2015 Red Sox In-Season Thread

[waltr]

If that is strike three and the catcher didn't catch the ball, ddoen't he get tp run(waddle) to first base?

[waltr]

Fx ulna six weeks in cast

[Bellhorn04]

The FO was seduced by "clutch" Panda.

 

I think there were a few other factors that contributed too.

 

1) 'Young free agent'

2) Supposed solid defense

3) Panda merchandise

 

A grab bag of goodies that was too hard to resist.

[Elktonnick]

I think there were a few other factors that contributed too.

 

1) 'Young free agent'

2) Supposed solid defense

3) Panda merchandise

 

A grab bag of goodies that was too hard to resist.

 

The Sox were looking at the price per pound and they thought it was a good deal.

[Kimmi]

The problem is Hanley's ability to play SS has been severely diminished lately. -0.6 DWAR in 2014.

 

I realize that. I know that he is not and has never been a good defender. But as bad as he was defensively last year, he was a 3.3 WAR player overall. The idea that you can move a poor defender to a much easier position and think that he should at least maintain his previous level of defensive ability is not a crazy one.

[Kimmi]

Yes, last year it was hitting but this year its pitching. And its not like the rotation was supposed to be great and just let us down, they tried to go cheap. Why demolish what was good about last year to fix what was bad? You stay the same.

 

Consequently if you do finally get a decent rotation through these prospects and cheap diamonds in the rough, Hanley and Pandas contracts will be up and we'll be back to square one.

 

This is why getting Panda and Hanley makes no sense. It reeks of desperation.

 

The rotation was not supposed to be great. They were supposed to be mediocre, but that mediocrity was suppsed to be offset by a great offense and a very good defense. We were let down in ALL areas.

 

I personally was surprised that the Sox did not add a top starting pitcher. After spending all that money on other contracts and already being over the tax limit, I really though they would go that extra step and add that pitcher. However, I can understand their reasoning behind not doing so.

 

I don't think the team is several years away from being a contender. If the right pitching moves are made this offseason, the Sox can contend next year.

[Kimmi]

I heard a number of media types being very skeptical of the Sandoval signing. There were ample warnings about his regular season numbers not be that exceptional. I agree that the Sox were seduced by his playoff numbers.

 

The Sox were not influenced by his playoff numbers. Stat geeks know better.

 

If anything, they were seduced by his marketability, which would mean that Lucchino stuck his nose where it didn't belong, once again.

[a700hitter]

I realize that. I know that he is not and has never been a good defender. But as bad as he was defensively last year, he was a 3.3 WAR player overall. The idea that you can move a poor defender to a much easier position and think that he should at least maintain his previous level of defensive ability is not a crazy one.

Outfield is a much different position. I would not call it easier. In my younger days, I played infield and outfield and the transition was no problem. Then I played IF for about 10 seasons and when I went to the OF because the team was short that day, I had no instincts at all for the position. At the major league level, the break on fly balls need to be immediate. Major league outfielders are amazing the way they break so fast on a ball off the bat and take a direct route to the ball. It is not easy, and the transition for a substandard infielder at age 30 cannot be easy and should not have been assumed. They didn't do their homework and they made a very poor decision.

[a700hitter]

The Sox were not influenced by his playoff numbers. Stat geeks know better.

 

If anything, they were seduced by his marketability, which would mean that Lucchino stuck his nose where it didn't belong, once again.

 

There is a big market for fat slobs.

[a700hitter]

The Sox were not influenced by his playoff numbers. Stat geeks know better.

 

If anything, they were seduced by his marketability, which would mean that Lucchino stuck his nose where it didn't belong, once again.

kimmi, I like your posts that are backed up with stats. Do you have a stat or a press release to back up this statement or are you trying to absolve Ben by pointing a finger at Luchinno without any evidence? Even if there was a market for fat boy Panda stuff, the MLB licensingh agreement would share those sales equally with the other 29 teams. We could have let him go anywhere else and gotten an equal share of a panda product profits, unless Pandas are wildly popular in Boston in which case we would get a little more. Certainly, his marketing is negligible compared to his $100 million salary. I think the Panda marketing argument is the same type of red herring as the income streams that would materialize as the result of signing Dice K. Ownership set the record straight on that one. There were no streams of income that resulted from Dice K. The Panda signing was a bad baseball move. Nothing more.

[iortiz]

The Sox were not influenced by his playoff numbers. Stat geeks know better.

 

If anything, they were seduced by his marketability, which would mean that Lucchino stuck his nose where it didn't belong, once again.

 

I thought that Ben was the GM. How do you know that LL was behind the signing? or is it pure speculation? or is Ben just a puppet?

[Bellhorn04]

It's all speculation who's making the calls on these things.

 

If Ben was opposed to the Panda signing, he should take the Cashman route. When the Yankees signed Soriano to that 3 year, 35 million deal, Cashman came right out and said it wasn't his idea. He kept his job and I think he actually gained some credibility.

[iortiz]

It's all speculation who's making the calls on these things.

 

If Ben was opposed to the Panda signing, he should take the Cashman route. When the Yankees signed Soriano to that 3 year, 35 million deal, Cashman came right out and said it wasn't his idea. He kept his job and I think he actually gained some credibility.

The other day he said that he was the responsible for this mess. Probably it was just a PR statement but I really don't know.

 

The funny thing is that some posters here think that LL is the one who always make the bad moves and Ben the good ones. Not sure how they came with that conclusion. When I listen them, seems like LL is the devil LOL!. Speaking for myself, I have no idea what to think about LL.

 

Said that and as you said one thing is for sure, we do not know how/who make these calls.

[a700hitter]

The other day he said that he was the responsible for this mess. Probably it was just a PR statement but I really don't know.

 

The funny thing is that some posters here think that LL is the one who always make the bad moves and Ben the good ones. Not sure how they came with that conclusion. When I listen them, seems like LL is the devil LOL!. Speaking for myself, I have no idea what to think about LL.

 

Said that and as you said one thing is for sure, we do not know how/who make these calls.

I do know that Steinbrenner hated Luchinno. He told Henry that he hated Luchinno. It was in a biography on Boss Steinbrenner. If Steinbrenner hated Luchinno, Larry is good with me. LOL!! As to who makes the decisions, we don't know. The player moves are the responsibility of the GM. If he can't call the shots, he is a worhtless puppet.

[Behindenemylines]

Today is another example of why 2015 is a lost season. A lot of talk, but no action for the Sox.

[Northern Star]

The Sox were not influenced by his playoff numbers. Stat geeks know better.

 

If anything, they were seduced by his marketability, which would mean that Lucchino stuck his nose where it didn't belong, once again.

 

Pure conjecture on your part. I mean, obviously there was Pandamania in SF but that was based on the small sample of playoff performance. Already over the space of a season he was showing himself to not be a very good baseball player. I really hope they didn't throw that all away and just zero in on how many jerseys they could sell.

[Northern Star]

They seriously couldn't find a buyer for Koji? Wasn't expecting a great return, but a lottery ticket would have been nice.

[Kimmi]

kimmi, I like your posts that are backed up with stats. Do you have a stat or a press release to back up this statement or are you trying to absolve Ben by pointing a finger at Luchinno without any evidence? Even if there was a market for fat boy Panda stuff, the MLB licensingh agreement would share those sales equally with the other 29 teams. We could have let him go anywhere else and gotten an equal share of a panda product profits, unless Pandas are wildly popular in Boston in which case we would get a little more. Certainly, his marketing is negligible compared to his $100 million salary. I think the Panda marketing argument is the same type of red herring as the income streams that would materialize as the result of signing Dice K. Ownership set the record straight on that one. There were no streams of income that resulted from Dice K. The Panda signing was a bad baseball move. Nothing more.

 

No, I have no proof of who is actually pulling the trigger on these deals or for what reason they are making them. Nor do those who say that the FO was seduced by Panda's postseason numbers.

 

I really don't think that the FO signed Panda as a "splash" signing. I think they learned their lesson on that with Crawford and Lackey, although Lackey turned out to be pretty good. I think they signed him as a legitimate upgrade over what we had at 3B last year. It was a hole that clearly needed to be fixed.

 

I was just saying that I would believe that they signed him for his marketability before I would ever believe that they were seduced by his postseason numbers. As I said, stat geeks know better than to do that. And IF that were the case that is was a "splash" signing, I strongly believe that would be Lucchino's doing based on everything that I've read. Once again, no proof, only anecdotal evidence. (And my amazing ability to put 2 and 2 together LOL).

[Kimmi]

It's all speculation who's making the calls on these things.

 

If Ben was opposed to the Panda signing, he should take the Cashman route. When the Yankees signed Soriano to that 3 year, 35 million deal, Cashman came right out and said it wasn't his idea. He kept his job and I think he actually gained some credibility.

 

I disagree with that. Stating that it wasn't your idea implies that you were against it. I think it's always better to give the impression of a united front, regardless of what goes on behind the scenes.

 

And what kind of message would that send to the player? Henry said something along those lines about Crawford, didn't he? Not a good thing to do, IMO.

[Kimmi]

Pure conjecture on your part. I mean, obviously there was Pandamania in SF but that was based on the small sample of playoff performance. Already over the space of a season he was showing himself to not be a very good baseball player. I really hope they didn't throw that all away and just zero in on how many jerseys they could sell.

 

Yes it is pure conjecture. And I don't even believe that that was the reason they signed Panda.

[Spudboy]

I have a hard time accepting the idea that anyone with a lot of knowledge about the game actually made the decision to go get this pig when better options costing far less existed.

 

Who that could be in the FO is anyone's guess. Maybe they all are just not good at evaluating talent. Maybe an ego or two got in the way.

 

In any case the Sox made the wrong decision regardless of motivation.

[Kimmi]

I have a hard time accepting the idea that anyone with a lot of knowledge about the game actually made the decision to go get this pig when better options costing far less existed.

 

Who that could be in the FO is anyone's guess. Maybe they all are just not good at evaluating talent. Maybe an ego or two got in the way.

 

In any case the Sox made the wrong decision regardless of motivation.

 

As I've said many times, I thought that there were better options as well. Panda would not have been my first choice. It's very possible that the FO wanted Headley but were told by his agent that he was set on re-signing with the Yankees or that he was not signing with anyone until the Yankees did something. Who knows?

 

I am sure that the Sox considered all of the options. It's possible that after considering both, they felt that Panda was a better option than Headley, in which case I would agree that they made the wrong decision. It's also just as possible that Headley was not reasonably available to them.

[Bellhorn04]

They seriously couldn't find a buyer for Koji? Wasn't expecting a great return, but a lottery ticket would have been nice.

 

The problem with that is you have to find a new closer for next year. They've got enough to fix at it is IMO

[User Name]

I heard a number of media types being very skeptical of the Sandoval signing. There were ample warnings about his regular season numbers not be that exceptional. I agree that the Sox were seduced by his playoff numbers.

 

This is probably the one time you can actually back this up.

[Elktonnick]

The Sox were not influenced by his playoff numbers. Stat geeks know better.

 

If anything, they were seduced by his marketability, which would mean that Lucchino stuck his nose where it didn't belong, once again.

 

It was fairly obvious to a number of baseball analysts that the Sox were seduced by Sandoval's playoff numbers. That was the point that many made on MLB network, MLB radio, ESPN and elsewhere. I know you want to absolve Cherrington for his incompetence and blame everything on that evil Larry Lucchino. But Ben is either the General Manager or a highly paid eunuch, which is he?

[Spudboy]

Ben is not properly qualified.

 

In fact, he is less qualified than our own Username.

 

I can say this because I know the backgrounds of both.

[Bellhorn04]

It was fairly obvious to a number of baseball analysts that the Sox were seduced by Sandoval's playoff numbers. That was the point that many made on MLB network, MLB radio, ESPN and elsewhere. I know you want to absolve Cherrington for his incompetence and blame everything on that evil Larry Lucchino. But Ben is either the General Manager or a highly paid eunuch, which is he?

 

Sandoval may be a bad signing and a stupid signing, but there's no way the determining factor was his playoff numbers. I think everybody on this forum realizes you can't evaluate a player based on their playoff numbers alone, especially not one you're investing 95 million in. The average Joe Fan knows this. It's obvious. Some of these analysts just form their own conclusions based on assumption and speculation.

[iortiz]

It was fairly obvious to a number of baseball analysts that the Sox were seduced by Sandoval's playoff numbers. That was the point that many made on MLB network, MLB radio, ESPN and elsewhere. I know you want to absolve Cherrington for his incompetence and blame everything on that evil Larry Lucchino. But Ben is either the General Manager or a highly paid eunuch, which is he?

 

The same happened when Theo was here and s*** the bed big time.nWonder if It is LL's fault as well for Porcellos' mess. LOL!

[Elktonnick]

Sandoval may be a bad signing and a stupid signing, but there's no way the determining factor was his playoff numbers. I think everybody on this forum realizes you can't evaluate a player based on their playoff numbers alone, especially not one you're investing 95 million in. The average Joe Fan knows this. It's obvious. Some of these analysts just form their own conclusions based on assumption and speculation.

 

That's why they are called analysts. Whether it be sports, politics or whatever professional analysts are paid for conclusions based on many factors both quantitative ( statistics) and qualitative ( assumptions and speculations) that's what they do. It is called judgement.

[iortiz]

Just get goddamn pitching man!

 

http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2015/07/31/ben-cherington-admits-being-wrong-with-beginning-of-year-expectations-for-red-sox/