Harvey to play out the final three years of arbitration and cash in. Boras isn't dumb. If Harvey hits the market in 3 years, he will get huge money

[a700hitter]

FWIW re: Harvey - here in the NY metro area, he is over the rocky stint he had in September with the fans. Mainly because he has shut up and pitched really well. So while all the rumors 2 months age were that Bogaerts-for-Harvey would have gotten it done, that ain't the case now and I don't think Harvey would be the one to be traded, if the Mets HAD to trade one of their big 4. But none of them will be eligible for big money for a couple of years. Harvey has 3 years of arbitration eligibility starting in 2016, and he's the first of the four. And the Mets would certainly try and lock him up for 5 or 6 years at a reasonable rate, which Harvey might be interested in due to his TJ surgery - security over the maximum buck (Scott Boras notwithstanding). But Harvey would look great in a RS uniform, so I would - almost - make that deal regardless of the cost....

Bogaerts would still get it done for Harvey, imo. I just don't see the Red Sox offering an everyday star at a premium position for a pitcher.

[sk7326]

Would Bradley do it, do you think? Devers hasn't been ruled out yet has he?

 

Bradley wouldn't - although he should be the first guy they offer for anybody. There is power in telling somebody "I have a solid starting CF who will cost you $1.5M for the next three years". That has real value. But I think the Mets would want Betts - as well they should.

[Dojji]

Bradley won't fetch much back in return right now unless teams are fascinated by his toolset. He's still a pretty risky buy due to his early track record. One solid half year at this level though and you have an all star on your hands who would fetch you a heady return

[sk7326]

Bradley won't fetch much back in return right now unless teams are fascinated by his toolset. He's still a pretty risky buy due to his early track record. One solid half year at this level though and you have an all star on your hands who would fetch you a heady return

 

As I've noted - not a centerpiece of a deal but a valuable one. Good, cheap help is hard to find. His risk is actually quite low - as is his ceiling. He can get on base, the bat is streaky and the glove is breathtaking.

[cp176]

As I've noted - not a centerpiece of a deal but a valuable one. Good, cheap help is hard to find. His risk is actually quite low - as is his ceiling. He can get on base, the bat is streaky and the glove is breathtaking.

 

I agree with your post but i still don't know if anyone can guess at what JBJ's ceiling might be. That is and has been part of the allure. A little more full time play for someone (maybe us) and we might really get a clearer picture of who he is. That being said, he resides in an outfield with another one whose ceiling is anybody's best guess too - Castillo. Big question mark here as well. All we really know for sure is that he is more expensive than Bradley.

[a700hitter]

The Blue Jays and their GM Anthopoulos have parted ways. That is surprising.

[sk7326]

The Blue Jays and their GM Anthopoulos have parted ways. That is surprising.

 

It is. Shows that at the end of the day, these are jobs. Your old boss gets replaced, that might be enough to change gigs - especially if you are in demand.

[GomesBeard]

http://www.si.com/mlb/2015/10/29/toronto-blue-jays-general-manager-alex-anthopoulos-leaves

 

Interesting. Nothing like a good scolding the first time you meet your new boss!!

[Kimmi]

Anthopoulos stepping down after the hiring of Shapiro is very similar to Cherington stepping down with the hiring of Dombrowski. Who wants to remain in a job where you have more or less been demoted, despite retaining your title?

 

I don't blame AA one bit. He won't be without a job for long.

[mvp 78]

Xander is a GG finalist

[cp176]

Xander is a GG finalist

 

Great news - Not bad for a kid who a year ago had no range and an inaccurate arm. What a year!

[Kimmi]

Great news - Not bad for a kid who a year ago had no range and an inaccurate arm. What a year!

 

Bogaerts has made great strides defensively, and I'm glad to see that he is being recognized for his accomplishments. That said, it's the Gold Glove Awards. While they have become much improved since they added a saber component to their voting, they still come up with some doozies. As long as coaches and managers are doing the voting, this will be the case.

 

Bogaerts winning a GG would not be a complete sham like Jeter winning, but he does not deserve to win. Hardy probably should have been the 3rd finalist instead of him, but Bogaerts being nominated is not an outrage.

 

As I always say, I will wait for the Fielding Bible Awards to be announced.

[cp176]

Bogaerts has made great strides defensively, and I'm glad to see that he is being recognized for his accomplishments. That said, it's the Gold Glove Awards. While they have become much improved since they added a saber component to their voting, they still come up with some doozies. As long as coaches and managers are doing the voting, this will be the case.

 

Bogaerts winning a GG would not be a complete sham like Jeter winning, but he does not deserve to win. Hardy probably should have been the 3rd finalist instead of him, but Bogaerts being nominated is not an outrage.

 

As I always say, I will wait for the Fielding Bible Awards to be announced.

 

I'm good with the fact that he has been recognized for his excellent play this year. If all of the stats say that there are some who performed better in the field, that is ok. I like him for the work that he put in and would hate to see him moved. He probably has a pretty good idea as to what his fielding shortcomes might be. If there any, I bet he attempts to address them this off season. If he is a fixture for us at short, i am a happy guy.

[sk7326]

Anthopoulos stepping down after the hiring of Shapiro is very similar to Cherington stepping down with the hiring of Dombrowski. Who wants to remain in a job where you have more or less been demoted, despite retaining your title?

 

I don't blame AA one bit. He won't be without a job for long.

 

It's a lot worse than that - apparently Shapiro said he strongly disagreed with some of Anthopolous' deadline deals. The deals which got them 2 wins from the pennant. This sure feels like Rogers is going to cheap out after building a team that can contend next year with just a couple of moves.

[a700hitter]

I can't think of a lot of defensive standouts at SS in the AL except for Iglesias.

[mvp 78]

I can't think of a lot of defensive standouts at SS in the AL except for Iglesias.

 

Pretty much. The knock on Xander was that his defense would move him off the position. It's at least nice to know that he's capable of being consistent in the field. He doesn't have amazing range or a rifle arm, but I don't wince when a ball is hit his way.