Pedroia to the 15 day DL

[Kimmi]

You crack me up, VA.

 

VA is the best.

 

To heck with a King of Talksox, VA is the QUEEN!

[wyo-sox]

I agree. I know he's a fighter and a gamer, but there's nothing to play for anymore. Besides, I'm still terrified of the long term ramifications of his body type, play style, and that contract and what the three combined can mean for us.

 

Fully aware that this is not going to be the popular opinion by any means, if a team wanted Pedroia in trade I'd move him 15 times out of 10 right now. I don't see us as contenders in the immdediate future and we have a top of the line caliber replacement on staff right now (Brock Holt would be at least 24 teams' starting 2B right now) who's far more likely to be in his prime when the team makes it back to relevance, which I estimate to take about 2-3 years.

 

I tend to agree.

[a700hitter]

VA is the best.

 

To heck with a King of Talksox, VA is the QUEEN!

 

Troll

[Kimmi]

I agree. I know he's a fighter and a gamer, but there's nothing to play for anymore. Besides, I'm still terrified of the long term ramifications of his body type, play style, and that contract and what the three combined can mean for us.

 

Fully aware that this is not going to be the popular opinion by any means, if a team wanted Pedroia in trade I'd move him 15 times out of 10 right now. I don't see us as contenders in the immdediate future and we have a top of the line caliber replacement on staff right now (Brock Holt would be at least 24 teams' starting 2B right now) who's far more likely to be in his prime when the team makes it back to relevance, which I estimate to take about 2-3 years.

 

Trading Pedroia would be a PR nightmare, which is the last thing the Sox need right now. Besides, despite their record this year, I don't think that they are 2-3 years away from being a contender. Pedroia is part of a solid core of position players. If the right moves are made this offseason in terms of pitching, they could be right back in it next year.

[mvp 78]

Pedroia is solid like a pane of glass.

[Dojji]

You know what? Screw PR. Good PR is winning. Good PR is leveraging your assets to put your team in the best possible position to win. If you're not willing to do that just because of PR you have definitely put the cart before the horse and you have announced to the world that there are things more important than winning -- which ironically probably is also not good for PR, especially not in a town like this.

 

Put a good team on the field and let the PR take care of itself. Everyone will know what it means when an over 30 veteran is moved along and a younger model played in the same position and this might come as something of a shock to you but as long as the young guy makes good, nobody will even mind. Everyone who's spent any time watching baseball knows about the life cycle and knows what a team needs to do when it's time to shake things up. And a shakeup is definitely called for in the Boston Red Sox.

 

Heck if the team did trade Pedroia and replace him with Holt I would put money on the table that once that move was made, you, personally, Kimmi, would defend the move. Because trading an over 30 veteran and shaking up the leadership of the team are both logical moves for a team that's struggling to win games.

 

Or to put it another way -- Nearly every team Dustin Pedroia has ever captained has lost more games than it's won. How much are we really going to miss his leadership?

Edited July 26, 2015 by Dojji

[mvp 78]

I agree with Dojji. Someone kidnap Tom Werner!

[Dojji]

Pedroia is solid like a pane of glass.

 

Agreed. Just because he plays through injuries a lot doesn't mean he isn't getting injured, that kid has spent most of his career playing hurt and as he ages his ability to play through stuff is going to diminish and we'll start seeing more and more chinks in the armor.

[Kimmi]

You know what? Screw PR. Good PR is winning. Good PR is leveraging your assets to put your team in the best possible position to win. If you're not willing to do that just because of PR you have definitely put the cart before the horse and you have announced to the world that there are things more important than winning -- which ironically probably is also not good for PR, especially not in a town like this.

 

Put a good team on the field and let the PR take care of itself. Everyone will know what it means when an over 30 veteran is moved along and a younger model played in the same position and this might come as something of a shock to you but as long as the young guy makes good, nobody will even mind. Everyone who's spent any time watching baseball knows about the life cycle and knows what a team needs to do when it's time to shake things up. And a shakeup is definitely called for in the Boston Red Sox.

 

Heck if the team did trade Pedroia and replace him with Holt I would put money on the table that once that move was made, you, personally, Kimmi, would defend the move. Because trading an over 30 veteran and shaking up the leadership of the team are both logical moves for a team that's struggling to win games.

 

Or to put it another way -- Nearly every team Dustin Pedroia has ever captained has lost more games than it's won. How much are we really going to miss his leadership?

 

I'm not saying that I don't see any logic to trading Pedroia. There is logic to it, depending on what the return is and who replaces him. It's not a move I would make though. Personally, I don't think the team is as far off as you say. I see no need to gut the position players. Figure out who's going to play 1B next year, and focus on pitching. A total shake up of the team is not needed. The talent is there.

[Dojji]

I don't honestly think the talent is there, at least not in a way that we can count on. We're too dependent on Buchholz, Pedroia and Ortiz right now and those people are in a position where you can count on exactly *none* of them for *anything* next year. I personally want all of them gone and if I had to pick one of the thre to keep my choice of a keeper is probably Ortiz.

[cp176]

I'm not saying that I don't see any logic to trading Pedroia. There is logic to it, depending on what the return is and who replaces him. It's not a move I would make though. Personally, I don't think the team is as far off as you say. I see no need to gut the position players. Figure out who's going to play 1B next year, and focus on pitching. A total shake up of the team is not needed. The talent is there.

 

As long as you have Holt to back him up, I think trading Pedroia won't be a priority. Now - if an overhaul is what you are after and Betts moves back to second with Holt backing everybody up along with multiple other moves than go for it. I hope that you are right with respect to this group being closer to winning than I think that they are but Pedroia and his health is not much of a concern. Helps when he is in and doesn't hurt much when he isn't. After the pitching, I do see a third base, first base, dh issue coming up. The quick fix looks like a Ramirez move back to the infield. I don't think that he is a good enough fielder to do anything but hurt us defensively. If that is the case, it creates more problems as in the dh position. I don't think that they can figure out how to solve these issues. What happens to Margot, and what they decide to do with Moncada will create issues of their own.

[cp176]

You know what? Screw PR. Good PR is winning. Good PR is leveraging your assets to put your team in the best possible position to win. If you're not willing to do that just because of PR you have definitely put the cart before the horse and you have announced to the world that there are things more important than winning -- which ironically probably is also not good for PR, especially not in a town like this.

 

Put a good team on the field and let the PR take care of itself. Everyone will know what it means when an over 30 veteran is moved along and a younger model played in the same position and this might come as something of a shock to you but as long as the young guy makes good, nobody will even mind. Everyone who's spent any time watching baseball knows about the life cycle and knows what a team needs to do when it's time to shake things up. And a shakeup is definitely called for in the Boston Red Sox.

 

Heck if the team did trade Pedroia and replace him with Holt I would put money on the table that once that move was made, you, personally, Kimmi, would defend the move. Because trading an over 30 veteran and shaking up the leadership of the team are both logical moves for a team that's struggling to win games.

 

Or to put it another way -- Nearly every team Dustin Pedroia has ever captained has lost more games than it's won. How much are we really going to miss his leadership?

 

I do agree with you about the moves for PR sake of which this team is notorious. They lost me when they jacked up the ticket prices, increased spending and have created argueably the worst team in the American League. They won't see my butt in a seat at Fenway anytime soon and I am sure that they will find somebody elses to replace it with.

[User Name]

You know what? Screw PR. Good PR is winning. Good PR is leveraging your assets to put your team in the best possible position to win. If you're not willing to do that just because of PR you have definitely put the cart before the horse and you have announced to the world that there are things more important than winning -- which ironically probably is also not good for PR, especially not in a town like this.

 

Put a good team on the field and let the PR take care of itself. Everyone will know what it means when an over 30 veteran is moved along and a younger model played in the same position and this might come as something of a shock to you but as long as the young guy makes good, nobody will even mind. Everyone who's spent any time watching baseball knows about the life cycle and knows what a team needs to do when it's time to shake things up. And a shakeup is definitely called for in the Boston Red Sox.

 

Heck if the team did trade Pedroia and replace him with Holt I would put money on the table that once that move was made, you, personally, Kimmi, would defend the move. Because trading an over 30 veteran and shaking up the leadership of the team are both logical moves for a team that's struggling to win games.

 

Or to put it another way -- Nearly every team Dustin Pedroia has ever captained has lost more games than it's won. How much are we really going to miss his leadership?

 

You're focusing on the wrong problem.

 

It's the pitching.

[mvp 78]

Trade Pedroia for pitching.

[cp176]

Trading Pedroia would be a PR nightmare, which is the last thing the Sox need right now. Besides, despite their record this year, I don't think that they are 2-3 years away from being a contender. Pedroia is part of a solid core of position players. If the right moves are made this offseason in terms of pitching, they could be right back in it next year.

 

You might just as well keep him anyway. A beat up 32 year old second baseman no matter how good when healthy is not likely to bring back what we want in return.

[a700hitter]

Trading Pedroia would be a bombshell. Although on the downside of his career, he is still an excellent player. The return would have to be enormous as he is signed through 2012 at less than three quarters of the annual rate being paid to POS Porcello. The return would have to include major league talent and a blue chip prospect plus.

 

If our farm system is as well stocked as some people think, do we really need to trade part of the core of the team (one of our few true stars) to add to our farm? If this team's farm system is barren, we may have no choice but to move Pedroia to restock the farm. I am not sure that it would be a move that would have positive consequences for the Red Sox, not even several years down the road as I have zero confidence in Ben's judgment. If they trade Pedroia, I think that will be a strong indicator that the team is going nowhere for 2 to 3 more years. That would make 6 or 7 years of almost continuous suck. For a team with the resources of the Red Sox, that would be astounding. I really can't see this happening, especially if the Red Sox pick up Buch's option for almost what Pedroia makes.

[Kimmi]

I don't honestly think the talent is there, at least not in a way that we can count on. We're too dependent on Buchholz, Pedroia and Ortiz right now and those people are in a position where you can count on exactly *none* of them for *anything* next year. I personally want all of them gone and if I had to pick one of the thre to keep my choice of a keeper is probably Ortiz.

 

I think Buchholz' option should be picked up, but the FO cannot depend on him to be the ace, or to give the team a full season. They have to acquire a bona fide #1 for next season.

 

As far as Pedroia and Papi go, saying that you can't count on them for anything next year is a bit of an exaggeration. I understand that they are both getting older. I understand that the way Pedroia plays, coupled with him being older, puts him at risk for injury. He is still a very productive player, though, and he's far from being the problem of this team. Pedroia is the last player I would ever bet against.

 

I would be more concerned with Ortiz for next season than I am about Pedroia, due to the simple fact that he will be 40. Even so, I wouldn't count him out either. And like it or not, he will be back due to his vesting option.

 

The key is to always have a viable back up plan. The youngest, healthiest, best player can get injured or hit a break wall. You have to plan for such.

 

IMO, your idea would make more sense if the team were indeed going into full rebuild mode. I don't see that happening and I don't see the need for that happening.

[wyo-sox]

Trading Pedroia would be a PR nightmare, which is the last thing the Sox need right now. Besides, despite their record this year, I don't think that they are 2-3 years away from being a contender. Pedroia is part of a solid core of position players. If the right moves are made this offseason in terms of pitching, they could be right back in it next year.

 

 

So you don't think being the last place team 3/4 years is a PR nightmare?

[mvp 78]

So you don't think being the last place team 3/4 years is a PR nightmare?

 

As long as they are still selling panda hats, it's all good to them.

[Kimmi]

As long as you have Holt to back him up, I think trading Pedroia won't be a priority. Now - if an overhaul is what you are after and Betts moves back to second with Holt backing everybody up along with multiple other moves than go for it. I hope that you are right with respect to this group being closer to winning than I think that they are but Pedroia and his health is not much of a concern. Helps when he is in and doesn't hurt much when he isn't. After the pitching, I do see a third base, first base, dh issue coming up. The quick fix looks like a Ramirez move back to the infield. I don't think that he is a good enough fielder to do anything but hurt us defensively. If that is the case, it creates more problems as in the dh position. I don't think that they can figure out how to solve these issues. What happens to Margot, and what they decide to do with Moncada will create issues of their own.

 

I agree that Pedroia is not the issue.

 

Hanley is never going to be a great defender, but he was not as bad in the infield. Even though LF should be an easier position to play, it's a different skillset than what Hanley is used to. He's played a little bit at 3B, and a lot at SS, so moving him to 3B might limit his defensive damage a little.

 

The idea of having Hanley at 1B scares the heck out of me. Having a good defensive 1B makes the rest of the infield better defensively. We see play after play where a 1B makes a great pick, saving his infielder an error and saving his team some runs. I don't have the confidence in Hanley to do that.

 

That said, that would mean moving Pablo to 1B. I don't know how good he would be at that position either, though I'm pretty sure he would be better than Hanley.

[Kimmi]

I do agree with you about the moves for PR sake of which this team is notorious. They lost me when they jacked up the ticket prices, increased spending and have created argueably the worst team in the American League. They won't see my butt in a seat at Fenway anytime soon and I am sure that they will find somebody elses to replace it with.

 

Dojii's point of making or not making a move solely for the sake of PR is a valid one. With Pedroia, however, trading him would not be the right move for other reasons, in addition to it being a bad PR move.

[mvp 78]

Why? He can never stay healthy. He has been underwhelming since 2009.

[Kimmi]

You might just as well keep him anyway. A beat up 32 year old second baseman no matter how good when healthy is not likely to bring back what we want in return.

 

Pedroia is the heart and soul of this team. That might be cliche', but it has merit. IMO, he is worth more to our team than he would be worth to any other team in a trade.

[Kimmi]

So you don't think being the last place team 3/4 years is a PR nightmare?

 

Of course it is. There is no reason to make things worse by trading off a player who it not the problem not the problem, just for the sake of shaking things up.

[mvp 78]

How did the heart and soul help us in 2010, 2011, 2012, 2014 or 2015?

[Kimmi]

Why? He can never stay healthy. He has been underwhelming since 2009.

 

I don't get this "underwhelming" statement at all. By what standards?

[a700hitter]

I agree that Pedroia is not the issue.

 

Hanley is never going to be a great defender, but he was not as bad in the infield. Even though LF should be an easier position to play, it's a different skillset than what Hanley is used to. He's played a little bit at 3B, and a lot at SS, so moving him to 3B might limit his defensive damage a little.

 

The idea of having Hanley at 1B scares the heck out of me. Having a good defensive 1B makes the rest of the infield better defensively. We see play after play where a 1B makes a great pick, saving his infielder an error and saving his team some runs. I don't have the confidence in Hanley to do that.

 

That said, that would mean moving Pablo to 1B. I don't know how good he would be at that position either, though I'm pretty sure he would be better than Hanley.

Based on what... his superior girth that would make him a bigger target for the other infielders? The more guys you play out of position the more you weaken your defense. Let one guy learn a new position, not 2.

[Kimmi]

How did the heart and soul help us in 2010, 2011, 2012, 2014 or 2015?

 

Hard to measure the actual effect that he has on the team. But if I'm building a team around a certain type of player, I'm starting with him every time.

[mvp 78]

I don't get this "underwhelming" statement at all. By what standards?

 

Because he's the most overrated Sox player ever. If he wasn't a "gritty" white guy, no one would care about him.

[a700hitter]

Because he's the most overrated Sox player ever. If he wasn't a "gritty" white guy, no one would care about him.

"a 'gritty' white guy"? I thought he was Hispanic.