JBJ's Spring

[Ogden]

Ray Culp and Rick Wise. Two pretty good ones in their day. I am on a personal crusade to not look up anything on the internet so I will just ask - I think that you will know. Didn't Reggie Smith go tho the Dodgers?

 

 

cp, are you boycotting google for a reason? Are you picketing or maybe going on youtube with rants?

[cp176]

cp, are you boycotting google for a reason? Are you picketing or maybe going on youtube with rants?

 

I could do that youtube thing. That's what I was just doing - Larry Bird highlights. I'm technologically challenged and I think that every freakin catcher in mlb baseball knows how to frame the freakin plate. Some do it better than others. I still like a catcher who can throw runners out and help hold runners on first base. All these stats coming at me off the internet are rattling my brain. If a great defensive catcher who can't hit might be worth 2 extra wins then I'll take my chances with a slightly above average catcher with a good arm who can pound the ball and beat up opponents any day. That's my rant . Now I am off to bed. Ogden - Was this the thread where I was supposed to feel bad for our team because we lost Vasquez for an extended time? I am starting to sound like guys from Boston drive!

[cp176]

At least no one has suggested that this year's team will be a better hitting team than that 77 team. That ain't happening. Might be a wash on the mound though.

[Ogden]

Tom Yawkey's relationship with black players was ... flawed

 

 

It's funny how some residents, politicians, talk show hosts (WGBH) think that the Boston area is so open minded and progressive when it comes to race, when in actuality they may be pandering to their own guilt of how they think about race. When the camera pans the stands at Fenway, how many black people do you see? Whether they are avoiding Fenway because of Red Sox history, or because baseball is less popular in the black community, or some other reason is not for me to answer. There is a great book by Howard Bryant (former Herald writer) about the way the Red Sox dealt with black players through the 70s and 80s. Here is a link to an interview with him.

 

http://www.hardballtimes.com/hardballquestions-howardbryant/

[a700hitter]

It's funny how some residents, politicians, talk show hosts (WGBH) think that the Boston area is so open minded and progressive when it comes to race, when in actuality they may be pandering to their own guilt of how they think about race. When the camera pans the stands at Fenway, how many black people do you see? Whether they are avoiding Fenway because of Red Sox history, or because baseball is less popular in the black community, or some other reason is not for me to answer. There is a great book by Howard Bryant (former Herald writer) about the way the Red Sox dealt with black players through the 70s and 80s. Here is a link to an interview with him.

 

http://www.hardballtimes.com/hardballquestions-howardbryant/

The lack of black faces at sporting events is pretty widespread. First of all, they are only 13% of the population and they are at the bottom of the economy. I don't think the lack of black fans at Fenway is a remnant of past racial intolerance by the Red Sox.

[Dojji]

Not to mention that New England in general, which is where the Sox draw their fans from of course, is the whitest region in the United States. Three of the 5 whitest states in the Union are New England states (Maine, Vermont and IIRC Rhode Island). Boston's a major city so they'll have more minorities than some of the countryside states, but the region as a whole is pretty danged white.

 

Can they buy a ticket with no more muss and fuss than any of the rest of us, yes. Do they get the same kind of service in the park as a white man would, for the most part yes. OK, then we deal with any exceptions on a case by case basis and we're done. Next question please.

 

Quite frankly as long as a black man who pays his fare gets reasonable treatment I don't give a damn how many of them there are. Worrying about headcount is the kind of affirmative action BS that's dragging the whole civil rights movement into the gutter and throwing a lot of the Republicans who used to form the backbone of that movement during the Strom Thurmond/George Wallace era of the Democratic Party (IE before the northern Dems told the Dixiecrats to sit down and shut up) away from the movement entirely. This crap used to be bipartisan, and it could be again if the civil rights movements stopped fretting so much over racial and ethnic quotas for everything and worried more about actual, you know, RIGHTS.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Dojji

[mvp 78]

Go back to having boners over middling prospects. Those posts make more sense than this one Dojji.

[Spudboy]

Racism exist everywhere.

 

The Boston area is no different.

 

Let's get back to baseball.

 

I still think JBJ is going to make it as a regular MLB player. Most likely somewhere else. I hope that it happens soon for the kid. He is getting older.

[a700hitter]

Racism exist everywhere.

 

The Boston area is no different.

 

Let's get back to baseball.

 

I still think JBJ is going to make it as a regular MLB player. Most likely somewhere else. I hope that it happens soon for the kid. He is getting older.

+1.

[sk7326]

Racism exist everywhere.

 

The Boston area is no different.

 

Let's get back to baseball.

 

I still think JBJ is going to make it as a regular MLB player. Most likely somewhere else. I hope that it happens soon for the kid. He is getting older.

 

Agreed sort of - although the yawning gap in time between Jackie Robinson and Pumpsie Green is baseball too. It's a part of the Red Sox legacy (under Yawkey) and it materially affected the ability to put championship teams out there. As a consequence I suppose, it made the Tiant stars and the Pedro ones such atypically joyous events.

[Dojji]

Did anyone here have any problem with Coco Crisp being out there everyday in center?

 

No? Of course not. He did his job, and was an elite defender while providing enough stick to justify his place in the everyday lineup.

 

With that in mind I think we can put the idea that racism played any role in JBJ's role or lack thereof in the big league team completely to bed. Racism isn't keeping JBJ out of the lineup. JBJ getting a chance to play everyday and puking on his own shoes over the course of the 2014 season kept JBJ out of the lineup. We were all excited to see what he could do before that happened.

 

Do you guys realize we gave a guy who was hitting below the Mendoza line over 400 PA's to figure it out last year? If anything, that was the team being unreasonably generous And the fact that with a glut of outfield talent this year this sub-200 hitter gets a third string assignment is in any way racist? Please. He has the role on the team he earned, no more and no less. That's how it works in the big market.

[Bellhorn04]

Did anyone here have any problem with Coco Crisp being out there everyday in center?

 

No? Of course not. He did his job, and was an elite defender while providing enough stick to justify his place in the everyday lineup.

 

With that in mind I think we can put the idea that racism played any role in JBJ's role or lack thereof in the big league team completely to bed. Racism isn't keeping JBJ out of the lineup. JBJ getting a chance to play everyday and puking on his own shoes over the course of the 2014 season kept JBJ out of the lineup. We were all excited to see what he could do before that happened.

 

Do you guys realize we gave a guy who was hitting below the Mendoza line over 400 PA's to figure it out last year? If anything, that was the team being unreasonably generous And the fact that with a glut of outfield talent this year this sub-200 hitter gets a third string assignment is in any way racist? Please. He has the role on the team he earned, no more and no less. That's how it works in the big market.

 

Pretty sure nobody was suggesting racism had anything to do with JBJ. Two separate discussions going on there.

[Spudboy]

Pretty sure nobody was suggesting racism had anything to do with JBJ. Two separate discussions going on there.

 

Yeah. That's what I see. JBJ did not hit. It's that simple.

[sk7326]

Did anyone here have any problem with Coco Crisp being out there everyday in center?

 

No? Of course not. He did his job, and was an elite defender while providing enough stick to justify his place in the everyday lineup.

 

With that in mind I think we can put the idea that racism played any role in JBJ's role or lack thereof in the big league team completely to bed. Racism isn't keeping JBJ out of the lineup. JBJ getting a chance to play everyday and puking on his own shoes over the course of the 2014 season kept JBJ out of the lineup. We were all excited to see what he could do before that happened.

 

Do you guys realize we gave a guy who was hitting below the Mendoza line over 400 PA's to figure it out last year? If anything, that was the team being unreasonably generous And the fact that with a glut of outfield talent this year this sub-200 hitter gets a third string assignment is in any way racist? Please. He has the role on the team he earned, no more and no less. That's how it works in the big market.

 

I think the race discussion as it were was about the former owner - that stuff certainly does not resonate now. Pedro and Papi more or less fixed that for good. I think you are confusing topics here. There was significant evidence of a self-imposed quota on non-white players in Yawkey's time.

 

As far as JBJ goes - he kept getting chances because he was a special defensive player, and he was not going to learn anything at AAA - he had shown he could hit minor league pitching after all. But as long as he kept thinking he needed to hit homeruns, his approach was fatally infected.

[Dojji]

Ahh, sorry. I'm dead tired today, on the cusp of a promotion at work and trying reallllly hard to get myself over the top, and reading comprehension isn't up to par as a result.

[mvp 78]

Coco Crap...

[gojohn99]

Did you see the Coco Crisp is out for 6-8 weeks now? Maybe the A's want JBJ. JBJ has hit well in spring training, but I think he's the odd man out and will end up in Pawtucket. The PawSox should have a good team, Swihart, JBJ, H Owens, Cecchini.

[Dojji]

Coco Crap...

 

Are you trolling or did you really honestly underestimate Crisp this badly?

[Spudboy]

Ahh, sorry. I'm dead tired today, on the cusp of a promotion at work and trying reallllly hard to get myself over the top, and reading comprehension isn't up to par as a result.

 

Good luck with the promotion Dojji.

[Dojji]

Thanks. It's me and one other person for a supervisor position. I think I have hearts and minds on my side, but the other person has a whole heck of a lot more practical experience. We'll see how it goes.

[mvp 78]

Are you trolling or did you really honestly underestimate Crisp this badly?

 

I liked him just fine. I just remember a lot of people calling him Coco Crap. Not everyone was happy with his performance.

[Spudboy]

I always wanted Coco to get into a real brawl so I could see if his Father's Golden Glove skills had been acquired.

 

Other than that, I was satisfied with his performance here. I did hate his rag arm, though.

[mvp 78]

[Kimmi]

I could do that youtube thing. That's what I was just doing - Larry Bird highlights. I'm technologically challenged and I think that every freakin catcher in mlb baseball knows how to frame the freakin plate. Some do it better than others. I still like a catcher who can throw runners out and help hold runners on first base. All these stats coming at me off the internet are rattling my brain. If a great defensive catcher who can't hit might be worth 2 extra wins then I'll take my chances with a slightly above average catcher with a good arm who can pound the ball and beat up opponents any day. That's my rant . Now I am off to bed. Ogden - Was this the thread where I was supposed to feel bad for our team because we lost Vasquez for an extended time? I am starting to sound like guys from Boston drive!

 

 

Sorry, but not every freakin catcher in MLB baseball knows how to frame the freakin plate. Some are terrible at it, and actually cost their pitchers some runs. And I will say again that of all of the defensive attributes of a catcher, CS% is the least important. While stolen bases have their importance (like Roberts steal in 2003), they are mostly overrated in more ways than one.

[Spudboy]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]247[/ATTACH]

 

I remember a couple of scuffles. I don't remember seeing him really get into it though. I wanted to see some whup ass.

[Kimmi]

I remember a couple of scuffles. I don't remember seeing him really get into it though. I wanted to see some whup ass.

 

 

I hate it when the players get into brawls.

 

I will never understand the appeal of boxing.

[Spudboy]

Sorry, but not every freakin catcher in MLB baseball knows how to frame the freakin plate. Some are terrible at it, and actually cost their pitchers some runs. And I will say again that of all of the defensive attributes of a catcher, CS% is the least important. While stolen bases have their importance (like Roberts steal in 2003), they are mostly overrated in more ways than one.

 

Still, I think that preventing runners from advancing on steals, etc. this year could have meant a lot to this staff. You are probably correct in saying that CS% is not all that ( especially on a team like the Sox where a lot of emphasis is put on pitchers on the batter ). I think that this year his ability to discourage and prevent runners from stealing would have meant more.

 

I just hope that the Kid comes back strong next year one way or another. He is still an asset to this team.

[Spudboy]

I hate it when the players get into brawls.

 

I will never understand the appeal of boxing.

 

You don't have to like or dislike it. It is usually quite a funny and sometimes scary part of baseball.

 

Seeing the Gerbil thrown to the ground by Pedro while a little disturbing was, well, fun.

 

Seeing Bill Lee have his career ruined was not fun.

[Kimmi]

Still, I think that preventing runners from advancing on steals, etc. this year could have meant a lot to this staff. You are probably correct in saying that CS% is not all that ( especially on a team like the Sox where a lot of emphasis is put on pitchers on the batter ). I think that this year his ability to discourage and prevent runners from stealing would have meant more.

 

I just hope that the Kid comes back strong next year one way or another. He is still an asset to this team.

 

 

I'm not saying that preventing stolen bases is not important, just that it is the least important of a catcher's attributes. That said, I agree with you that Vazquez' ability to prevent stolen bases would have meant more with our mediocre, groundball inducing staff than it would have meant with some other staffs.

[cp176]

Sorry, but not every freakin catcher in MLB baseball knows how to frame the freakin plate. Some are terrible at it, and actually cost their pitchers some runs. And I will say again that of all of the defensive attributes of a catcher, CS% is the least important. While stolen bases have their importance (like Roberts steal in 2003), they are mostly overrated in more ways than one.

 

If they have not been taught to frame the plate they are not playing major league baseball. Some are better at it than others for sure. I would always take my chances with an average plate framer who can keep the ball in front of him and who can help to keep runners from advancing if he is a hitter as well. I truly understand the value of a great catcher but I do not consider losing Vasquez as all that significant. i feel badly for him. You've made your feelings for Vasquez well known. Thats good. I was looking forward to seeing him this year as well. I hope that he comes back but I don't feel that losing him is that big a deal.