07/29 Red Sox vs. Fake Sox

[Station 13]

Could an organization swimming in pile of cash like the Red Sox really send out a rotation of Buccholz, Miley, Masterson, Porcello, Kelly to begin the season? s*** need to change. Someone has to go.

[a700hitter]

Could an organization swimming in pile of cash like the Red Sox really send out a rotation of Buccholz, Miley, Masterson, Porcello, Kelly to begin the season? s*** need to change. Someone has to go.

some people don't want to blame Ben and place the blame on other FO members. There are a couple of things for certain at this juncture. The rotation rolled out at the beginning of the season had very little probability of succeeding. There were no favorable metrics indicating a probability of success. This rotation was put together with a hopes and erroneous projections. They hoped the Masterson would regain his velocity. They wrongly projected that Porcello would build on his 2014 performance despite being a 4.40 bottom of the rotation pitcher over his 6 full year career. They hoped that Buch would stay healthy. They hoped that Kelly would find the missing piece. I don't know with certainty who is too blame for this collection of garbage, but it didn't build itself. The other thing that is certain is that the person or persons responsible for this mess need to find another line of work.

[Thunder]

some people don't want to blame Ben and place the blame on other FO members. There are a couple of things for certain at this juncture. The rotation rolled out at the beginning of the season had very little probability of succeeding. There were no favorable metrics indicating a probability of success. This rotation was put together with a hopes and erroneous projections. They hoped the Masterson would regain his velocity. They wrongly projected that Porcello would build on his 2014 performance despite being a 4.40 bottom of the rotation pitcher over his 6 full year career. They hoped that Buch would stay healthy. They hoped that Kelly would find the missing piece. I don't know with certainty who is too blame for this collection of garbage, but it didn't build itself. The other thing that is certain is that the person or persons responsible for this mess need to find another line of work.

 

By that logic, it is Ben's fault.

[a700hitter]

By that logic, it is Ben's fault.

That is for the organization to decide, but they need to find the problem and fix it.

[mvp 78]

Signing Panda AND Hanley was dumb. Should have only signed one.

 

Not getting one top of the rotation guy was dumb.

 

Not moving on from Masterson when he sucked in April was dumb.

 

The extension to Porcello was dumb.

 

The bullpen was really thin considering the question marks placed into the rotation.

 

Firing the pitching coach was dumb.

 

Expecting Buch to lead the staff was dumb.

 

I think findamental changes need to be made which includes giving minimal player decisions to Werner and Lucchino, firing Ben, firing the entire coaching staff and moving on from a good chunk of the underperforming and injury prone vets.

[Elktonnick]

Signing Panda AND Hanley was dumb. Should have only signed one.

 

Not getting one top of the rotation guy was dumb.

 

Not moving on from Masterson when he sucked in April was dumb.

 

The extension to Porcello was dumb.

 

The bullpen was really thin considering the question marks placed into the rotation.

 

Firing the pitching coach was dumb.

 

Expecting Buch to lead the staff was dumb.

 

I think findamental changes need to be made which includes giving minimal player decisions to Werner and Lucchino, firing Ben, firing the entire coaching staff and moving on from a good chunk of the underperforming and injury prone vets.

 

What you are saying in a nutshell is: hire a proven baseball professional, give him a budget and let him do his job.

[SoxnCycles]

Signing Panda AND Hanley was dumb. Should have only signed one.

 

Not getting one top of the rotation guy was dumb.

 

Not moving on from Masterson when he sucked in April was dumb.

 

The extension to Porcello was dumb.

 

The bullpen was really thin considering the question marks placed into the rotation.

 

Firing the pitching coach was dumb.

 

Expecting Buch to lead the staff was dumb.

 

I think findamental changes need to be made which includes giving minimal player decisions to Werner and Lucchino, firing Ben, firing the entire coaching staff and moving on from a good chunk of the underperforming and injury prone vets.

 

Good luck with your last point.

This isn't the NFL. You can't just cut underperforming players.

And I doubt there are many teams lining up to take bad contracts off the Sox hands, unless they also include young, cheap, good players that we don't want to see traded.

[Kimmi]

some people don't want to blame Ben and place the blame on other FO members. There are a couple of things for certain at this juncture. The rotation rolled out at the beginning of the season had very little probability of succeeding. There were no favorable metrics indicating a probability of success. This rotation was put together with a hopes and erroneous projections. They hoped the Masterson would regain his velocity. They wrongly projected that Porcello would build on his 2014 performance despite being a 4.40 bottom of the rotation pitcher over his 6 full year career. They hoped that Buch would stay healthy. They hoped that Kelly would find the missing piece. I don't know with certainty who is too blame for this collection of garbage, but it didn't build itself. The other thing that is certain is that the person or persons responsible for this mess need to find another line of work.

 

Not true at all. The metrics and non-statistical arguments have been stated here before. They are legitimate arguments. They didn't work. That doesn't mean that there was little probability for them to be successful. Yes, there were risks, as there always were, but there was also a good probability that the staff would do okay. I'm not talking great, but at least good enough to be able to keep the team in most games.

[sk7326]

Could an organization swimming in pile of cash like the Red Sox really send out a rotation of Buccholz, Miley, Masterson, Porcello, Kelly to begin the season? s*** need to change. Someone has to go.

 

Yes. If your plan involved augmenting the defense, the offense and the bullpen to help it out. This is not a stupid strategy, we know this since a division leader today actually executed a similar-ish plan.

 

But the supporting elements have largely failed - and so the vulnerabilities stick out.

[Kimmi]

It was pure comedy is what that was. Especially when it's topped off with the clear corridor to third.

 

That was flat out embarrassing for the team.

 

Something like this is just inexcusablel.

[a700hitter]

Not true at all. The metrics and non-statistical arguments have been stated here before. They are legitimate arguments. They didn't work. That doesn't mean that there was little probability for them to be successful. Yes, there were risks, as there always were, but there was also a good probability that the staff would do okay. I'm not talking great, but at least good enough to be able to keep the team in most games.

We will have to disagree on this point. I was aware of the arguments and stats at the time of the acquisitions, but I found them to be weak and tenous support at best. I never believed that this chance had a good probability to succeed, not even as a mediocrity.

[iortiz]

Not true at all. The metrics and non-statistical arguments have been stated here before. They are legitimate arguments. They didn't work. That doesn't mean that there was little probability for them to be successful. Yes, there were risks, as there always were, but there was also a good probability that the staff would do okay. I'm not talking great, but at least good enough to be able to keep the team in most games.

I put a lot of metrics and intangibles over and over again in order to show you why this was a horrible rotation and a bad strategy from day one. For example, you said that Porcello was a No. 2, in what planet? (you were the only one believing this based on a bad diagnosis)... and he is not even close. Some of us said that he was a No.4-5 given his career numbers. I also said that he was going to be destroyed in fenway (which was blasphemy at the time), and is actually happening.

 

It's good to be optimistic and all Kim, but if you want to solve a problem, first you have to accept where the problem is, otherwise the problem will be there over and over and over again, like in this team . You keep saying that the strategy and plan was/is ok. You keep saying that Porcello is still a good idea. etc.

 

It is not.

 

Hopefully this team take a new direction and strategy. That Kim, is the main problem in this team in recent years.

[Bellhorn04]

Yes. If your plan involved augmenting the defense, the offense and the bullpen to help it out. This is not a stupid strategy, we know this since a division leader today actually executed a similar-ish plan.

 

To me it kind of makes more sense for a team with a smaller payroll like the Royals to employ such a strategy. For a team with one of the highest payrolls to do it still seems wonky to me.

[a700hitter]

I put a lot of metrics and intangibles over and over again in order to show you why this was a horrible rotation and a bad strategy from day one. For example, you said that Porcello was a No. 2, in what planet? (you were the only one believing this based on a bad diagnosis)... and he is not even close. Some of us said that he was a No.4-5 given his career numbers. I also said that he was going to be destroyed in fenway (which was blasphemy at the time), and is actually happening.

 

It's good to be optimistic and all Kim, but if you want to solve a problem, first you have to accept where the problem is, otherwise the problem will be there over and over and over again, like in this team . You keep saying that the strategy and plan was/is ok. You keep saying that Porcello is still a good idea. etc.

 

It is not.

 

Hopefully this team take a new direction and strategy. That Kim, is the main problem in this team in recent years.

The resistance to admitting that the strategy was flawed and the excution was even worse puzzles me. If that is the stance, do those people expect that Porcello's performance will regress and he will be a top of the rotation pitcher. If the organization places that kind of faith in him, making him the #2 again next season, they will be tossing away another baseball season.

[iortiz]

We will have to disagree on this point. I was aware of the arguments and stats at the time of the acquisitions, but I found them to be weak and tenous support at best. I never believed that this chance had a good probability to succeed, not even as a mediocrity.

 

I think that Kim believed what it's in your sig, and it is oks but it is time to move on.

 

Some of us did not drink Ben's kool aid at all.

[iortiz]

The resistance to admitting that the strategy was flawed and the excution was even worse puzzles me. If that is the stance, do those people expect that Porcello's performance will regress and he will be a top of the rotation pitcher. If the organization places that kind of faith in him, making him the #2 again next season, they will be tossing away another baseball season.

 

I would try to trade Porcello and Miley, but I do not see any team taking this junk.

 

If we keep Porcello and Miley they shall be our No. 4 and 5. We need at least 2 solid, proven and durable pitchers. I've been saying this for a while.

[SoxnCycles]

How does some that bet Porcello would have an ERA under 4.00 also state that they knew he would "get destroyed' in Fenway.

 

They either like taking both side of an argument so they can be right either way, or they have serious cognitive reasoning issues.

[iortiz]

Take away 2014 and make the sum. As I said, last year was a fluke year. I said that, over and over and over again.

[mvp 78]

Trading for Porcello was fine. Extending him before the season was stupid.

[iortiz]

When I see Porcello (aside 2014 and 2015, in order to be fair), I see a 4.5 pitcher, but in the ALE and in fenway, I see a 5 ERA pitcher. Meaning "could be destroyed"

[Spudboy]

For those that do not believe that a run should have been scored last night, here is our illustrious manager on the matter:

 

"Farrell said that even though there were no outs at the time and the Sox trailed by six runs, he understood why third-base coach Brian Butterfield elected to send Sandoval.

 

"Where the ball was picked up -- recognizing nobody was out -- where the ball was picked up in relation to where he was on the basepaths, that's a run that should score," said Farrell, who asserted Sandoval had passed the halfway point between second and third when right-fielder Avisail Garcia picked up the ball."

 

This is what I tried to convey. Forget that Butterfield may or may not be good at his job and that a green light with the score 6-0 and no outs is a bad idea. A game ready athlete scores on this play. Fatboy is not game ready.

[mvp 78]

Good luck with your last point.

This isn't the NFL. You can't just cut underperforming players.

And I doubt there are many teams lining up to take bad contracts off the Sox hands, unless they also include young, cheap, good players that we don't want to see traded.

 

If they ate money, they could move anyone. Should have DFA'd Napoli weeks ago. Also, trade Pedroia.

[BigPapi]

Trading for Porcello was fine. Extending him before the season was stupid.

 

Exactly.

[iortiz]

Trading for Porcello was fine. Extending him before the season was stupid.

 

I never liked that trade, BUT.... I said, well If their plan is giving him a No 4-5 role it will be acceptable, since at the time I expected the addition of a couple of arms, which never happened.

 

Instead they gave him the No. 1-2 slot and not only that, they gave him an extension without a single pitch in red sox uniform.

 

yes, it was really, really stupid.

[iortiz]

How does some that bet Porcello would have an ERA under 4.00 also state that they knew he would "get destroyed' in Fenway.

 

They either like taking both side of an argument so they can be right either way, or they have serious cognitive reasoning issues.

What? I think that you are the one that have cognitive reasoning issues.

 

All of my bets were that Porcello would finish with an over 4 ERA, Hell, I was willing to to put the bar at 4.5, but I did not see that necessary since some of you were so damn sure that he was a under 4 ERA guy. LOL

 

Now, the time to collect is coming.

[SoxnCycles]

If they ate money, they could move anyone. Should have DFA'd Napoli weeks ago. Also, trade Pedroia.

 

And that money is that much less you can spend on guys to replace them.

you DO know you'll have to replace them, right?

 

I agree with your Napoli point.

As for Pedroia, let me know when you can find a GG second baseman that hits .290 and will take 13 mil next year.

I get it, you don't like players that go all out every time, but you're high.

[SoxnCycles]

What? I think that you are the one that have cognitive reasoning issues.

 

All of my bets were that Porcello would finish with an over 4 ERA, Hell, I was willing to to put the bar at 4.5, but I did not see that necessary since some of you were so damn sure that he was a under 4 ERA guy. LOL

 

Now, the time to collect is coming.

 

I wasn't referring to you.

Try to keep up...

[mvp 78]

And that money is that much less you can spend on guys to replace them.

you DO know you'll have to replace them, right?

 

I agree with your Napoli point.

As for Pedroia, let me know when you can find a GG second baseman that hits .290 and will take 13 mil next year.

I get it, you don't like players that go all out every time, but you're high.

 

I'd like a 2b that could play all year without nagging injuries. He's overpaid and overrated.

[SoxnCycles]

I'd like a 2b that could play all year without nagging injuries. He's overpaid and overrated.

 

Really easy to say.

Not easy to do.

 

Yeah, he's overrated by everyone in baseball.

 

But you, of course...

[a700hitter]

What? I think that you are the one that have cognitive reasoning issues.

 

All of my bets were that Porcello would finish with an over 4 ERA, Hell, I was willing to to put the bar at 4.5, but I did not see that necessary since some of you were so damn sure that he was a under 4 ERA guy. LOL

 

Now, the time to collect is coming.

When someone is insulting you, they should try to get the facts straight before they hurl the insult. LOL!! I love it when that happens. Intelligence issues. Edited July 30, 2015 by a700hitter