Let the Swihart watch begin

[Dojji]

Yep. I agree. There are very, very, very few catchers who can do what Vazquez does as a defender. Swihart is by no means a poor defensive catcher, and he will, or at least should, hit far better than Vazquez, but a catcher has far more impact on the game defensively than offensively and defensive talent at the 2 position shines a lot brighter and impacts the WL a lot more than being 1 hitter out of 9

 

Swihart would have to be an all star offensive catcher, plus at least above average defensively to match a contribution Vazquez could make while hitting very little.

[bostopz]

read an article a short time ago by Nick Cafardo. _ IMO he's wrong. No way in hell do we look to trade Swihart to acquire Hamels. He's getting the desperate itch -- the type big market teams do to a fault - give up their prized minor league prospects for an older pitcher. There are a lot potential pitchers that could be coming available over the next year. The idea should be to build your minor league core and don't over=reach for 31 yo starter. Plus Vasquez until he gives us a full year is a great unknown. This position could b a strength if Vaquez shows a full year but if arm troubles persist -- you got to keep Swihart. Though I love Vasquez -- got to see a full year from him. Cant go dumping Swihart then Vasquez has injury injuries -- we would then "have to chase our tail" for catcher giving up even more young talent.

[Kimmi]

read an article a short time ago by Nick Cafardo. _ IMO he's wrong. No way in hell do we look to trade Swihart to acquire Hamels. He's getting the desperate itch -- the type big market teams do to a fault - give up their prized minor league prospects for an older pitcher. There are a lot potential pitchers that could be coming available over the next year. The idea should be to build your minor league core and don't over=reach for 31 yo starter. Plus Vasquez until he gives us a full year is a great unknown. This position could b a strength if Vaquez shows a full year but if arm troubles persist -- you got to keep Swihart. Though I love Vasquez -- got to see a full year from him. Cant go dumping Swihart then Vasquez has injury injuries -- we would then "have to chase our tail" for catcher giving up even more young talent.

 

 

What you don't want the FO doing is making a panic move. That will undoubtedly come back to bite them in the rear over the long run. Ben does not strike me as the panicking type, thank goodness. Patience people, patience.

[cp176]

Looks like a good thing that everyone on here feels the importance in keeping your best prospects around. Pretty sure the Sox feel the same.

[Spudboy]

Looks like a good thing that everyone on here feels the importance in keeping your best prospects around. Pretty sure the Sox feel the same.

 

But you never know. They traded Hanley and Sanchez for Josh Beckett ( plus were made to take Lowell who I liked ).

 

They could do the same thing for the right arm.

 

We'll see.

[cp176]

But you never know. They traded Hanley and Sanchez for Josh Beckett ( plus were made to take Lowell who I liked ).

 

They could do the same thing for the right arm.

 

We'll see.

 

I don't disagree with you at all. The key would be the right arm. I don't think that the right arm is available yet but it might be soon.

[User Name]

But you never know. They traded Hanley and Sanchez for Josh Beckett ( plus were made to take Lowell who I liked ).

 

They could do the same thing for the right arm.

 

We'll see.

 

Beckett was in his mid-20's, was still cheap, and had way better stuff than Hamels.

[jacksonianmarch]

Beckett was also made of glass and seemed to be on the rag every other season

[User Name]

He wasn't made of glass in 2007. That's what they brought him here for.

[Ogden]

The other day Farrell supposedly said Vasquez was the best defensive catcher in baseball. (Sorry if somebody else already posted that in this thread.)

[Spudboy]

Beckett was in his mid-20's, was still cheap, and had way better stuff than Hamels.

 

Oh I know. I am thinking that the Sox will pursue a younger top tier type.

[Kimmi]

But you never know. They traded Hanley and Sanchez for Josh Beckett ( plus were made to take Lowell who I liked ).

 

They could do the same thing for the right arm.

 

We'll see.

 

 

I think the FO pretty much views Betts and Swihart as untouchables right now. That said, things could change depending on what the team shows us the first few months of the season. If Castillo or Vazquez prove themselves as the real deal, and pitching proves to be a real need, then Betts or Swihart would become more expendable. I would hate to see it, but I would understand it.

[Kimmi]

I don't disagree with you at all. The key would be the right arm. I don't think that the right arm is available yet but it might be soon.

 

 

At this point, it's also wise to wait and see what our real strengths and weaknesses are going to be. Maybe our starting pitching is pleasantly surprising and we don't need to add a top pitcher. Maybe someone gets injured (heaven forbid) and we need the depth at a position more than we need pitching.

[Kimmi]

He wasn't made of glass in 2007. That's what they brought him here for.

 

 

I know some people were against that trade, but Beckett and Lowell helped bring us a championship. In my eyes, that makes the trade worth it. Who knows if we would have won a title with Hanley and Sanchez. As they say, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

[Kimmi]

The other day Farrell supposedly said Vasquez was the best defensive catcher in baseball. (Sorry if somebody else already posted that in this thread.)

 

 

I know he's young and doesn't have much MLB experience, but I'm on board with Farrell on that one.

[Bellhorn04]

I think the FO pretty much views Betts and Swihart as untouchables right now. That said, things could change depending on what the team shows us the first few months of the season. If Castillo or Vazquez prove themselves as the real deal, and pitching proves to be a real need, then Betts or Swihart would become more expendable. I would hate to see it, but I would understand it.

 

They will not trade Betts, I'm quite sure.

 

Making a trade like that will always raise the question, why didn't you just sign a free agent pitcher when you had the chance?

[Kimmi]

They will not trade Betts, I'm quite sure.

 

Making a trade like that will always raise the question, why didn't you just sign a free agent pitcher when you had the chance?

 

 

I don't think they will trade Betts either. I absolutely agree with the idea of signing a free agent pitcher over having to give up prospects and money to acquire a pitcher through trade.

[jacksonianmarch]

I could see Betts getting dealt only if a generational top of the rotation talent comes available, and as good as Hamels is, he isn't that. If a guy like Bumgarner hit the market for some reason, I could see the sox selling on Betts to get that guy. The fact that he is murdering Rusney Castillo in the spring competition and the sox are already looking to lock him up long term tells me their org view is sky high when it comes to his value. I thought Betts would be in any talks with Hamels, but to be honest with you, the way they are approaching him is almost as if theyd deal Bogaerts before dealing Betts

[Bellhorn04]

I could see Betts getting dealt only if a generational top of the rotation talent comes available, and as good as Hamels is, he isn't that. If a guy like Bumgarner hit the market for some reason, I could see the sox selling on Betts to get that guy. The fact that he is murdering Rusney Castillo in the spring competition and the sox are already looking to lock him up long term tells me their org view is sky high when it comes to his value. I thought Betts would be in any talks with Hamels, but to be honest with you, the way they are approaching him is almost as if theyd deal Bogaerts before dealing Betts

 

Betts has looked great, but I'm not sure 'murdering Castillo' is accurate, since Castillo was hurt and is now 3 for 4 with a home run since he started playing.

[a700hitter]

Betts has had a great spring. He has very few bad ABs and he hits the ball hard to all fields. He has earned a job. Who is the odd man out?

[Bellhorn04]

Betts has had a great spring. He has very few bad ABs and he hits the ball hard to all fields. He has earned a job. Who is the odd man out?

 

It's pretty simple now, I think. Either Castillo starts in AAA or Vic is DL'd or traded.

[a700hitter]

It's pretty simple now, I think. Either Castillo starts in AAA or Vic is DL'd or traded.

Victorino is playing every day with no nagging problems. He's looking healthier than he has been since he has been with us.

[Kimmi]

It's pretty simple now, I think. Either Castillo starts in AAA or Vic is DL'd or traded.

 

 

Since his return from injury, Castillo has been making it tough for the FO to send him down. I still think he's the odd man out though.

[Dojji]

The other day Farrell supposedly said Vasquez was the best defensive catcher in baseball. (Sorry if somebody else already posted that in this thread.)

 

Yadier Molina is the best defensive catcher in baseball. it's not a slight on Vazquez to point out that Yadi is just as good defensively, is still more or less in his prime, and has a decade of experience and 2 world series rings.

 

I would be very, very grateful to get 80% of Molina out of Vazquez. He's got the potential, it's just a matter of whether he can put the whole package together. But if you could trade Vazquez for Molina you do it 20 times out of 10. Not that I think either the Cards or the Red Sox would make that trade, they both seem to know what they have.

 

BTW look at what Yadi can do for Cardinals pitching. There hasn't been a pitcher in a Cardinals uniform that hasn't outperformed his talent during Molina's tenure. Catchers that can do what Yadi can do, and what Vazquez is capable of learning to do, are made of pure wins.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Dojji

[Dojji]

They will not trade Betts, I'm quite sure.

 

Making a trade like that will always raise the question, why didn't you just sign a free agent pitcher when you had the chance?

 

Honestly I think that when the Sox brass look in the mirror, they admit to themselves (but can't admit to us because they're afraid of losing ticket sales revenues) that this team is not a true top flight contender for the forseeable. One FA pitcher more or less isn't going to help when the problem is that the rotation has aged and several key figures of prior championship runs left, or declined, or are stupidly inconsistent and injury prone (Buchholz) and that the team is probably going to wind up replacing at least 3 of its starters over the next 4-5 years. This remains true whether or not Lester is on the team, which is probably why he was moved on and the team made moves towards younger free agent arms.

 

What you saw this offseason was a team that wasn't confident in its ability to field a worldbeating rotation no matter how much money they spent so they focused on other priorities and just tried to make sure all the starters they picked up were durable guys who could pitch a lot of innings on a good day. In other words, we're in a holding pattern while our younger players grow into the stars we hope they can be.

 

Given the state of the lineup as well, I think that was the right call. There's too many things on this team that aren't A+ grade for an honest assessment to spend whatever it takes to go for it now. That's just not what the team is as of now. The potential is there, certainly, but it's not clearcut enough to go maxed out right at the outset. We need some things to go right with prospect development (which has been a sour spot on the team for half a decade now) before this team is a top contender again.

[Spudboy]

Honestly I think that when the Sox brass look in the mirror, they admit to themselves (but can't admit to us because they're afraid of losing ticket sales revenues) that this team is not a true top flight contender for the forseeable. One FA pitcher more or less isn't going to help when the problem is that the rotation has aged and several key figures of prior championship runs left, or declined, or are stupidly inconsistent and injury prone (Buchholz) and that the team is probably going to wind up replacing at least 3 of its starters over the next 4-5 years. This remains true whether or not Lester is on the team, which is probably why he was moved on and the team made moves towards younger free agent arms.

 

What you saw this offseason was a team that wasn't confident in its ability to field a worldbeating rotation no matter how much money they spent so they focused on other priorities and just tried to make sure all the starters they picked up were durable guys who could pitch a lot of innings on a good day. In other words, we're in a holding pattern while our younger players grow into the stars we hope they can be.

 

Given the state of the lineup as well, I think that was the right call. There's too many things on this team that aren't A+ grade for an honest assessment to spend whatever it takes to go for it now. That's just not what the team is as of now. The potential is there, certainly, but it's not clearcut enough to go maxed out right at the outset. We need some things to go right with prospect development (which has been a sour spot on the team for half a decade now) before this team is a top contender again.

 

Ah. This explains why Buch, Kelly, and Masterson are in the rotation.

 

Now I get it!

[Dojji]

Can't answer to why the Sox are still clinging blindly to the vain hope that is Buchholz, but Masterson is a very durable pitcher, even in the years where he isn't very good. Prior to last year he pitched 216, 208, and 190 innings in the prior 3 seasons.

 

and Kelly averaged between 5 2/3 innings a start, which is good for a 5 they're still stretching out.

[Ogden]

Victorino is playing every day with no nagging problems. He's looking healthier than he has been since he has been with us.

 

 

Anybody who has had back problems can feel great one day and be in trouble the next. It's a crap shoot. Hopefully since Victorino is a great guy, everything works out for him.

[Ogden]

Yadier Molina is the best defensive catcher in baseball. it's not a slight on Vazquez to point out that Yadi is just as good defensively, is still more or less in his prime, and has a decade of experience and 2 world series rings.

 

I would be very, very grateful to get 80% of Molina out of Vazquez. He's got the potential, it's just a matter of whether he can put the whole package together. But if you could trade Vazquez for Molina you do it 20 times out of 10. Not that I think either the Cards or the Red Sox would make that trade, they both seem to know what they have.

 

BTW look at what Yadi can do for Cardinals pitching. There hasn't been a pitcher in a Cardinals uniform that hasn't outperformed his talent during Molina's tenure. Catchers that can do what Yadi can do, and what Vazquez is capable of learning to do, are made of pure wins.

 

 

Give Farrell a call and debate his evaluation with him.

[Kimmi]

Honestly I think that when the Sox brass look in the mirror, they admit to themselves (but can't admit to us because they're afraid of losing ticket sales revenues) that this team is not a true top flight contender for the forseeable. One FA pitcher more or less isn't going to help when the problem is that the rotation has aged and several key figures of prior championship runs left, or declined, or are stupidly inconsistent and injury prone (Buchholz) and that the team is probably going to wind up replacing at least 3 of its starters over the next 4-5 years. This remains true whether or not Lester is on the team, which is probably why he was moved on and the team made moves towards younger free agent arms.

 

What you saw this offseason was a team that wasn't confident in its ability to field a worldbeating rotation no matter how much money they spent so they focused on other priorities and just tried to make sure all the starters they picked up were durable guys who could pitch a lot of innings on a good day. In other words, we're in a holding pattern while our younger players grow into the stars we hope they can be.

 

Given the state of the lineup as well, I think that was the right call. There's too many things on this team that aren't A+ grade for an honest assessment to spend whatever it takes to go for it now. That's just not what the team is as of now. The potential is there, certainly, but it's not clearcut enough to go maxed out right at the outset. We need some things to go right with prospect development (which has been a sour spot on the team for half a decade now) before this team is a top contender again.

 

 

I don't think the FO would have spent as much money on Panda and Hanley if they thought that they didn't have a contender for the forseeable future. That just doesn't make any sense.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by the state of the lineup. The state of the lineup looks pretty good to me.

 

The FO might not be as confident in the starting rotation as they're letting on, but I think it's now a wait and see approach. I think that they are confident enough in the team as a whole to believe that they are a contender.