2015 Red Sox In-Season Thread

[User Name]

I can see your points.

 

Although as someone who has been a manager of people for a very long time, I think that "motivating" employees is largely over blown.

 

They should come to work prepared to do the best that they can do every day.

 

I have no way of knowing if Farrell is a poor motivator. But I do see stupid and sloppy play. Maybe he needs a little more Billy Martin in him.

 

Multi-millionaire baseball players aren't cookie-cutter employees making minimum wage.

[Spudboy]

Multi-millionaire baseball players aren't cookie-cutter employees making minimum wage.

 

I'm not talking about any particular wage group. Certainly not minimum wage.

 

If anyone goes off to work and does not earn their pay because they don't feel like working hard than that is an indictment of their character and their upbringing.

 

Anyone who hires that person with the knowledge that they are that way should fail.

 

But I was brought up in a time when work was valued. People were less likely to feel entitlement.

 

Come to think of it, I never worked with anyone cut from a cookie cutter, either.

 

If billionaire owners want to pay lazy ass athletes to f*** off instead of working that is their choice and their problem. They are both loosers.

[cp176]

I'm not talking about any particular wage group. Certainly not minimum wage.

 

If anyone goes off to work and does not earn their pay because they don't feel like working hard than that is an indictment of their character and their upbringing.

 

Anyone who hires that person with the knowledge that they are that way should fail.

 

But I was brought up in a time when work was valued. People were less likely to feel entitlement.

 

Come to think of it, I never worked with anyone cut from a cookie cutter, either.

 

If billionaire owners want to pay lazy ass athletes to f*** off instead of working that is their choice and their problem. They are both loosers.

 

I would just like to hear upper management at least sound normal . Admit mistakes have been made. Move on. I think that Hanley Ramirez should never bring a glove to work. I realize that you have to deal with the Ortiz factor. If you don't move Sandoval or Ramirez, suck it up and make the tough decisions. Move on. It is going to be a while before the are competitive again. Future!

[jacksonianmarch]

So has the "we've been pretty good aside from a bad May" crowd seen the light yet, or do they still exist?

[a700hitter]

So has the "we've been pretty good aside from a bad May" crowd seen the light yet, or do they still exist?

Don't use their own words against them. That is considered mocking and bad form unless they are engaging in that behavior in addition to putting words in your mouth. This was a team that was obviously in trouble when it cam out of the gates. Anyone who couldn't see it was in denial.

[Elktonnick]

Pablo Sandoval is playing about as well as he did in San Francisco. Sandoval's value has always been as a playoff player. As bad as Hanley Ramirez has played in left field he isn't the major problem with this team. Neither has been Sandoval. Focus on them only serves to deny the main problems with this team. It begins and ends with pitching. The rotation sucks. Of the five who started the season, the only reliable one is Miley and he is at best a mediocre starter.

 

If the Sox want a better team next year they have to improve their pitching. Looking ahead to next year the rotation has four question marks. As for Buchholtz the only sure thing about him is that he will be on the DL, yet again. The FO must also improve the bullpen. Can anyone really expect both Koji and Tazawa to hold up. I certainly don't.

 

This takes me back to Sandoval and Ramirez. As we approach the trade deadline the only value both have is as trade bait. I don't expect them to bring anyone the Sox can use immediately but they may bring a solid prospect or two who may be a year away from some team needing a bat like Ramirez and a playoff ballplayer like Sandoval.

[a700hitter]

Pablo Sandoval is playing about as well as he did in San Francisco. Sandoval's value has always been as a playoff player. As bad as Hanley Ramirez has played in left field he isn't the major problem with this team. Neither has been Sandoval. Focus on them only serves to deny the main problems with this team. It begins and ends with pitching. The rotation sucks. Of the five who started the season, the only reliable one is Miley and he is at best a mediocre starter. If the Sox want a better team next year they have to improve their pitching. Looking ahead to next year the rotation has four question marks. As for Buchholtz the only sure thing about him is that he will be on the DL, yet again. The FO must also improve the bullpen. Can anyone really expect both Koji and Tazawa to hold up. I certainly don't.

 

This takes me back to Sandoval and Ramirez. As we approach the trade deadline the only value both have is as trade bait. I don't expect them to bring anyone the Sox can use immediately but they may bring a solid prospect or two who may be a year away from some team needing a bat like Ramirez and a playoff ballplayer like Sandoval.

Pardon me for adding emphasis. To anyone who thinks otherwise, I will restate it for the upteenth time. It is the pitching, stupid!!

[Northern Star]

Not at all impressed with Cherries' doublespeak. At least he owned the Hanley and Sandoval hires. So it's on him, and sorry, but Sandoval's OPS is not good enough from 3B. Certainly not when coupled by awful defense. They need to do this immediately:

 

Panda to 1B

Holt to 3B

Napoli - see ya!

 

But Cherries seems to be still deluded into thinking this team is capable of more. It's like buying a nag, and when it comes dead last in the races, keep saying "the results are not what we want, must do better." Saying something doesn't mean it's realistic.

[jacksonianmarch]

When your pitching is suspect, you need to have great defense. Enlisting a rapidly devolving defensive blob at 3b and a unmotivated infielder in LF is a really good way to show how bad your pitching is. Bad pitching can be below average with great defense. Bad pitching looks horrendous with bad D

[Northern Star]

Sandoval's value has always been as a playoff player.

 

The funny thing about playoffs is you need to get to them first.

[Bellhorn04]

Our offense has now slid back down, to 5th-worst in the league in runs scored. And we play in a hitter's park so we're really even worse than that.

 

When it comes to sucking, we are getting it done in all areas.

[Spudboy]

Our offense has now slid back down, to 5th-worst in the league in runs scored. And we play in a hitter's park so we're really even worse than that.

 

When it comes to sucking, we are getting it done in all areas.

 

Yup. But the pitching is a much bigger problem to fix.

[a700hitter]

Yup. But the pitching is a much bigger problem to fix.

it is very difficult to compete today with pitching that has an ERA over 4. We would have to prove tremendously to get to 4 and that is still not good enough to compete.

[Kimmi]

The defense of both seems to be. But otherwise, no.

 

But why ask that question? Are you assuming that anyone here is advocating replacing either or both with replacement level players? I certainly am not.

 

Of course not. I ask that question because so many people want to get rid of both of them because of the way that they have played so far. Everyone knows that they are not that bad. It's possible that they won't be worth their contract. Even so, they should be valuable contributors to the team going forward.

[Kimmi]

That was me. It only makes sense.

 

I should have known it was you.

 

After all, you are the King.

[Kimmi]

Pablo Sandoval is playing about as well as he did in San Francisco. Sandoval's value has always been as a playoff player. As bad as Hanley Ramirez has played in left field he isn't the major problem with this team. Neither has been Sandoval. Focus on them only serves to deny the main problems with this team. It begins and ends with pitching. The rotation sucks. Of the five who started the season, the only reliable one is Miley and he is at best a mediocre starter.

 

If the Sox want a better team next year they have to improve their pitching. Looking ahead to next year the rotation has four question marks. As for Buchholtz the only sure thing about him is that he will be on the DL, yet again. The FO must also improve the bullpen. Can anyone really expect both Koji and Tazawa to hold up. I certainly don't.

 

This takes me back to Sandoval and Ramirez. As we approach the trade deadline the only value both have is as trade bait. I don't expect them to bring anyone the Sox can use immediately but they may bring a solid prospect or two who may be a year away from some team needing a bat like Ramirez and a playoff ballplayer like Sandoval.

 

I agree that the FO needs to focus on pitching this offseason, both in the rotation and the bullpen. I think the offense will eventually be fine. If they do trade Hanley and/or Pablo, then they will have created other holes that need to be filled as well.

[Elktonnick]

I agree that the FO needs to focus on pitching this offseason, both in the rotation and the bullpen. I think the offense will eventually be fine. If they do trade Hanley and/or Pablo, then they will have created other holes that need to be filled as well.

 

In my view it will be easier to improve the offense then the pitching. They have big holes in the rotation and the bull pen. Sandoval isn't that great a third baseman except in playoffs. The hole at 3rd isn't as difficult to fill as getting a quality starter. The same goes with Ramirez in left. While I wouldn't just give the two away but a think a competent GM could get high quality prospects that will be better for Boston in the long run than either Sandoval and Ramirez.

 

The only flaw in my argument is that it takes a competent GM to pull it off. I have yet to see anything in Cherrington to convince me that he is that GM. And, I notice that a growing chorus of the Boston sports media are coming to the same conclusion.

[cp176]

They had an opportunity to at least hold the line from a pitching perspective. They went in a different direction. We thought that they would be in a position to purchase pitching at the trade deadline to shove them over the hump. the hump now is huge. As a matter of fact they are getting humped. They need two big time, big game pitchers for the future. If they hold the line on the thought that they absolutely will not sign anyone over the age of 30 to a multi year, then we just need to sit back and continue to watch from home. They will have painted themselves into corner with no exit. sounds good but doesn't always work.

[jacksonianmarch]

One of the biggest things I have noticed watching the sox is how much they tense up, or at least appear to. The team from 2013 didn't give a s*** if they were down and stepped on the throat when they had a lead. Now, it seems when they have a lead, they try to be too perfect, because they are not sure if their O will score and the O seems to press in big spots, presumably because they don't think their pitching can hold it down. It is a lack of trust on either side of the baseball.

[reYoukilis]

I'm sorry but I look the Astros and how they completely built themselves from the farm system and look at them now, young, winning, with lots of cash to spare. They did it right...like I thought we were doing. Unfortunately red sox fans and probably the owners don't do patience, they'll demand someone's head if they don't have it yesterday.

[Kimmi]

In my view it will be easier to improve the offense then the pitching. They have big holes in the rotation and the bull pen. Sandoval isn't that great a third baseman except in playoffs. The hole at 3rd isn't as difficult to fill as getting a quality starter. The same goes with Ramirez in left. While I wouldn't just give the two away but a think a competent GM could get high quality prospects that will be better for Boston in the long run than either Sandoval and Ramirez.

 

The only flaw in my argument is that it takes a competent GM to pull it off. I have yet to see anything in Cherrington to convince me that he is that GM. And, I notice that a growing chorus of the Boston sports media are coming to the same conclusion.

 

Sandoval isn't a great third baseman, but he should be solid, and he certainly should have been an upgrade over what we had last year. Finding someone to play LF wouldn't be that difficult. Finding another RH power bat to replace Hanley would be.

 

As far as the competence of Cherington goes, I don't think he's as incompetent as people are making him out to be. When the team stinks as badly as it does, of course the GM is going to shoulder the blame, whether deserved or not.

[jacksonianmarch]

reYouk, if you want to be the Astros, you need to suck for a LOOOOONG time. They missed the playoffs every season from 05-14 and only finished .500+ twice in that time period.

[Kimmi]

I'm sorry but I look the Astros and how they completely built themselves from the farm system and look at them now, young, winning, with lots of cash to spare. They did it right...like I thought we were doing. Unfortunately red sox fans and probably the owners don't do patience, they'll demand someone's head if they don't have it yesterday.

 

I believe I read today that the Sox have the #1 farm system in MLB. I think the owners and the FO do patience a lot better than the fans do. Not patience where they will go into rebuild mode for several years, but patience where they won't sell the farm in an attempt to bring in a superstar to "win it all this year".

[Kimmi]

They had an opportunity to at least hold the line from a pitching perspective. They went in a different direction. We thought that they would be in a position to purchase pitching at the trade deadline to shove them over the hump. the hump now is huge. As a matter of fact they are getting humped. They need two big time, big game pitchers for the future. If they hold the line on the thought that they absolutely will not sign anyone over the age of 30 to a multi year, then we just need to sit back and continue to watch from home. They will have painted themselves into corner with no exit. sounds good but doesn't always work.

 

Their strategy clearly did not work. Time to figure out how to fix this mess.

[Northern Star]

I believe I read today that the Sox have the #1 farm system in MLB. I think the owners and the FO do patience a lot better than the fans do. Not patience where they will go into rebuild mode for several years, but patience where they won't sell the farm in an attempt to bring in a superstar to "win it all this year".

 

You read that one guy rated them #1. Doesn't really mean much until the players come through.

[reYoukilis]

reYouk, if you want to be the Astros, you need to suck for a LOOOOONG time. They missed the playoffs every season from 05-14 and only finished .500+ twice in that time period.

 

Yes they did but the official gamble of only doing it with the farm system only started a few seasons ago. Before that they sucked because they weren't facing facts and were band aiding everything.

[Kimmi]

You read that one guy rated them #1. Doesn't really mean much until the players come through.

 

Of course not. But I've always believed in the philosophy that building a good team starts with the farm.

[Elktonnick]

Sandoval isn't a great third baseman, but he should be solid, and he certainly should have been an upgrade over what we had last year. Finding someone to play LF wouldn't be that difficult. Finding another RH power bat to replace Hanley would be.

 

As far as the competence of Cherington goes, I don't think he's as incompetent as people are making him out to be. When the team stinks as badly as it does, of course the GM is going to shoulder the blame, whether deserved or not.

 

When the team finishes last three out four years and the GM has nearly 200 million dollars to field a team of course he deserves the blame. If he is a GM who doesn't have the funds to build a team then I'd cut him some slack. The Red Sox, however, aren't the Tampa Bay Rays; they have money to spend. If they spend it poorly then it is squarely on the GM.

[a700hitter]

Of course not. But I've always believed in the philosophy that building a good team starts with the farm.

The farm has been barren for years in producing major league pitchers.

[Kimmi]

When the team finishes last three out four years and the GM has nearly 200 million dollars to field a team of course he deserves the blame. If he is a GM who doesn't have the funds to build a team then I'd cut him some slack. The Red Sox, however, aren't the Tampa Bay Rays; they have money to spend. If they spend it poorly then it is squarely on the GM.

 

If he spent $20 mil on a player that was a known replacement level player, he would deserve the blame. If he spends $20 mil on a player who is a 3 WAR player, then said player performs like a replacement level player, then I can't really blame the GM. A GM just cannot control what takes place on the field.