2015 Red Sox In-Season Thread

[Kimmi]

and even if they had performed up to expectations, they were two 4s two 4s and an injury prone 3 and that was not going to be good enough, but we have been around this wheel several times.

 

Our starters had a first half ERA of 4.75. You keep stating that if they performed to expectations, that would be an ERA of 4.25. As badly as they have pitched, the Sox are 6.5 games out. You're telling me that shaving half a run off their ERA would not have this team right in the thick of things?

 

The Yankees starters ERA for the first half was 4.24. Guess what place they're in?

[Bellhorn04]

Our starters had a first half ERA of 4.75. You keep stating that if they performed to expectations, that would be an ERA of 4.25. As badly as they have pitched, the Sox are 6.5 games out. You're telling me that shaving half a run off their ERA would not have this team right in the thick of things?

 

The Yankees starters ERA for the first half was 4.24. Guess what place they're in?

 

The Yanks bullpen has been a big part of their success, I think.

[a700hitter]

Our starters had a first half ERA of 4.75. You keep stating that if they performed to expectations, that would be an ERA of 4.25. As badly as they have pitched, the Sox are 6.5 games out. You're telling me that shaving half a run off their ERA would not have this team right in the thick of things?

 

The Yankees starters ERA for the first half was 4.24. Guess what place they're in?

we have been around and around this circle. IMO a team (not just the starters) with a 4.25 ERA cannot be competitive over an entire season. It wouldn't matter where we would be now. At the end of the season the 4.25 ERA would find its correct level-- not competitive. If we were in first place now, it would only serve to further Ben's belief in his very flawed approach. Edited July 17, 2015 by a700hitter

[jacksonianmarch]

Our bullpen has been a gigantic part of our success. And while the overall pen ERA is actually rather pedestrian, the bulls in the pen when the game is close are as good as they go. We are basically led by 2 top notch starters and one guy who keeps us in games, usually with short outings, and unexplained phenomenal run support (Eovaldi). Our offense and pen are more a reason for us being in first than our rotation. Regardless, having a top two of Tanaka and Pineda really helps abate big losing streaks, and there is no coincidence that our long losing stretch came when we skipped Pineda and Tanaka was on the DL

[Kimmi]

The Yanks bullpen has been a big part of their success, I think.

 

I get that. However, with all other things staying the same, even our horrendous offense in May, improving our starters' ERA from 4.75 to 4.25 over the first half of the season would surely have us right in the thick of things.

[Kimmi]

we have been around and around this circle. IMO a team (not just the starters) with a 4.25 ERA cannot be competitive over an entire season. It wouldn't matter where we would be now. At the end of the season the 4.25 ERA would find its correct level-- not competitive. If we were in first place now, it would only serve to further Ben's belief in his very flawed approach.

 

I am pretty confident that the staff for the 2nd half would be different than the staff for the first half, regardless of the injury to Clay.

[a700hitter]

I am pretty confident that the staff for the 2nd half would be different than the staff for the first half, regardless of the injury to Clay.

and we have been around this wheel too. If we were in 1st place at this juncture, imo, Ben would not have upgraded the staff. His strategy would have been working.

[jacksonianmarch]

Are you expecting an acquisition or for the corpses to reanimate?

[a700hitter]

Are you expecting an acquisition or for the corpses to reanimate?

The season is dead if they don't make a big acquisition. Then we Sox fans can sit and fret until March over whether the putz or his successor gets us a top pitcher.

[Spudboy]

I agree. You SHOULD be able to comment on everything. It's just that these fights have gotten out of hand for no reason. Poster A mentions Poster B who has them ignored, someone else jumps in and adds fuel to the fire. It wouldn't be an issue if people could learn to ignore or you know, act like a grown up. I'm all up for entertainment, it makes the site fun. I was guilty of starting up s*** too, but it wasn't constantly happening. I still love the site, but this little war we have is making me lose interest. We're all here for the same reason. Yes we disagree on things, but that's suppose to happen.....minus the insults. I would just hate to see someone get banned or lose a long time poster because he/she decided to stop posting.

 

Amen to that.

[jacksonianmarch]

Kumbaya my lord, kumbaya

[Kimmi]

and we have been around this wheel too. If we were in 1st place at this juncture, imo, Ben would not have upgraded the staff. His strategy would have been working.

 

I disagree with that. If we were in first place, I think Ben would be more likely to go for the top of the line pitcher.

[sk7326]

and we have been around this wheel too. If we were in 1st place at this juncture, imo, Ben would not have upgraded the staff. His strategy would have been working.

 

Other way around - if we were higher in the standings there would a basis to go all in. I don't think Cherington has ever thought this rotation was good enough to win 11 games in October. I think he felt confident this rotation was good enough to win 52 or more games out of 100. If the latter materialized more, then thinking about how to win the October games would be more relevant.

[a700hitter]

Other way around - if we were higher in the standings there would a basis to go all in. I don't think Cherington has ever thought this rotation was good enough to win 11 games in October. I think he felt confident this rotation was good enough to win 52 or more games out of 100. If the latter materialized more, then thinking about how to win the October games would be more relevant.

i don't agree with this argument. Do you think Ben thinks 2015 is dead for the Sox?

[sk7326]

i don't agree with this argument. Do you think Ben thinks 2015 is dead for the Sox?

 

No. But I think the team has had to show more in order to make a deal that features a mild "overpay".

 

Two months of Doyle Alexander for what turned out to be Steve Avery and John Smoltz is a poor baseball deal. It also won the Tigers the 1987 AL East. You can make a "Flags Fly Forever" argument if the team is close enough to do so. (yes I know they did not win the AL Pennant, but that does not negate the point)

[a700hitter]

No. But I think the team has had to show more in order to make a deal that features a mild "overpay".

 

Two months of Doyle Alexander for what turned out to be Steve Avery and John Smoltz is a poor baseball deal. It also won the Tigers the 1987 AL East. You can make a "Flags Fly Forever" argument if the team is close enough to do so. (yes I know they did not win the AL Pennant, but that does not negate the point)

If this team was in first place at this juncture, do you think the FO would have the opinion that this team is good enough to make a deep playoff run if they added a pitcher?

[Spudboy]

If this team was in first place at this juncture, do you think the FO would have the opinion that this team is good enough to make a deep playoff run if they added a pitcher?

 

Who knows what those guys think? But I believe that with 2 top of the rotation starters, this team could go all the way.

 

Collectively this team has performed poorly. But there is no mistaking that they still have a shitload of talent. I don't see any real powerhouse team in the AL that the Sox could not compete with if they had the pitching.

 

That to me is the source of my frustration with the Sox.

[sk7326]

If this team was in first place at this juncture, do you think the FO would have the opinion that this team is good enough to make a deep playoff run if they added a pitcher?

 

Depends on how they played. If this team had a good run differential and was playing >.500 ball? Then you have a team where one key marginal change can have a lot of bang as far as improving World Series odds. The Red Sox were in first place virtually every day of 2013, and on the "best team in baseball" shortlist the entire way but they still traded went for Peavy. Yes Buchholz' injury was relevant there, but that's the point. You saw a team that was in a position to be special and they saw a hole they HAD to fix to do it. (per their own self assesment) If this team were hitting and pitching like what was expected (your median scenario), they would be shopping hard for that restaurant quality starter.

[sk7326]

Who knows what those guys think? But I believe that with 2 top of the rotation starters, this team could go all the way.

 

Collectively this team has performed poorly. But there is no mistaking that they still have a shitload of talent. I don't see any real powerhouse team in the AL that the Sox could not compete with if they had the pitching.

 

That to me is the source of my frustration with the Sox.

 

I think it is a complicated question this year, moreso than other years. Because you are right, the division is flawed and so it can be had. But with the run differentials and whatnot, the FO has a harder go than normal doing the self assessment - the "are we really any good" question.

[a700hitter]

Depends on how they played. If this team had a good run differential and was playing >.500 ball? Then you have a team where one key marginal change can have a lot of bang as far as improving World Series odds. The Red Sox were in first place virtually every day of 2013, and on the "best team in baseball" shortlist the entire way but they still traded went for Peavy. Yes Buchholz' injury was relevant there, but that's the point. You saw a team that was in a position to be special and they saw a hole they HAD to fix to do it. (per their own self assesment) If this team were hitting and pitching like what was expected (your median scenario), they would be shopping hard for that restaurant quality starter.

You just moved the goal posts and created a whole different team. Where I was digging was to get your opinion of what Ben would do if this team (not a better team with a better run differential etc) had won 4 or 5 more games in May because the hitting was just a little better.

[sk7326]

You just moved the goal posts and created a whole different team. Where I was digging was to get your opinion of what Ben would do if this team (not a better team with a better run differential etc) had won 4 or 5 more games in May because the hitting was just a little better.

 

He'd go after a starter because it could assure a playoff spot. Same answer as the "better team" one. If there is a flavor of contention, you have to try to contend. Whether the Red Sox are actually in contention is a conflicted question. 6.5 games back is contention, but 6.5 games and several teams to hop is dicier.

[a700hitter]

He'd go after a starter because it could assure a playoff spot. Same answer as the "better team" one. If there is a flavor of contention, you have to try to contend. Whether the Red Sox are actually in contention is a conflicted question. 6.5 games back is contention, but 6.5 games and several teams to hop is dicier.

So, they don't feel that great about this team's chances. I agree that they probably don't make a big move at this point.

 

They will need to add pitching to this team for next year. I don't see a good reason not to do it now and give this team a chance to be competitive. I don't think that premium pitching will be cheaper in the off season.

[sk7326]

So, they don't feel that great about this team's chances. I agree that they probably don't make a big move at this point.

 

They will need to add pitching to this team for next year. I don't see a good reason not to do it now and give this team a chance to be competitive. I don't think that premium pitching will be cheaper in the off season.

 

i think it's possible - but there is no reason not to wait til one of the rentals is a FA. Controllable pitching I agree can be had whenever.

[a700hitter]

Buchholz is going to see Andrews for a second opinion on his elbow.

[User Name]

TJ surgery, see ya in 2017.

[SoxHop]

TJ surgery, see ya in 2017.

 

f***...... it isn't just something minor..........

 

God Speed Buch..........that might have been the last game in a Sox uniform. Which would be a fitting ending.

[Kimmi]

f***...... it isn't just something minor..........

 

God Speed Buch..........that might have been the last game in a Sox uniform. Which would be a fitting ending.

 

What I read was that he was going more for peace of mind than for any real concern.

 

Not that we should necessarily believe that.

[jacksonianmarch]

Didn't he need "peace of mind" about his shoulder too? He sounds like a gigantic wimp.

[a700hitter]

Didn't he need "peace of mind" about his shoulder too? He sounds like a gigantic wimp.

 

He's delicate, which is why he converted his charity bowling outing to nerf bowling.

[Bellhorn04]

Didn't he need "peace of mind" about his shoulder too? He sounds like a gigantic wimp.

 

Buchholz is a flake, no question. But for a 30-year old pitcher with no 2016 contract, being concerned about the health of his pitching elbow doesn't really make him a wimp.