Golf

[Bellhorn04]

Masters weekend, baby. 21-year old Texan Jordan Spieth takes a 5-stroke lead into the third round. This kid has been playing incredible golf. I think he will get it done, but you never know in this game.

 

Some other stories of this Masters:

 

Rory McIlroy came to Augusta looking to win his third major championship in a row and to complete the 'career Grand Slam' of the four major titles. But he sits 12 strokes back of Spieth.

 

Bubba Watson came in looking to become the fourth man to win back-to-back Masters titles (Nicklaus, Faldo, Tiger) and his third green jacket in four years. He also sits 12 strokes back of Spieth.

 

Tiger Woods returned from a self-imposed hiatus during which there was much speculation he might be done. He has played quite well all things considered. But, you guessed it, 12 strokes back.

 

Ben Crenshaw, another Texan and one of the most mystical figures in golf history, played in his last Masters 20 years after winning his second green jacket in storybook fashion. Monday night there will be a show on the Golf Channel about that 1995 Masters, and I expect it will be fantastic.

 

Dustin Johnson had an incredible 3 eagles in yesterday's round and sits 7 strokes back. Johnson is yet another Texan who can hit the ball obscene distances. He is married to Wayne Gretzky's daughter Paulina. He has certain issues which culminated in a 6-month vacation from the tour recently, widely rumored, but not confirmed by the Tour in accordance with their policy, to have been for cocaine use.

[Thunder]

I'm looking forward to this weekend. Tiger's playing with Sergio today, how fun. Being so young myself, I'm a huge Spieth fan (as well as Rickie), and wouldn't mind in the slightest seeing him win, but I like seeing it be close. Tomorrow, I will be forced to watch the final round on my phone as we trek the long drive to West Virginia.

[Kimmi]

This golf thread is not as exciting as your previous golf thread.

 

Just kidding. Very informative, for those who are into golf.

[Bellhorn04]

This golf thread is not as exciting as your previous golf thread.

 

Kimmi, I would have been disappointed if you didn't mention that.

 

I'm making a rule for myself on this thread. The only pictures of women I put up will be of LPGA golfers.

[Bellhorn04]

For a moment today, it looked like Spieth had put this thing in the history books, opening a 7-stroke lead after birdieing 15 and 16. But about fifteen minutes later, his lead was suddenly down to 4, after he double-bogeyed 17, and Justin Rose birdied 18. That's what can happen on this golf course, where there are plenty of birdie chances and also opportunities to blow up in a hurry.

 

It's Spieth and Rose in the final group at -16 and -12. In the group ahead of them are Phil Mickelson at -11 and Charley Hoffman at -10.

Edited April 12, 2015 by Bellhorn04

[cp176]

Kimmi sorry - Jordan Spieth is just clutch. We will see how it goes. If he backs up, I will retract.

[Bellhorn04]

Golf is one sport where the terms clutch and choke are used freely and no one ever denies their existence. Golf depends so much on one's mind and nerves and how well they withstand pressure.

[Kimmi]

I think the sport of golf needs to do some research on the topic of clutch. Perhaps no one ever denies the existence of clutch and choke because no one has ever challenged it?

 

Maybe clutch does exist in the world of golf. Or maybe the guys who appear clutch are just good, period.

 

I honestly don't know.

[User Name]

Golf= Golfer vs ball.

 

Baseball= Batter vs pitcher.

 

There's a factor present in one that's not present in the other that's very important. The existence of the pitcher significantly muddies the waters. A perfectly executed sequence by a pitcher during an AB pretty much makes it impossible for a batter to succeed.

[Kimmi]

Golf= Golfer vs ball.

 

Baseball= Batter vs pitcher.

 

There's a factor present in one that's not present in the other that's very important. The existence of the pitcher significantly muddies the waters. A perfectly executed sequence by a pitcher during an AB pretty much makes it impossible for a batter to succeed.

 

 

This is a very valid point.

[Spudboy]

This is a very valid point.

 

Golf is sort of like billiards. Mostly skill controllable by the player being paramount. Of course the opponent can leave you in a bad position. But your own skill has much more to do with the end result.

 

The common aspect is overall talent. If you suck, you won't be clutch. If you are very talented, you may be seen as clutch.

 

Am I making any sense at all?

[a700hitter]

I think the sport of golf needs to do some research on the topic of clutch. Perhaps no one ever denies the existence of clutch and choke because no one has ever challenged it?

 

Maybe clutch does exist in the world of golf. Or maybe the guys who appear clutch are just good, period.

 

I honestly don't know.

Thomas Boswell has written extensively about golf. Choking is no secret in golf. Everyone knows it exists. Clutch players are simply those who choke less. You are all caught up in whether stats can prove that a player plays better in big spots. The clutch player doesn't get better in big spots. His abilities are what they are. The so-called "clutch" factor is that he doesn't let the emotions or distractions or pressure interfere with his performance. Boswell has written that every golfer acknowledges choking, but no one has ever seen Nicklaus choke, which is why he is god-like among professional golfers.

[Kimmi]

Golf is sort of like billiards. Mostly skill controllable by the player being paramount. Of course the opponent can leave you in a bad position. But your own skill has much more to do with the end result.

 

The common aspect is overall talent. If you suck, you won't be clutch. If you are very talented, you may be seen as clutch.

 

Am I making any sense at all?

 

 

You make perfect sense Spud. And I agree.

[Kimmi]

Thomas Boswell has written extensively about golf. Choking is no secret in golf. Everyone knows it exists. Clutch players are simply those who choke less. You are all caught up in whether stats can prove that a player plays better in big spots. The clutch player doesn't get better in big spots. His abilities are what they are. The so-called "clutch" factor is that he doesn't let the emotions or distractions or pressure interfere with his performance. Boswell has written that every golfer acknowledges choking, but no one has ever seen Nicklaus choke, which is why he is god-like among professional golfers.

 

 

No, I'm not caught up in whether a player can play better in big spots. We already know that does not happen. I have agreed with others that there are those that choke, or can't handle the pressure as well as others. I just think that they've been weeded out before reaching the major league level.

 

I have also acknowledged that golf may be a different animal than baseball, when it comes to clutch and choking.

[a700hitter]

No, I'm not caught up in whether a player can play better in big spots. We already know that does not happen. I have agreed with others that there are those that choke, or can't handle the pressure as well as others. I just think that they've been weeded out before reaching the major league level.

 

I have also acknowledged that golf may be a different animal than baseball, when it comes to clutch and choking.

I don't think professional golfers are any different from other professional athletes when it comes to handling pressure. Golf may be the toughest game of all. If you don't start young, you can just never be a big tour player. World class athletes from other sports have tried to get on the tour. I can't think of any that have succeeded to any significant extent. The number of golfers on the PGA Tour is a lot smaller than the number of MLB players. Golfers have been tested through high pressure situations just as much as MLB players and there is no reason to think that they aren't just as mentally tough as athletes in other sports.

 

Golf may be the most robotic of all sports, because the ball is not moving like in other sports. The golf stroke is one honed through repetition more so than other sports, because the stroke is the whole sport. There is no defense, no base running, no fielding skills that have to be mastered.

 

The fact that in baseball you are competing against a pitcher and not a stationary ball does muddy the waters on this issue. Both competitors (pitcher and batter) might be completely calm and performing up to his abilities. Both might be choking, but it would be hard for an observer to tell, because they are still really good even when choking. Rest assured the player who is choking knows it, but they will never admit it and give their opponent an edge.

[Bellhorn04]

I don't think professional golfers are any different from other professional athletes when it comes to handling pressure. Golf may be the toughest game of all. If you don't start young, you can just never be a big tour player. World class athletes from other sports have tried to get on the tour. I can't think of any that have succeeded to any significant extent. The number of golfers on the PGA Tour is a lot smaller than the number of MLB players. Golfers have been tested through high pressure situations just as much as MLB players and there is no reason to think that they aren't just as mentally tough as athletes in other sports.

 

Golf may be the most robotic of all sports, because the ball is not moving like in other sports. The golf stroke is one honed through repetition more so than other sports, because the stroke is the whole sport. There is no defense, no base running, no fielding skills that have to be mastered.

 

The fact that in baseball you are competing against a pitcher and not a stationary ball does muddy the waters on this issue. Both competitors (pitcher and batter) might be completely calm and performing up to his abilities. Both might be choking, but it would be hard for an observer to tell, because they are still really good even when choking. Rest assured the player who is choking knows it, but they will never admit it and give their opponent an edge.

 

All you have to do is listen to Johnny Miller on NBC. He talks about players choking, or making bad shots because of nerves, all the time. And he's a pretty good authority considering he won a US Open and a British Open and was probably the #2 player after Nicklaus for a stretch of a few years.

[cp176]

I don't think professional golfers are any different from other professional athletes when it comes to handling pressure. Golf may be the toughest game of all. If you don't start young, you can just never be a big tour player. World class athletes from other sports have tried to get on the tour. I can't think of any that have succeeded to any significant extent. The number of golfers on the PGA Tour is a lot smaller than the number of MLB players. Golfers have been tested through high pressure situations just as much as MLB players and there is no reason to think that they aren't just as mentally tough as athletes in other sports.

 

 

 

Golf may be the most robotic of all sports, because the ball is not moving like in other sports. The golf stroke is one honed through repetition more so than other sports, because the stroke is the whole sport. There is no defense, no base running, no fielding skills that have to be mastered.

 

The fact that in baseball you are competing against a pitcher and not a stationary ball does muddy the waters on this issue. Both competitors (pitcher and batter) might be completely calm and performing up to his abilities. Both might be choking, but it would be hard for an observer to tell, because they are still really good even when choking. Rest assured the player who is choking knows it, but they will never admit it and give their opponent an edge.

 

Very good post. If anyone has had the good fortune to be a low handicapper here you know the difficulties and complexities of this game. I know a little bit about the game and I can say with certainty that I know 12 handicappers that I would much prefer to stand over a meaningful putt than me. I might be better than them day to day but when the larger money is on the line there are those that deal with it better. It doesn't make them better just better in certain situations. I can only speak for amateur athletics but there are them that can get it done under the gun better than others. Maybe they are clutch maybe they choke less, I don't know, but it happens and I have to say that sometimes it really pisses me off. Over and out on this subject for me. I can only speak for what I personally have and do experience.

[Bellhorn04]

Golf may be the most robotic of all sports, because the ball is not moving like in other sports. The golf stroke is one honed through repetition more so than other sports, because the stroke is the whole sport. There is no defense, no base running, no fielding skills that have to be mastered.

 

I agree with that. To me this is what makes golf similar to baseball: the golf swing, the hitting stroke and the pitching motion are all skills that require a huge amount of repetition. It's like training the body to be a machine, to do the same thing correctly over and over. It might take only one small thing wrong with the mechanics to cause bad results. Most golfers, hitters and pitchers are constantly finding it and losing it and finding it again. They get red hot for a while, then they go into deep slumps for a while.

 

None of that has anything to do with clutch. I just find some of the similarities between the two sports interesting.

[Bellhorn04]

There's a sports celebrity golf tournament every year. It can be interesting to see some of the guys from other sports who are elite golfers, like Tony Romo and John Smoltz.

 

Michael Jordan and Jerry Rice both had notions of trying for the PGA tour. Both got a rude awakening when they played against other pro-level players on pro-level courses. They were way over their heads.

[a700hitter]

There's a sports celebrity golf tournament every year. It can be interesting to see some of the guys from other sports who are elite golfers, like Tony Romo and John Smoltz.

 

Michael Jordan and Jerry Rice both had notions of trying for the PGA tour. Both got a rude awakening when they played against other pro-level players on pro-level courses. They were way over their heads.

Yep. I have talked to some scratch amateur golfers about their experiences being around the pros. They express awe about what the pros can do just in practice. They are a different breed of cat, and the best professional athlete from other sports with eagle-eye vision, great hand-eye coordination and thousands of rounds under his belt can't compete at the professional level of golf.

[Northern Star]

I'm glad Speith won.

[Bellhorn04]

I'm glad Speith won.

 

Same. What a cool customer for a 21-year old.

[cp176]

Speith is a great breath of fresh air in the world of sports today. Whether you golf or even like golf, he represents something good about the sports world.

[cp176]

One thing I do like about this game is the lack of guaranteed contracts. You get what you earn.

[seabeachfred]

Speith is a great breath of fresh air in the world of sports today. Whether you golf or even like golf, he represents something good about the sports world.

 

Twenty-one years old and coolness and confidence like that? I can't remember any athlete that young that was so cool under fire. You said it right CP---what a breath of fresh air. Once he took off on Thursday I was rooting like blazes for him to win. I kept thinking he might fold with all those previous winners breathing down his neck but he only bowed his and finished with a bang. He didn't choke......if I may use that word here.

[Bellhorn04]

Canadian golf fans now have a potential star to root for in the women's game. 17-year old Brooke Henderson finished third in last week's event and is leading after the second round of this week's. Female golfers really seem to mature faster than males do. Much has made been made about 21-year old Jordan Spieth reaching the top of the men's game. But the #1 female player, Lydia Ko, just turned 18.

 

I watch a lot of LPGA golf because, well, I'm a golf junkie, but the LPGA tour is really happening, in my opinion.

[Kimmi]

I watch a lot of LPGA golf because, well, I'm a golf junkie, but the LPGA tour is really happening, in my opinion.

 

I'm not sure that's the real reason you watch the LPGA, but okay. LOL

 

You know I had to get that jab in.

[Bellhorn04]

I'm not sure that's the real reason you watch the LPGA, but okay. LOL

 

You know I had to get that jab in.

 

No you're absolutely right, Kimmi. No sense denying it. Part of the reason I watch is that some of the women players are smokin' hot.

[cp176]

No you're absolutely right, Kimmi. No sense denying it. Part of the reason I watch is that some of the women players are smokin' hot.

 

Just read this thread. I like your enthusiasm for a game I have battled with for 50 years. Canada has produced a great many fine golfers. I am a big Graham DeLaet (sp) fan. I had the same back surgery he had and followed his recovery time-line as well. Tiger would have been better off I think if he had waited longer. If DaLaet could putt like Speith, he would be a multiple major s winner by now. No one strikes the ball better than him in today's game. The Henderson kid can really play by the way.

[Bellhorn04]

Just read this thread. I like your enthusiasm for a game I have battled with for 50 years. Canada has produced a great many fine golfers. I am a big Graham DeLaet (sp) fan. I had the same back surgery he had and followed his recovery time-line as well. Tiger would have been better off I think if he had waited longer. If DaLaet could putt like Speith, he would be a multiple major s winner by now. No one strikes the ball better than him in today's game. The Henderson kid can really play by the way.

 

Another Canadian, David Hearn, is T3 at the Players after 2 rounds.