Sandoval or Headley?

[a700hitter]

Goodbye Xander.

[a700hitter]

Goodbye Middlebrooks, you bum.

[a700hitter]

Kids, this is the new High School baseball coach, Mr. Nava.

[a700hitter]

Maybe someday Jackie Bradley III will be a starting Outfielder for the Red Sox.

[a700hitter]

Goodbye Chechiini. You weren't hee long enough for me to learn to spell your name or figure out which of the Checchinni brothers was with the Red Sox.

[Bellhorn04]

Kids, this is the new High School baseball coach, Mr. Nava.

 

Ha...Nava will be with the Sox or some other MLB team...when will you learn not to write him off.

[a700hitter]

Ha...Nava will be with the Sox or some other MLB team...when will you learn not to write him off.

They will keep him stashed in the minors. He has options, plus he plays for meal money.

[a700hitter]

Goodbye Middlebrooks, you bum.

Jenny Dell will probably dump him too.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Goodbye Xander.

 

Xander?? No chance.

 

https://twitter.com/redsoxstats/status/536943424323481602

 

Hanley Ramirez and the Red sox have an agreement on a deal, pending physical, scources say.

 

The plan calls for Ramirez to play left field, which seems to make Yoenis Cespedes a likely trade possibility.

[a700hitter]

Xander?? No chance.

 

https://twitter.com/redsoxstats/status/536943424323481602

 

Hanley Ramirez and the Red sox have an agreement on a deal, pending physical, scources say.

 

The plan calls for Ramirez to play left field, which seems to make Yoenis Cespedes a likely trade possibility.

The smart move would be trading XB to get a stud pitcher while letting Hanley keep SS warm for Marrero who can really play SS. Then Hanley slides to 3rd and Panda moves to 1st. The smart move is not paying $88 million to switch a guy to the OF. It could happen, but not the smart move IMO. If HanRam is slated for LF, say goodby to Betts.

[seabeachfred]

The P market is crawling at a snails pace because of Boras and his usual s***. The offensive market was the first to break and it seems the Sox sprung into action. I swear to fing god if they didn't sign these 2 and waited on the SP market, even if they signed Lester you'd be losing your s*** because the SOx had not done anything to the offense and "they need to score runs too" rants would go on and on and on. We get it, you don't like the FO..

 

If the front office gets those two top notch pitchers we need I will pipe down post haste, but we are out of the running for Lester or Scherzer or Cueto or Hamels I will be pissed off and I will remind you daily to what I said in my previous post. No solid pitching, no flag---and I have doubts now that we are going to be willing to spend the money to get them. Right now the Giants are now in the race for Lester and the Yankees haven't stepped in yet. Right now we are not a contending team and y ou'll be losing your s*** if we wind up with pitchers like Masterson, Santana and Hummels for our rotation---and I will remind you of that too.

[seabeachfred]

I'm pleased the FO is making moves. I'm willing to wait to see how this whole off-season shakes out before I praise or condemn. I'm really curious to see the third, fourth and fifth shoes drop after these two moves. If nothing else, it's an indication of a willingness to spend some money to improves the team, which is almost never a bad thing....

 

Right Gomes, the team IS willing to spend money to try and improve the team and if these two signings are official we've made good progress in the offensive side of things. My fear is that we may have spent ourselves clean and given us a lower chance to getting two solid starting pitchers to give us a solid 1-2 punch on the mound, and without that we are not going to win anything next season because the pitching we currently have isn't worth a warm pitcher of spit. Let's get those two pitchers and then we'll all smile.

[seabeachfred]

Easy Fred. Let it shake out. Clearly the Sox want to go after pitchers via trade, and had to build depth to be able to make said trades.

 

Let it play out. Take a deep breath. Today is a good day.

 

Thanks SFF. Yes, I need to take a few deep breaths but it wouldn't be necessary if I was convinced that we are going to sign two top notch starters, or one and trade for the other, or trade for two. Will we be now willing to trade prospects for pitching or spend more money from what we've already spent to get those two pitchers. That's my concern.

[seabeachfred]

Goodbye Xander.

 

No such luck Ted.......Then, again, I have been hard on him because he was so disappointing this year and because he and Bradley and Middlebrooks and Drew failed so miserably we are not back in 2011 mode spending huge sums of money for players who are talented but have a lot of different kinds of baggage.

[sk7326]

The smart move would be trading XB to get a stud pitcher while letting Hanley keep SS warm for Marrero who can really play SS. Then Hanley slides to 3rd and Panda moves to 1st. The smart move is not paying $88 million to switch a guy to the OF. It could happen, but not the smart move IMO. If HanRam is slated for LF, say goodby to Betts.

 

More like goodbye Cespedes and goodbye Victorino's starting gig. Betts and XB could be had for the right guy (I suspect Hamels alone for one might be it - but not much else). Otherwise they are in firm spots and you arrange the other deck chairs accordingly.

[seabeachfred]

More like goodbye Cespedes and goodbye Victorino's starting gig. Betts and XB could be had for the right guy (I suspect Hamels alone for one might be it - but not much else). Otherwise they are in firm spots and you arrange the other deck chairs accordingly.

 

After these two signing there doesn't seem to be much more money available for two top quality starting pitchers and that means one of two things. One we have to trade a boatload of prospects to g et someone like Hamels, or the front office goes dumpster diving for some used trash like Hummels, Santana, Masterson, McCarthy---none of whom would be the one-to punch we need to compete. Even trading Cespedes would only clear nine million and the others we traded wouldn't give us enough to offer a big contract or two to the two pitchers we would need to sign via FA. That means goodbye to Lester----and I don't give a s*** what anyone here says, I WOULD TAKE LESTER OVER SANDOVAL OR RAMIREZ ANY DAMN DAY OF THE WEEK.

[User Name]

Oy vey.

[a700hitter]

More like goodbye Cespedes and goodbye Victorino's starting gig. Betts and XB could be had for the right guy (I suspect Hamels alone for one might be it - but not much else). Otherwise they are in firm spots and you arrange the other deck chairs accordingly.

I don't see Cespedes bringing back much of a return, nor do I see Victorino bringing back much. If they want to land a significant pitcher, Xander and Betts are the two biggest chips. After the acquisitions, either XB or Betts will have his path blocked. If Han Ram plays SS, XB will be traded. If HanRam will be playing LF, there would be no room for Betts. He has a weak arm and can't play RF.

[Orange Juiced]

I don't see Cespedes bringing back much of a return, nor do I see Victorino bringing back much. If they want to land a significant pitcher, Xander and Betts are the two biggest chips. After the acquisitions, either XB or Betts will have his path blocked. If Han Ram plays SS, XB will be traded. If HanRam will be playing LF, there would be no room for Betts. He has a weak arm and can't play RF.

 

Cespedes by himself won't get a #2 pitcher. But Cespedes + a second tier prospect (which they have tons of) will probably get a #2 pitcher in his last year of his contract, like an Iwakuma.

 

Neither Xander nor Betts are blocked by these signings. Not at all. Betts will be fine in RF despite not having a great arm. He will cover so much ground out there he will be a plus defender in RF.

[Orange Juiced]

After these two signing there doesn't seem to be much more money available for two top quality starting pitchers and that means one of two things. One we have to trade a boatload of prospects to g et someone like Hamels, or the front office goes dumpster diving for some used trash like Hummels, Santana, Masterson, McCarthy---none of whom would be the one-to punch we need to compete. Even trading Cespedes would only clear nine million and the others we traded wouldn't give us enough to offer a big contract or two to the two pitchers we would need to sign via FA. That means goodbye to Lester----and I don't give a s*** what anyone here says, I WOULD TAKE LESTER OVER SANDOVAL OR RAMIREZ ANY DAMN DAY OF THE WEEK.

 

Fred, the Sox are at 123. The luxury tax is 189. Pablo = 19. Hanley = 22. That puts them at 164. Trading Cespedes puts them at 154, leaving them with 29 million. Lester signs for 25, leaving them with 4 million. Iwakuma is only 7 million. So they just need to shed a little more salary to do this. Which they can do pretty easily.

 

And even if they go over, it'll only cost them a very small percentage, meaning it'll only be another million or two at most. And just for one year. Which they will promptly get back under in 2016 very easily.

 

Relax, Fred. Signing Panda and Hanley doesn't prevent them from getting Lester. Unless Lester ends up costing $30 million or so.

[Palodios]

I don't see Cespedes bringing back much of a return, nor do I see Victorino bringing back much. If they want to land a significant pitcher, Xander and Betts are the two biggest chips. After the acquisitions, either XB or Betts will have his path blocked. If Han Ram plays SS, XB will be traded. If HanRam will be playing LF, there would be no room for Betts. He has a weak arm and can't play RF.

 

I just don't understand how Cespedes is so lowly valued here. He was in the top 3 for both gold glove and a fielders bible award, so popular and sabremetric opinion alike appreciated his defense in left.. He also has a 25 HR bat. I get that he might be a pain in the ass, but so are a lot of players. If the Red Sox were trying to get a 25 HR bat with solid defense it would cost atleast one or two top prospects, so why is the case different here?

 

Some pundits have suggested a Cespedes trade with the Reds for Leake/Latos/Simon or with the Nats for Zimmerman/Fister. Although Zimmerman might take an extra piece to make it happen, these guys all seem like they are heading for 60-80 million dollar contracts in 2015.

[a700hitter]

Cespedes by himself won't get a #2 pitcher. But Cespedes + a second tier prospect (which they have tons of) will probably get a #2 pitcher in his last year of his contract, like an Iwakuma.

 

Neither Xander nor Betts are blocked by these signings. Not at all. Betts will be fine in RF despite not having a great arm. He will cover so much ground out there he will be a plus defender in RF.

i disagree with both assertions. I don't think Cespedes and a second tier prospect gets us a #2 pitcher. Also, Betts has a second baseman's arm and cannot play RF everyday at Fenway.

[Orange Juiced]

i disagree with both assertions. I don't think Cespedes and a second tier prospect gets us a #2 pitcher. Also, Betts has a second baseman's arm and cannot play RF everyday at Fenway.

 

Cespedes and a prospect could easily yield a guy like Iwakuma. If they had to throw in a tertiary prospect too, fine. And you better get used to the idea of Betts in RF or perhaps CF (if they put Castillo in RF). Because that's what's about to happen.

[a700hitter]

I just don't understand how Cespedes is so lowly valued here. He was in the top 3 for both gold glove and a fielders bible award, so popular and sabremetric opinion alike appreciated his defense in left.. He also has a 25 HR bat. I get that he might be a pain in the ass, but so are a lot of players. If the Red Sox were trying to get a 25 HR bat with solid defense it would cost atleast one or two top prospects, so why is the case different here?

 

Some pundits have suggested a Cespedes trade with the Reds for Leake/Latos/Simon or with the Nats for Zimmerman/Fister. Although Zimmerman might take an extra piece to make it happen, these guys all seem like they are heading for 60-80 million dollar contracts in 2015.

Cespedes bought 2 months of Lester. With one year left on his contract, and the prohibition from offering him a QO, he will not buy a full season of a #2 pitcher. Maybe he could fetch Leaks, but none of the others.

[a700hitter]

Cespedes and a prospect could easily yield a guy like Iwakuma. If they had to throw in a tertiary prospect too, fine. And you better get used to the idea of Betts in RF or perhaps CF (if they put Castillo in RF). Because that's what's about to happen.

 

I' ll get used to these things when they happen. I am not seeing it as a strong possibility.

[Orange Juiced]

Cespedes bought 2 months of Lester. With one year left on his contract, and the prohibition from offering him a QO, he will not buy a full season of a #2 pitcher. Maybe he could fetch Leaks, but none of the others.

 

Oakland was gunning for a WS title. The situation is a little different now.

 

We shall see.

[Orange Juiced]

I' ll get used to these things when they happen. I am not seeing it as a strong possibility.

 

So you really think that the Sox are going to trade either Betts or Bogaerts?

 

And what do you think they'd get in return?

 

(BTW, you might be right if you say yes to the first question. We shall see. I highly doubt it, but I've been wrong before.)

[a700hitter]

So you really think that the Sox are going to trade either Betts or Bogaerts?

 

And what do you think they'd get in return?

 

(BTW, you might be right if you say yes to the first question. We shall see. I highly doubt it, but I've been wrong before.)

 

I think the Sox will look to land a big pitcher -- Hamels or possibly Sale.

 

Cespedes is not going to net us Iwakuma who has a higher winning percentage (.655) than King Felix and the same ERA (3.07).

[Orange Juiced]

I think the Sox will look to land a big pitcher -- Hamels or possibly Sale.

 

Cespedes is not going to net us Iwakuma who has a higher winning percentage (.655) than King Felix and the same ERA (3.07).

 

Nobody cares about winning percentage. Iwakuma's era last year was 3.52, and he's 33 years old on the last year of his contract. Felix' was 2.14 and is perhaps the best pitcher in the AL. Comparing the two of them is ridiculous. There isn't a baseball person alive that would suggest to Boston that Iwakuma is somehow worth as much as Felix based on what you just said there, 700. I don't mind talking about this but let's try to remain within the realm of the real.

 

EDIT: I don't want them to trade Bogaerts, but if trading him got us Sale, well then. Sign me up. I won't say the same thing for Hamels.

Edited November 25, 2014 by Orange Juiced

[a700hitter]

Nobody cares about winning percentage. Iwakuma's era last year was 3.52, and he's 33 years old on the last year of his contract. Felix' was 2.14 and is perhaps the best pitcher in the AL. Comparing the two of them is ridiculous. There isn't a baseball person alive that would suggest to Boston that Iwakuma is somehow worth as much as Felix based on what you just said there, 700. I don't mind talking about this but let's try to remain within the realm of the real.

 

EDIT: I don't want them to trade Bogaerts, but if trading him got us Sale, well then. Sign me up. I won't say the same thing for Hamels.

I didn't bring up king Felix to make a comparison. Felix is a Cy Young pitcher. I brought him up as context for iwakuma's accomplishments. They pitch for the same team and iwakuma has been very successful pitching for that team. I brought up the winning percentage because Seattle has not been a big offensive powerhouse, yet iwakuma has put up an impressive w-L record to go along with his other impressive stats. These were not lucky wins. But okay, you are of a school that puts no value on W-L. His other numbers are very very good. We are not going to get this caliber of pitcher for Cespedes.