2014 Offseason Thread

[NativeBostonian]

A rotation like this could be slaughtered by even mediocre lups, this is what worries me; and not to mention that this current rotation is not by any means a PO rotation one.

 

I am giving the Red Sox the benefit of the doubt. Who would have thought the Red Sox would have won it all two years ago with the team that was put together?

[Palodios]

A rotation like this could be slaughtered by even mediocre lups, this is what worries me; and not to mention that this current rotation is not by any means a PO rotation one.

 

Slaughtered is a bit extreme here. These guys all have relatively good career numbers. We can probably expect one or two to have a bad year, but they are bound to find someone in their pool of prospects eventually.

 

Masterson's career ERA -- 4.24.

Buchholz's career ERA -- 3.92.

Miley's career ERA -- 3.79.

Joe Kelly's career ERA -- 3.41.

Rick Porcello's career ERA -- 4.30

[iortiz]

Oh I don't know - this rotation slots as quite good in the #2-#5 spots. #1 is not ideal but will not be 0fer against other 1s either. The offense needed to improve - as long as it does so, this rotation has potential to be fine.

 

Cherington's moves with relievers is solid - just sign a giant truckload of them, see who makes the cut.

 

Honestly, I do not see a clear/solid No.2. I still see big black holes at the front-end of the rotation. I see a sea of ?s and Ifs as well. If they go like this, hopefully not, I'm going to keep my crossed fingers.

Edited December 17, 2014 by iortiz

[iortiz]

Slaughtered is a bit extreme here. These guys all have relatively good career numbers. We can probably expect one or two to have a bad year, but they are bound to find someone in their pool of prospects eventually.

 

Masterson's career ERA -- 4.24.

Buchholz's career ERA -- 3.92.

Miley's career ERA -- 3.79.

Joe Kelly's career ERA -- 3.41.

Rick Porcello's career ERA -- 4.30

 

Well a lot have been said. I could make an assessment in the opposite direction as well.

 

If you and others feel comfortable with this, great. I do not Pal, at all.

[mvp 78]

I think we'd all like a #1 to come onboard, but the rest of the rotation is good enough to compete in this division 2-5. If they don't get an ace and wind up with 84 wins, it's not an indictment on the rest of the starters. You'd just be trading a #1 for a swing guy (Kelly/Masterson).

[BOSOX11]

I foresee the FO pulling the trigger for a #1 starter. Who it is? Flip a coin.

[iortiz]

I am giving the Red Sox the benefit of the doubt. Who would have thought the Red Sox would have won it all two years ago with the team that was put together?

 

Well, 2013 was kind of magical IMO. I do not want to take credit away from anybody but I think that some special things happened. Buch, pitched like an ace. Lackey came back like the phoenix from hell. Lester bounced back. Our set up/closer combo performed like out of this planet. Ortiz was simply ridiculous. I mean if the stars align again, yeah, we can win it all again, but trying to be objective I do not see it.

[iortiz]

I think we'd all like a #1 to come onboard, but the rest of the rotation is good enough to compete in this division 2-5. If they don't get an ace and wind up with 84 wins, it's not an indictment on the rest of the starters. You'd just be trading a #1 for a swing guy (Kelly/Masterson).

 

Well if we end up with a 84 W record with the current rotation (still I do not see it), a No 1 should provide you at least 15 W more. Another No 1 or another solid No.2 as I've been suggesting? 10 more or something. They could make the difference, no doubt about that.

 

Sure you still have to subtract some of the potential Ws of the other arms but it easily could end up at least at 90 Ws.

[sk7326]

Honestly, I do not see a clear/solid No.2. I still see big black holes at the front-end of the te rotation. I see a sea of ?s and Ifs as well. If they go like this, hopefully not, I'm going to keep my crossed fingers.

 

There are questions - but there is also a lot of durability and some legitimate upside too. I am certainly not comparing this to McNally-Palmer-Cuellar or anything, don't get me wrong. But can this bunch represent a good enough rotation to get to say June, when the prices on some of the tradeable aces (Cueto, cough cough) could start to drop and the Red Sox are still armed with a lot to deal.

[mvp 78]

Never forget.

 

@BlueJays: The @BlueJays have signed OF Ryan Kalish to a minor league contract for 2015 with an invite to Major League spring training.

[sk7326]

Well, 2013 was kind of magical IMO. I do not want to take credit away from anybody but I think that some special things happened. Buch, pitched like an ace. Lackey came back like the phoenix from hell. Lester bounced back. Our set up/closer combo performed like out of this planet. Ortiz was simply ridiculous. I mean if the stars align again, yeah, we can win it all again, but trying to be objective I do not see it.

 

Well - in baseball particularly - it is always magic when a team wins it all. And you are right, 2015 does not offer the sort of obvious upside that the 2013 roster had (our good players being healthy, our manager not being an imbecile). The upside is there, but we are asking for more than simply staying off the DL. But if you really look at the rotation in 2013 - aside from Buchholz (and he was hurt for so much), the rotation was as much about delivering an honest day's work as anything else. "Solid" starting plus a median level offense and a good bullpen can keep us in the mix. I'll also point out that as much as 2013 had some magic, 2014 had just as much anti-magic to it. It is just as unlikely that all of the players would stink at the same time.

[cp176]

There are questions - but there is also a lot of durability and some legitimate upside too. I am certainly not comparing this to McNally-Palmer-Cuellar or anything, don't get me wrong. But can this bunch represent a good enough rotation to get to say June, when the prices on some of the tradeable aces (Cueto, cough cough) could start to drop and the Red Sox are still armed with a lot to deal.

 

Palmer, Cuellar, McNally - I remember them well. I think there have been some very good moves made but one pitcher with the ability of any one of those 3, I would feel just great. Championship teams ordinarily need a stopper. If you have the ace, you don't need all that much else. They have a lot of everything else right now and I don't think that they are done.

[cp176]

Palmer, Cuellar, McNally - I remember them well. I think there have been some very good moves made but one pitcher with the ability of any one of those 3, I would feel just great. Championship teams ordinarily need a stopper. If you have the ace, you don't need all that much else. They have a lot of everything else right now and I don't think that they are done.

 

add Pat Dobson to that bunch and you have your 4 20 game winners. He is the one I always forget.

[seabeachfred]

In all fairness, you could say the same thing about every reliever on this team in the last 15 years not named Papelbon or Uehara:p

 

Especially MDC---better known as Major Disaster Coming or as we called him on Sawxheads and Dirt Dogs, Manny Delgarbage. That was one guy who pissed me off every time he stepped to the mount. It took the better part of six damn years before the front office called him a sunk coast and got rid of him......BTW he still hasn't made it back to the Big Leagues, and don't get any stupid ideas Cherington.

Edited December 17, 2014 by seabeachfred

[NativeBostonian]

Apparently, the Rays are about to get ready to trade Will Myers to the San Diego Padres. The division is getting weaker and weaker by the day.

[seabeachfred]

The AL East is much weaker in 2015.

The Rays have blown it up.

The Yankees have been quiet so far this offseason, and have lost several key players.

Baltimore has lost a pile of key players, including their 40 HR bat.

 

Outside of the Jays, what team are you afraid of in 2015?

 

I'm afraid of the Red Sox---our mediocre starting rotation minus a true No. Ace and a bad actor on the team like Ramirez coupled with a SS who cannot field all the grounders our pitchers are going to give him and who cannot hit like s*** when he comes up with the runners on base in a key situation as we saw so many damn times this past year.

[Palodios]

I'm afraid of the Red Sox---our mediocre starting rotation minus a true No. Ace and a bad actor on the team like Ramirez coupled with a SS who cannot field all the grounders our pitchers are going to give him and who cannot hit like s*** when he comes up with the runners on base in a key situation as we saw so many damn times this past year.

 

Fred, take this into context. I'm comparing the Red Sox to other AL East teams. Who has an ace? The only Cy youngs in the division are over 35 in Dickey and Sabathia. Tanaka's elbow is shot. Baltimore's staff is filled with #3s and 4s, like the Sox. The Rays have a few guys who might emerge, but the rest of their team are AAAA fodder.

[mvp 78]

Fred, take this into context. I'm comparing the Red Sox to other AL East teams. Who has an ace? The only Cy youngs in the division are over 35 in Dickey and Sabathia. Tanaka's elbow is shot. Baltimore's staff is filled with #3s and 4s, like the Sox. The Rays have a few guys who might emerge, but the rest of their team are AAAA fodder.

 

How did the O's do with that rotation of unheralded guys last year? I don't remember.

[Palodios]

The Orioles beat Detroit and their 4 aces and moved onto the ALCS.

 

Doesn't that say something ?

[mvp 78]

The Orioles beat Detroit and their 4 aces and moved onto the ALCS.

 

Doesn't that say something ?

 

Huh? That just doesn't seem possible without a 1 and top tier 2!

[SCM33]

AL east is turning into the AFC east.

[cp176]

What am I missing here? We have a glut of talent somewhat mediocre at best I will admit. Some prospects - key word prospects. All the money you could ever want. Don't you folks see something coming for an arm that might at least cause an opponent to at least think that their chances of winning are limited? My concern isn't about what other teams have. What do we have? If I am not mistaken, and I hope I am not, the key point isn't really what other teams have. I would like to see the best that we can have. I really don't care about the rest of the East. Maybe we are done and maybe we aren't. Hope we are not.

[SCM33]

They may add a couple minor pieces to patch together the bullpen, but I think they are pretty much done in terms of spending money.

[Spudboy]

Never forget.

 

@BlueJays: The @BlueJays have signed OF Ryan Kalish to a minor league contract for 2015 with an invite to Major League spring training.

 

Cool. I loved watching him play before the shoulder injury. A very good athlete and a "gammer".

 

I hope that he can make a go of it with the Jays.

[Spudboy]

add Pat Dobson to that bunch and you have your 4 20 game winners. He is the one I always forget.

 

Me too!

 

"Back in the day" I used to go to about 40+ games at Fenway each year 1972-1974. I paid $1.00 for a bleacher ticket and $0.75 to gain access to the rest of the park after the 3rd inning.

 

I was on a first name basis with most of the Baltimore Bullpen. This because I looked about 10-11 when I was 14 and 15. I used to smoke HavaTampa cigars at the game. Those guys would be smoking real cigars and would get a kick out of passing their stogies through the back fence of the pen for me to toke on. Spital and all!!!

 

The game has changed. I very much doubt that any player would spend 10-20 minutes joking around with a teenage fan now.

 

The Baltimore relievers were a fun bunch or partyers that were often drunk or hungover and not bashful about it.

[mvp 78]

AL east is turning into the AFC east.

 

If Brady and Bill retired.

[Spudboy]

Especially MDC---better known as Major Disaster Coming or as we called him on Sawxheads and Dirt Dogs, Manny Delgarbage. That was one guy who pissed me off every time he stepped to the mount. It took the better part of six damn years before the front office called him a sunk coast and got rid of him......BTW he still hasn't made it back to the Big Leagues, and don't get any stupid ideas Cherington.

 

Well Fred while Delcarmen never did become great he always enjoyed immense popularity among Sox fans who lived in the Boston area because he was a home grown talent and grew up in Hyde Park / West Roxbury. He was also a really nice young man that was humble about his failed efforts on the mound. Unlike, say, Clay Buchholtz who make excuses or says that he felt good but they got some good swings on me type crap.

 

Sometimes fans in remote areas do not get to see this side of players. You sort have to be living in this culture and environment to see this stuff. Even now with social media being so big much of what a player is seen as is not a complete picture.

 

Edit: I believe that Delcarmen had TJS early in his career. Maybe he just never made it back to his original promise.

[Palodios]

What am I missing here? We have a glut of talent somewhat mediocre at best I will admit. Some prospects - key word prospects. All the money you could ever want. Don't you folks see something coming for an arm that might at least cause an opponent to at least think that their chances of winning are limited? My concern isn't about what other teams have. What do we have? If I am not mistaken, and I hope I am not, the key point isn't really what other teams have. I would like to see the best that we can have. I really don't care about the rest of the East. Maybe we are done and maybe we aren't. Hope we are not.

 

The offense is among the best in the league. The defense is excellent. The bullpen is respectable. The bench is filled with useful, versatile players. The farm system's best talent is in the upper minors.

 

The starting pitching staff's average age is 27, healthy, and gives a ton of innings. They also may trade for another pitcher between now and the trade deadline.

[Spudboy]

Fred, take this into context. I'm comparing the Red Sox to other AL East teams. Who has an ace? The only Cy youngs in the division are over 35 in Dickey and Sabathia. Tanaka's elbow is shot. Baltimore's staff is filled with #3s and 4s, like the Sox. The Rays have a few guys who might emerge, but the rest of their team are AAAA fodder.

 

This is all very true. However as we have all seen just about anything can happen with or to any team. The Sox rotation may be very good. I would not bet on it but I can see them being adequate to the point that the Sox are in it for at least part of the season.

 

In regards to the Yankees pitching, big ifs exist, too. However IF Fatty, Tanaka, Pineda and I believe Nova ( is he even part of the team anymore?? ) come back solid then look out. That could be by far the best rotation in the East and possibly one of the best in the AL.

 

And yes, I am still a Sox fan.

 

Oh. I forgot Kuroda. He may swig some Geritol and have a go at it.

[Spudboy]

Huh? That just doesn't seem possible without a 1 and top tier 2!

 

TROLL!!!!!!! Hahahahahahahaha.