2015 Red Sox In-Season Thread

[a700hitter]

If he spent $20 mil on a player that was a known replacement level player, he would deserve the blame. If he spends $20 mil on a player who is a 3 WAR player, then said player performs like a replacement level player, then I can't really blame the GM. A GM just cannot control what takes place on the field.

He has had some horrible horrible luck. Poor Ben Murphy's Law Cherrington.

 

But he has to be fired.

[reYoukilis]

I believe I read today that the Sox have the #1 farm system in MLB. I think the owners and the FO do patience a lot better than the fans do. Not patience where they will go into rebuild mode for several years, but patience where they won't sell the farm in an attempt to bring in a superstar to "win it all this year".

I'm glad we have kept the farm system intact now lets build a team with it, but do it with D and pitching first and foremost and be prepared to go through growing pains. I like Hanigan and D Aza. Those are the kind of signings we could make while we're rebuilbing. I didnt think Ramirez or Sandoval were a step in the right direction. Talented yes but looked like more impatience by the FO.

[Elktonnick]

If he spent $20 mil on a player that was a known replacement level player, he would deserve the blame. If he spends $20 mil on a player who is a 3 WAR player, then said player performs like a replacement level player, then I can't really blame the GM. A GM just cannot control what takes place on the field.

 

A GM is responsible for the players he puts on the field. It wasn't just one player but virtually the entire starting rotation. That's what comes from trusting stats alone and not taking into account the human factor. Once in last place can be called bad luck, twice can be called poor judgement but three times is incompetence.

[Kimmi]

I'm glad we have kept the farm system intact now lets build a team with it, but do it with D and pitching first and foremost and be prepared to go through growing pains. I like Hanigan and D Aza. Those are the kind of signings we could make while we're rebuilbing. I didnt think Ramirez or Sandoval were a step in the right direction. Talented yes but looked like more impatience by the FO.

 

Last year we had a team with 3 of our farm guys playing 3 key positions. We saw first hand what growing pains look like. We also saw that fans were not very patient.

 

I like the Hanigan and De Aza signings as well.

[a700hitter]

Last year we had a team with 3 of our farm guys playing 3 key positions. We saw first hand what growing pains look like. We also saw that fans were not very patient.

 

I like the Hanigan and De Aza signings as well.

The fans weren't patient? Didn't they play to a packed Fenway every night? Growing pains? That's really understating last place.

[Kimmi]

A GM is responsible for the players he puts on the field. It wasn't just one player but virtually the entire starting rotation. That's what comes from trusting stats alone and not taking into account the human factor. Once in last place can be called bad luck, twice can be called poor judgement but three times is incompetence.

 

I highly, highly doubt that the FO goes by stats alone. There's a reason why they have a scouting department. Any fault that goes to the FO goes to both aspects of player evaluation, not just the stat side.

 

I know that virtually the entire rotation stunk. And they all underperformed.

 

I understand if you want to put the blame on the GM. I really do. I just don't think he deserves it.

[Elktonnick]

I highly, highly doubt that the FO goes by stats alone. There's a reason why they have a scouting department. Any fault that goes to the FO goes to both aspects of player evaluation, not just the stat side.

 

I know that virtually the entire rotation stunk. And they all underperformed.

 

I understand if you want to put the blame on the GM. I really do. I just don't think he deserves it.

 

Kimmi, There is this bridge in Brooklyn .......

[cp176]

I'm glad we have kept the farm system intact now lets build a team with it, but do it with D and pitching first and foremost and be prepared to go through growing pains. I like Hanigan and D Aza. Those are the kind of signings we could make while we're rebuilbing. I didnt think Ramirez or Sandoval were a step in the right direction. Talented yes but looked like more impatience by the FO.

 

 

there is no one we haven't already seen in Pawtucket who is ready to help us out much right away. Maybe owens but maybe not. No one in Portland playing well enough to be promoted to Pawtucket. We might have some decent young talent but they haven't proven a thing yet. If we don't make some deals and simply depend on the farm to produce the players, we are in for a long wait. JBJ is the only one who stands out and we know how most people feel about him.

[reYoukilis]

there is no one we haven't already seen in Pawtucket who is ready to help us out much right away. Maybe owens but maybe not. No one in Portland playing well enough to be promoted to Pawtucket. We might have some decent young talent but they haven't proven a thing yet. If we don't make some deals and simply depend on the farm to produce the players, we are in for a long wait. JBJ is the only one who stands out and we know how most people feel about him.

If JBJ's last stint is indicative of his future, problem solved. XB didn't look too good either there for awhile. If JBJ works out we have a pretty good core of young players. Christian Vasquez too when he gets healthy.

 

What I'm saying is that, like the Astros, we can expect to suck for awhile while we get our s*** together. That way the pressure is lessened too and we can build team chemistry.

 

As for pitching, didn't we trade some of our prospects away for some offense that didn't pan out? Those pitchers could have figured some things out by now.

[cp176]

I hear you and lifelong fans try to stay positive about the future. Based on what they have done over the course of the last few years, not sure this current front office is capable of making moves that will help us. Somewhere along the line there is a huge disconnect between our prospects and what they do at the ml level.

[jacksonianmarch]

Kimmi, are you having Cherington's love child or something? The GM makes the final say on personnel decisions.

 

He decided to move on from Ellsbury after 2013, allowing JBJ to take over. Well, JBJ was a disaster and Ells has basically continued his typical performance in pinstripes. Now, I can't fault him for not offering 7 years to Ells, but replacing him with JBJ was a bad baseball decision

 

He decided to bring back Drew 3 months into the season, which caused Bogaerts to tank and basically lose a year of development. You're lucky you didn't lose Bogey, as he has rebounded.

 

He signed Rusney to a $72 mil deal and he's still in Pawtucket because he lacks any semblance of baseball fundamentals

 

He dealt away Jon Lester for Cespedes when it became clear he f***ed up the negotiations. He then failed to re-sign Lester after publicly stating their intent to "try". He then deals Cespedes to Detroit, where he has a monster year. He received Porcello, a chronic middling SP coming off one good year, extends him for near $100 mil before he throws a pitch on the Fenway mound and watches him die in a Red Sox uniform.

 

He deals Lackey to StL with a year and a half of control left, only to watch him continue his run of dominance. He gets a broken down OF with a big contract who is now in Pawtucket only because nobody else wants him. You also get Joe Kelly, who has been absolutely demolished in the bigs this year, also spending some time in AAA.

 

He rounds out the rotation by dealing for Wade Miley, extending him before he throws a pitch, and watches him be a major clubhouse cancer while showing middling numbers in a sox uniform.

 

He adds Masterson for nearly $10 mil after the guy couldn't crack two teams' rotations last year and after seeing a massive drop in velocity from the year before

 

He signs Sandoval for huge money based on playoff success and has watched his D devolve and his O stifle to the point where he has to give up switch hitting.

 

He signs Hanley to huge money to play a new position forgetting that the guy is a huge clubhouse cancer, lacks attitude or motivation. His O has basically provided only power and his D has been awful.

 

And this year, holding onto Buchholz too long likely cost them a chance to get a very nice prospect haul. As it stands, I think he walks in FA.

 

Counter that with the only good move I see, as dealing Miller for E-Rod looks good long term, even though Miller is absolutely dominant at present

[a700hitter]

Pedey's rust coming back from his injury has really hurt us. He had been red hot when he got injured.

[Bellhorn04]

And this year, holding onto Buchholz too long likely cost them a chance to get a very nice prospect haul. As it stands, I think he walks in FA.

 

If he's healthy the Red Sox exercise the option, no?

[Bellhorn04]

He rounds out the rotation by dealing for Wade Miley, extending him before he throws a pitch, and watches him be a major clubhouse cancer while showing middling numbers in a sox uniform.

 

Easy on the hyperbole. One dugout blowup doesn't equate to 'major clubhouse cancer'.

[a700hitter]

It has also hurt that we have a rotation of 3 and they are mediocre.

 

The horseshit starting pitching has taken a toll on what little effectiveness there had been in the bullpen. Tazawa's arm is like a limp noodle right now. His command is not what it had been--that is a clear indication of overwork or worse -- an injury.

 

But on the bright side Hanley has sacrificed to make himself into one of the worst outfielders in baseball.

 

Also on the bright side, our marketing operation is doing a top notch job by filling the park night after night despite the team's awful performance and last place position in the standings. There have been many clever promotions. The Bark in the Park event was a huge success as the fans lined up with their dogs at Fenway when the Sox were on the road. The dogs were allowed to be walked around the warning track. No dogs were allowed on the Grass portions of the field or the infield. The only time dogs are allowed in those areas is during Red Sox games.

 

Lastly, we all need to be patient as this team is in a period of transition -- to complete irrelevance. When the plan is implemented and the transition is complete, we should experience a prolonged period of utter hopelessness which should reduce our anxiety, because we will have no hopes for the team to dash.

 

In all seriousness, JH, grow a pair of balls and fire Ben and Farrell and set this franchise on a new course. This ship crashed on the rocks last season and it has been sinking ever since. It is time to abandon this ship.

Edited July 24, 2015 by a700hitter

[User Name]

Jacko usually defeats what are otherwise correct points with a wad of ********. Miley has also been pretty good after a horrendous April.

[User Name]

The issue here isn't assigning blame. The issue is that whatever the Red Sox are doing is not working. For me, the buck starts and stops at Cherington, (just to clarify, even if it contradicts my earlier statement a bit) as I personally believe this team is playing way below its talent level, and that is a coaching staff issue. A coaching staff endorsed and assembled by Cherington.

[a700hitter]

It seems that Lauber has joined the fire Cherrington chorus.

Wilbur of the Globe has also joined the chorus. He battered Ben in his article entitled "Ben Cherington and the delusion of turning the Red Sox back into a contender"

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/2015/07/23/ben-cherington-and-the-delusion-turning-the-red-sox-back-into-contender/ARW893uRr7Hg8DbVYcZAAI/story.html?p1=stream_sports

 

Both papers are going after him hard. The blood is in the water. The smear campaign seems to be starting. I hate the backstabbing way the Red Sox do their business. I think Ben should be fired. This performance over the last 2 years is completely unacceptable and a change has to be made whether or not Cherington is to blame. Have a news conference and announce that he has been fired and let him have his dignity. He is a stand up guy. There is no reason to destroy him in the press.

[Spudboy]

Easy on the hyperbole. One dugout blowup doesn't equate to 'major clubhouse cancer'.

 

Yeah I did not like the fit he threw with Farrell but I have heard zero about anything else he may have done to be labeled a cancer. Even Hanley has been silent on that front.

 

I call ******** Doc.

[Elktonnick]

Wilbur of the Globe has also joined the chorus. He battered Ben in his article entitled "Ben Cherington and the delusion of turning the Red Sox back into a contender"

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/2015/07/23/ben-cherington-and-the-delusion-turning-the-red-sox-back-into-contender/ARW893uRr7Hg8DbVYcZAAI/story.html?p1=stream_sports

 

Both papers are going after him hard. The blood is in the water. The smear campaign seems to be starting. I hate the backstabbing way the Red Sox do their business. I think Ben should be fired. This performance over the last 2 years is completely unacceptable and a change has to be made whether or not Cherington is to blame. Have a news conference and announce that he has been fired and let him have his dignity. He is a stand up guy. There is no reason to destroy him in the press.

 

It may be a smear campaign or it may be that everyone sees just how incompetent Cherrington is. His Houston press conference was a disaster.

[a700hitter]

And another thing, the whole beard/long hair thing was cool when we were winning. It was an embodiment of anti-establishment victory. Now, as you are wallowing at the bottom of the standings with confused looks on your faces, you just look like a bunch of drunk, homeless vagrants. Clean yourself up and at least try to look professional. Don't add to the embarrassment.

[a700hitter]

It may be a smear campaign or it may be that everyone sees just how incompetent Cherrington is. His Houston press conference was a disaster.

there is no denying that the guy is an incompetent and deserves to be fired, but the whores in the Boston press will usually hold back on a full frontal attack until they get a signal from the FO as they fear upsetting the higher powers and losing access. Once they sense that someone is out of favor with ownership, they unleash the dogs. Edited July 24, 2015 by a700hitter

[Kimmi]

If he's healthy the Red Sox exercise the option, no?

 

I would say yes, despite the known risks.

[Kimmi]

The issue here isn't assigning blame. The issue is that whatever the Red Sox are doing is not working. For me, the buck starts and stops at Cherington, (just to clarify, even if it contradicts my earlier statement a bit) as I personally believe this team is playing way below its talent level, and that is a coaching staff issue. A coaching staff endorsed and assembled by Cherington.

 

It is Ben's responsibility to acknowledge that his strategy didn't work, which he has, and to figure out a way to fix it. I fully expect pitching to be his top priority.

[Bellhorn04]

Here's a reasonable take on things from Alex Speier. There's a suggestion that Cherington should go back to being the team's farm director.

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/07/23/shoud-red-sox-rebuild-front-office-addition-roster/ZrxJupG2funttH1H367c4L/story.html

[Kimmi]

Yeah I did not like the fit he threw with Farrell but I have heard zero about anything else he may have done to be labeled a cancer. Even Hanley has been silent on that front.

 

I call ******** Doc.

 

I am not getting all the talk about clubhouse cancers or bad character, be it Miley, Hanley, or Sandoval. When a team is losing, the atmosphere in the clubhouse obviously is going to be less jovial than when a team is winning. For as badly as this team is playing, reports of clubhouse cancers have been mostly nonexistent. The players have handled themselves rather well, if you ask me.

[Elktonnick]

I am not getting all the talk about clubhouse cancers or bad character, be it Miley, Hanley, or Sandoval. When a team is losing, the atmosphere in the clubhouse obviously is going to be less jovial than when a team is winning. For as badly as this team is playing, reports of clubhouse cancers have been mostly nonexistent. The players have handled themselves rather well, if you ask me.

 

They all look ( and play) like dead men walking.

[a700hitter]

Here's a reasonable take on things from Alex Speier. There's a suggestion that Cherington should go back to being the team's farm director.

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/07/23/shoud-red-sox-rebuild-front-office-addition-roster/ZrxJupG2funttH1H367c4L/story.html

I think that he is just being nice. GMs don't get demoted. They get fired.

[Kimmi]

Here's a reasonable take on things from Alex Speier. There's a suggestion that Cherington should go back to being the team's farm director.

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/07/23/shoud-red-sox-rebuild-front-office-addition-roster/ZrxJupG2funttH1H367c4L/story.html

 

Speier wants to call what the Sox have experienced in the last 4 years "rebuilding". Yes, it has been in a sense, but not entirely. It's been a period where the team has been trying to build a core of young players like Mookie, Xander, Swihart, Vazquez, JBJ, and even Middlebrooks, and now possibly some young pitching. In the interim, they have signed players to shorter term contracts to help the team win each year. The idea behind this is that you can be competitive in the short term while not hurting the team's future in terms of either prospects or money. It worked for the short term in 2013. It didn't work short term the other 3 years.

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that philosophy. Sox fans have become impatient. Hence, the FO tries to keep the team competitive while letting the kids develop. In a perfect world, it would not have gone so wrong in those 3 years.

 

The question now is, has the FO reached its goal of setting this team up for a good run with its core of young players?

 

The last part of Speier's article sums it up nicely:

 

If he’s bringing the team closer to its long-term aspiration of “the next great Red Sox team,” then despite the miserable performances of recent years, he’s the right man for the job. If not, then the Sox’ focus should be on their front office rather than their roster.

[iortiz]

Kimmi, are you having Cherington's love child or something? The GM makes the final say on personnel decisions.

 

He decided to move on from Ellsbury after 2013, allowing JBJ to take over. Well, JBJ was a disaster and Ells has basically continued his typical performance in pinstripes. Now, I can't fault him for not offering 7 years to Ells, but replacing him with JBJ was a bad baseball decision

 

He decided to bring back Drew 3 months into the season, which caused Bogaerts to tank and basically lose a year of development. You're lucky you didn't lose Bogey, as he has rebounded.

 

He signed Rusney to a $72 mil deal and he's still in Pawtucket because he lacks any semblance of baseball fundamentals

 

He dealt away Jon Lester for Cespedes when it became clear he f***ed up the negotiations. He then failed to re-sign Lester after publicly stating their intent to "try". He then deals Cespedes to Detroit, where he has a monster year. He received Porcello, a chronic middling SP coming off one good year, extends him for near $100 mil before he throws a pitch on the Fenway mound and watches him die in a Red Sox uniform.

 

He deals Lackey to StL with a year and a half of control left, only to watch him continue his run of dominance. He gets a broken down OF with a big contract who is now in Pawtucket only because nobody else wants him. You also get Joe Kelly, who has been absolutely demolished in the bigs this year, also spending some time in AAA.

 

He rounds out the rotation by dealing for Wade Miley, extending him before he throws a pitch, and watches him be a major clubhouse cancer while showing middling numbers in a sox uniform.

 

He adds Masterson for nearly $10 mil after the guy couldn't crack two teams' rotations last year and after seeing a massive drop in velocity from the year before

 

He signs Sandoval for huge money based on playoff success and has watched his D devolve and his O stifle to the point where he has to give up switch hitting.

 

He signs Hanley to huge money to play a new position forgetting that the guy is a huge clubhouse cancer, lacks attitude or motivation. His O has basically provided only power and his D has been awful.

 

And this year, holding onto Buchholz too long likely cost them a chance to get a very nice prospect haul. As it stands, I think he walks in FA.

 

Counter that with the only good move I see, as dealing Miller for E-Rod looks good long term, even though Miller is absolutely dominant at present

 

This is pretty much what has happened. The results are evident. We are joke.

 

We need a new strategy and direction. Not sure if out there, we can get someone like Friedman or Mozeliak.