Let the Swihart watch begin

[User Name]

The main point of my post was that a catcher is more important to run preventíon that a ss. That is not arguable. The other is that for all the whining about xb's defense, he could improve. That is a possibility.

 

For the lot of you who think that overall D can't help negate for some ss's defensive deficiencies, you are dead wrong. With the advent of defensive shifts around baseball, and with a team as research-inclined as this one, shifts will absolutely impact overall defensive efficiency for this team next year. Having good defenders to either side will absolutely help Bogaerts mask some of his deficiencies, and this isn't something left to the eye test, it can and will be quantified. Hit me up again next year regarding this subject.

 

And jacko, as always, you speak half truth here. Again, defensive shifts make a major impact now that wasn't around during Jeter's prime.

[Spudboy]

The main point of my post was that a catcher is more important to run preventíon that a ss. That is not arguable. The other is that for all the whining about xb's defense, he could improve. That is a possibility.

 

For the lot of you who think that overall D can't help negate for some ss's defensive deficiencies, you are dead wrong. With the advent of defensive shifts around baseball, and with a team as research-inclined as this one, shifts will absolutely impact overall defensive efficiency for this team next year. Having good defenders to either side will absolutely help Bogaerts mask some of his deficiencies, and this isn't something left to the eye test, it can and will be quantified. Hit me up again next year regarding this subject.

 

And jacko, as always, you speak half truth here. Again, defensive shifts make a major impact now that wasn't around during Jeter's prime.

 

Good post.

 

Also, I saw interviews with Ortiz and Prince Fielder before the 2014 season started. Both said that the shift is much more of an effect on their BA / OBP / OPS. Ortiz says it means about 30-50 points lost. Fielder says that it is not so easy to become good at hitting against the shift.

 

Personally, while I see it as an obvious thing to do especially with computers making it so easy, I hate the shift. I like seeing singles and doubles not ground outs to right field.

 

Shifts can definitely have an impact on a defensive player as well. That should be obvious, too.

[cp176]

The main point of my post was that a catcher is more important to run preventíon that a ss. That is not arguable. The other is that for all the whining about xb's defense, he could improve. That is a possibility.

 

For the lot of you who think that overall D can't help negate for some ss's defensive deficiencies, you are dead wrong. With the advent of defensive shifts around baseball, and with a team as research-inclined as this one, shifts will absolutely impact overall defensive efficiency for this team next year. Having good defenders to either side will absolutely help Bogaerts mask some of his deficiencies, and this isn't something left to the eye test, it can and will be quantified. Hit me up again next year regarding this subject.

 

And jacko, as always, you speak half truth here. Again, defensive shifts make a major impact now that wasn't around during Jeter's prime.

 

Truly anyone who thinks that you can mask a player's inabilities in the field via any shift is probably someone whose opinion I don't value. Good luck to you and all your special thoughts. I am not an XB hater. I want him to make it but I would be pleasantly surprised with respect to his abilities in the field. I do think that he will hit. Let it go or whatever.

[a700hitter]

Shifts are always fads. They started in the 1940's with the Boudreau shift on TeddyBallgame. The shifts of today made popular by genius, Joe Maddon and copied by everyone will start to fade. Moving everyone to one side of the diamond should be done sparingly and only against the games best power hitters. Even if they decide to take the ball the other way, you take their strength away. You'll cede the single to keep the ball in the yard. The trouble is that there are only a few hitters who are that dangerous, yet the shifts are done much more than that.

 

The rest of the league who are not big thumpers will learn to take the singles. Also, pitchers will start to get fed up with it because in many ways it takes away the outside part of the plate when the pitcher gets 2 strikes on a hitter. Nothing pisses off a pitcher more than getting ahead 0-2 and having the guy get a cheapie the other way that fielder would have caught but for the shift.

Edited December 26, 2014 by a700hitter

[cp176]

Shifts are always fads. They started in the 1940's with the Boudreau shift on TeddyBallgame. The shifts of today made popular by genius, Joe Maddon and copied by everyone will start to fade. Moving everyone to one side of the diamond should be done sparingly and only against the games best power hitters. Even if they decide to take the ball the other way, you take their strength away. You'll cede the single to keep the ball in the yard. The trouble is that there are only a few hitters who are that dangerous, yet the shifts are done much more than that.

 

The rest of the league who are not big thumpers will learn to take the singles. Also, pitchers will start to get fed up with it because in many ways it takes away the outside part of the plate when the pitcher gets 2 strikes on a hitter. Nothing pisses off a pitcher more than getting ahead 0-2 and having the guy get a cheapie the other way that fielder would have caught but for the shift.

 

Maddon will have his fun with the Cubs for sure. I agree with respect to your comments about the shift. I watched Ted ignore them. A lot of people bitched about his approach and felt that he should hit away from them. I think that he did alright doing what he did. Let's see how Madden's shifts work out in the National League.

[Bellhorn04]

Shifts will be around until we see some upswing in offensive numbers again.

[seabeachfred]

Shifts will be around until we see some upswing in offensive numbers again.

 

Those posters like User who insist that these shifts can mask defensive deficiencies will hold a lot of water and be fairly accurate as long as hitters try and hit through the shift. It was fine for Ted Williams because he was arguably the greatest hitter who ever lived if you take average, home runs, RBI's, OBP and other things into consideration. However, for others it could add up to decreased production and effectiveness as a hitter. As one who coached for over 30 years I was able to help most of my players learn to hit to the opposite field. It really wasn't all that difficult for the most part, and I was dealing with amateur players and a few who barely got a couple of years in the low minors. If they could do it these Major League hitters with five to ten times the talent should be able to learn those basics from the time they sign until they reach the Bigs. Major League batting coaches are pretty talented and smart teachers and it hard to believe they couldn't teach players to use the whole field unless the players are stubborn and simply don't want to learn those skills.

[User Name]

Truly anyone who thinks that you can mask a player's inabilities in the field via any shift is probably someone whose opinion I don't value. Good luck to you and all your special thoughts. I am not an XB hater. I want him to make it but I would be pleasantly surprised with respect to his abilities in the field. I do think that he will hit. Let it go or whatever.

 

Then you don't value the opinion of a lot of people who know a hell of a lot more about baseball than you or i do. Good luck with that.

 

Also, this is a forum geared towards baseball discussion in general, especifically referring to the Boston Red Sox. I am discussing the Red Sox. If you don't like it, feel free to either stop whining, continue the discussion, or put me on ignore.

Edited December 27, 2014 by User Name?

[User Name]

Shifts will be around until we see some upswing in offensive numbers again.

 

Power needs to improve. You can't shift around a home run, but in the meantime, they will continue to suppress offensive production, as has been quantifiably proven. Numbers don't lie, yet opinions are like *******s and all that.

[cp176]

Then you don't value the opinion of a lot of people who know a hell of a lot more about baseball than you or i do. Good luck with that.

 

Also, this is a forum geared towards baseball discussion in general, especifically referring to the Boston Red Sox. I am discussing the Red Sox. If you don't like it, feel free to either stop whining, continue the discussion, or put me on ignore.

 

Ooh - I have been scolded. Like reading your posts buddy, just don't agree with everything you say.

[jacksonianmarch]

The main point of my post was that a catcher is more important to run preventíon that a ss. That is not arguable. The other is that for all the whining about xb's defense, he could improve. That is a possibility.

 

For the lot of you who think that overall D can't help negate for some ss's defensive deficiencies, you are dead wrong. With the advent of defensive shifts around baseball, and with a team as research-inclined as this one, shifts will absolutely impact overall defensive efficiency for this team next year. Having good defenders to either side will absolutely help Bogaerts mask some of his deficiencies, and this isn't something left to the eye test, it can and will be quantified. Hit me up again next year regarding this subject.

 

And jacko, as always, you speak half truth here. Again, defensive shifts make a major impact now that wasn't around during Jeter's prime.

 

Can't you just admit you're wrong here? Yes, shifts are more prevalent now. But the LH shift usually leaves the SS all alone on the left side of the diamond, which will only exacerbate the problem should a ball get hit his way. You are telling me that the shift negates the fact that XB is a minus defender? Are you now saying that they'll be shifting to cover his lack of skill on defense? Shifting to cover for XB will leave holes elsewhere in your defense. Like I have said before, you have a staff led by a groundball pitcher. Said groundball pitcher has a bad SS behind him. There is no shift that fixes that.

[a700hitter]

The SS is still going to get the bulk of plays in the infield whether or not a team uses shifts. Use of shifts will not help a ShortStops fielding deficiencies. In fact it might highlight certain weaknesses. XB's footwork from the standard shortstop position is not good. Occasionally, when in the shift a shortstop has to turn a DP from the other side of second base requiring the footwork of a second baseman.

[iortiz]

While shifts are a nice "resource", STILL each individual performance at D is needed, mostly at SS spot when u have GB pitchers, no rocket science here. Hopefully XB improves his glove otherwise it could be a long season for him and the GB combo signed.

[User Name]

Can't you just admit you're wrong here? Yes, shifts are more prevalent now. But the LH shift usually leaves the SS all alone on the left side of the diamond, which will only exacerbate the problem should a ball get hit his way. You are telling me that the shift negates the fact that XB is a minus defender? Are you now saying that they'll be shifting to cover his lack of skill on defense? Shifting to cover for XB will leave holes elsewhere in your defense. Like I have said before, you have a staff led by a groundball pitcher. Said groundball pitcher has a bad SS behind him. There is no shift that fixes that.

 

You're still not very good at reading after all these years, which is surprising. Read it again. Mask "some" of his deficiencies. Not turn him into an above-average SS overnight. In that respect, i said he "could" improve, but that's something out of the team's control.

[jacksonianmarch]

He absolutely could improve. But in all honesty, how many large framed SS get better defensively as they age? Usually the offense kicks up and the defense kicks down. And this isn't meant as a knock on Bogaerts. I think he's gonna be an All Star caliber SS in 2015, just not defensively

[Bellhorn04]

He absolutely could improve. But in all honesty, how many large framed SS get better defensively as they age? Usually the offense kicks up and the defense kicks down.

 

A-Rod and Jeter didn't get better defensively as they aged, but A-Rod didn't get worse and Jeter didn't really start to deteriorate until he'd been playing for a while.

[jacksonianmarch]

It's hard to really pinpoint Jeter early on as the UZR/150 was introduced in 2003. From that point on, Jeter posted one plus number in 2009 of all season. For the most part, he was a minus player, with 5 seasons of being -10 or worse. Jeter had miserable range, but made all the plays that he could reach, which is why his UZR/150 didn't look as bad as it could have. Bogaerts also lacks average big league range yet he also doesn't make all the plays. I would say you've got a guy who likely is going to be a minus defensively at the position. But if he can reach his offensive potential, you wont give a s***. ARod is also a guy we cannot really quantify because he's been roiding his balls off since he was in HS

[User Name]

You know, there's this thing in fangraphs called "inside edge fielding" which quantifies how many balls a player got to on his position depending on the likelihood of the ball being normally caught. Xander caught balls in the "routine category" 98.6 % of the time, while defensive wizard Andrelton Simmons caught these types of balls 98.3% of the time.

 

What this tells me is that you are doing a lot of talking without doing any kind of research. Scouting reports speak of his soft hands and good instincts (like another certain ss who was able to "make all the plays") with average range and decent arm but certain problems with positioning and footwork, both fixable issues. It's true that XB is a below average SS, but people who actually know what they're talking about project him to become at least average at the position with the projection of having to move off the position when he gets older. You don't know what you're talking about with your "scouting" of XB.

[Spudboy]

Oye.

 

XB is a newb, he's 22 and playing a high leverage position in MLB.

 

Give the kid a chance.

[a700hitter]

Oye.

 

XB is a newb, he's 22 and playing a high leverage position in MLB.

 

Give the kid a chance.

I hope that the kid has been getting a lot of work in over the off-season. That is the only way you get the footwork down. He needs reps to help him on his reactions off the bat. He was very poor at charging balls. If he looks like an awkward pup in Ft. Myers, I will be very concerned. Until then, I will assume that he is developing his game.

[cp176]

I hope that the kid has been getting a lot of work in over the off-season. That is the only way you get the footwork down. He needs reps to help him on his reactions off the bat. He was very poor at charging balls. If he looks like an awkward pup in Ft. Myers, I will be very concerned. Until then, I will assume that he is developing his game.

 

I think that he will hit but he must be able to hit in tough situations to allow him to reach his potential. At 22, he may get better at fielding the routine ones but unless he is more motivated than most he will not increase his quickness, speed, and range. Is there a stat 700, you suppose that would tell us how many more times this kid can throw it into the first base field box seats? 700 - you and I both have been told that the intellectuals of the game hovering behind their computers say that he is going to be a great one. Hope he will be but they truly had me convinced that Jackie Bradley along with many others were can't miss prospects. I need to see it on the field.

[seabeachfred]

Ted---I'm a lot more concerned with X's inability to hit with men on base. He looked like two different hitters under two different circumstances---hitting with no one on and hitting with men on. If you remember I brought this up right after I got back from Boston after watching him and the team stink things up badly in the Home Opening Series. With experience young players can overcome the heeby-jeebies when batting in tough situations, but for others it becomes a self fulfilling prophesy. There were a few here who didn't appreciate my calling him a potential choker last April but the season bore that out. So he has two areas in which he really has to improve next season. FYI, Shaunessy predicted he would win the league's MVP Award in 2015. Now that is a leap of faith.

[cp176]

Fred - Who is Ted?

[User Name]

I think that he will hit but he must be able to hit in tough situations to allow him to reach his potential. At 22, he may get better at fielding the routine ones but unless he is more motivated than most he will not increase his quickness, speed, and range. Is there a stat 700, you suppose that would tell us how many more times this kid can throw it into the first base field box seats? 700 - you and I both have been told that the intellectuals of the game hovering behind their computers say that he is going to be a great one. Hope he will be but they truly had me convinced that Jackie Bradley along with many others were can't miss prospects. I need to see it on the field.

 

Yet you say you're not antagonistic. Please stop posting on this board, and take fred with you

[cp176]

Yet you say you're not antagonistic. Please stop posting on this board, and take fred with you

 

No Luser sorry. You are not the Captain. Now - I have a lot of nastier things that I could say but I am as shrewd for sure but not nearly as crude as you and your buds. You put me on ignore! come on - figure this one out - KMATTKOG!

[cp176]

No Luser sorry. You are not the Captain. Now - I have a lot of nastier things that I could say but I am as shrewd for sure but not nearly as crude as you and your buds. You put me on ignore! come on - figure this one out - KMATTKOG!

 

You need a little help with that luser? Happy New Year! I am passing up some good bonding time wasting it with you and I know that you literally camp out on this forum. I like to talk Red Sox, I just don't always agree with you! That's the rub right.

Trust me - I will be gone soon. I will never waste my time to the tune of 11,000 plus posts. Nice life! Either ignore or talk Sox with me without your crafty little ways.

[a700hitter]

No Luser sorry. You are not the Captain. Now - I have a lot of nastier things that I could say but I am as shrewd for sure but not nearly as crude as you and your buds. You put me on ignore! come on - figure this one out - KMATTKOG!

There really wasn't anything antagonistic about your post. You merely pointed out that you don't believe stats to be the be all and end all of player evaluation. Neither do I nor do the 30 mlb franchises as all use on the ground scouting to help evaluate players.

 

User will take a hike if the team loses a few games early on.

[seabeachfred]

Fred - Who is Ted?

 

Our friend 700 Hitter. BTW, I read where you coached for 40 years. Good show---you have me beat by 9 years. I was mostly involved in baseball, though I did coach football for five years and basketball for three. Still, baseball always was and always will be my first love.

[seabeachfred]

No Luser sorry. You are not the Captain. Now - I have a lot of nastier things that I could say but I am as shrewd for sure but not nearly as crude as you and your buds. You put me on ignore! come on - figure this one out - KMATTKOG!

 

The guy is a first class dork cp---as you probably know by now. Both in 2012 and this past season when he got tired of arguing his computer points and spread sheet and was found to be wrong on just about everything he predicted he didn't admit he was wrong.....he simply vanished from the board like a fart in the wind. My guess is that he never played the game very much and he sure as hell never coached the sport so he is wedded to his computer and cybermmetrics, which as we both know doesn't tell anything about a player's heart, guts and balls. Put the jerk on ignore.

[a700hitter]

The guy is a first class dork cp---as you probably know by now. Both in 2012 and this past season when he got tired of arguing his computer points and spread sheet and was found to be wrong on just about everything he predicted he didn't admit he was wrong.....he simply vanished from the board like a fart in the wind. My guess is that he never played the game very much and he sure as hell never coached the sport so he is wedded to his computer and cybermmetrics, which as we both know doesn't tell anything about a player's heart, guts and balls. Put the jerk on ignore.

He only disappears when his Pollyanna predictions blow up in his face. He doesn't stick around to take the beatings that he has coming to him even though he freely dishes it out when others are wrong. His excuse is that his life got busy. Of course that only happens when his predictions are crumbling.

 

Lastly, it is no coincidence that this place is strife-free and the discourse is very civil when he goes into hiding. The lack of flame wars when he is gone is not a mere coincidence. The ignore feature works great for me. I urge others to use it.