2014 Offseason Thread

[mvp 78]

They are still two arms behind to me, not one.

 

What would your ideal rotation look like at this point?

[mvp 78]

Dude, we both agree that they still need a #1, and they're going to get him. Why work yourself up when there's plenty of time and there are plenty of options? Shields, Scherzer, Cueto, et al are all still out there. If they were gone/extended, i'd be complaining too.

 

Lies. You're a ball licking jock sniffer of the front office! You can't fool us!!!

[iortiz]

Yes but u know that u have that number 1 guy.Listen I am not gonna argue with u anymore.I just hope the offense will be improved.They might need to score alot of runs.I actually liked the porcello deal.

 

I never, ever liked Porcello. He is going to be crucified in Fenway. Hopefully I eat my words.

[iortiz]

What would your ideal rotation look like at this point?

 

To me, We have to sign Shields and trade for Hamels/Cueto to get it this done.

[jacksonianmarch]

Don't get me wrong, the Yankees and sox have some of the same problems now. The thing is, though, the sox are relying on guys to come back from injury AND return from subpar performances. Buchholz is chronically injured and seems to have an issue putting a full season together, plus he was one of the worst starters in the AL last yr. Masterson has had some injury issues and he sucked ******* last yr, as he was one of the only pitchers worse than Buchholz when he was dealt to StL. Kelly was the Clay Buchholz of the NL prior to his trade, stuff off the charts but couldn't stay on the mound and showed wild inconsistency. Add to that a lefty who didn't pitch well last yr who has trouble with the homerball coming to the Fens and a guy who is nearly completely reliant on the defense and you have the makings of a disaster. That being said, you have the ceiling of a solid yet unspectacular rotation. Your floor to ceiling distance is absolutely huge.

 

We have some of the same issues. Our top 2 right now have ace ceiling. Thing is, only one of them is healthy and Pineda isn't necessarily an ironman. He hasn't put a full season together since his rookie yr. Tanaka was the Cy Young leader at the ASB, but he has elbow issues that are concerning to say the least, and he missed a lot of time. We could have one of the best 1-2 punches in the AL, or we could have our top two on the DL for the season, who knows. Our #3 is coming off TJS and likely wont be back until after May (Nova). Sabathia hasn't been Sabathia since 2012 and he has a chronic knee issue. Our #5 is David Phelps, who has his injury issues as well, although he is a pretty decent #4/5. Thing is, I am pretty sure we are adding to our rotation and likely at the top. I don't think the sox are going to add an ace level pitcher at this point, as there aren't many out there and Shields/Hamels would require big money guarantees for more than 3 yrs.

[mvp 78]

I never, ever liked Porcello. He is going to be crucified in Fenway. Hopefully I eat my words.

 

What makes you think he'll pitch worse in Boston with a better IF defense behind him?

[mvp 78]

To me, We have to sign Shields and trade for Hamels/Cueto to get it this done.

 

What do you do 3-5?

[jacksonianmarch]

BTW, I am pretty confident, yet not terribly excited, that Scherzer will be donning pinstripes.

[User Name]

Don't get me wrong, the Yankees and sox have some of the same problems now. The thing is, though, the sox are relying on guys to come back from injury AND return from subpar performances. Buchholz is chronically injured and seems to have an issue putting a full season together, plus he was one of the worst starters in the AL last yr. Masterson has had some injury issues and he sucked ******* last yr, as he was one of the only pitchers worse than Buchholz when he was dealt to StL. Kelly was the Clay Buchholz of the NL prior to his trade, stuff off the charts but couldn't stay on the mound and showed wild inconsistency. Add to that a lefty who didn't pitch well last yr who has trouble with the homerball coming to the Fens and a guy who is nearly completely reliant on the defense and you have the makings of a disaster. That being said, you have the ceiling of a solid yet unspectacular rotation. Your floor to ceiling distance is absolutely huge.

 

We have some of the same issues. Our top 2 right now have ace ceiling. Thing is, only one of them is healthy and Pineda isn't necessarily an ironman. He hasn't put a full season together since his rookie yr. Tanaka was the Cy Young leader at the ASB, but he has elbow issues that are concerning to say the least, and he missed a lot of time. We could have one of the best 1-2 punches in the AL, or we could have our top two on the DL for the season, who knows. Our #3 is coming off TJS and likely wont be back until after May (Nova). Sabathia hasn't been Sabathia since 2012 and he has a chronic knee issue. Our #5 is David Phelps, who has his injury issues as well, although he is a pretty decent #4/5. Thing is, I am pretty sure we are adding to our rotation and likely at the top. I don't think the sox are going to add an ace level pitcher at this point, as there aren't many out there and Shields/Hamels would require big money guarantees for more than 3 yrs.

 

Mental masturbation is the easiest, yet most unfulfilling type of masturbation. Otherwise, this is actually readable.

[mvp 78]

BTW, I am pretty confident, yet not terribly excited, that Scherzer will be donning pinstripes.

 

Talking talking yankee talk...

 

There is a board for that on here you know...

[iortiz]

What do you do 3-5?

 

Kelly, Buch, Masterson. The other would be depth to me.

[NativeBostonian]

You guys think the Red Sox will think about throwing Clay Buchholz in a deal for a ace type pitcher?

[mvp 78]

Kelly, Buch, Masterson. The other would be depth to me.

 

You'd put Wade Miley in the bullpen?

[iortiz]

What makes you think he'll pitch worse in Boston with a better IF defense behind him?

 

He's going to be crucified anywhere. I don't like Porcello at all.

[iortiz]

You'd put Wade Miley in the bullpen?

 

As a 6th/BP guy, yeah!

[jacksonianmarch]

Mental masturbation is the easiest, yet most unfulfilling type of masturbation. Otherwise, this is actually readable.

 

The reason why I say this is due to the money that would be required AND the years. Shields is gonna get 5 years or more. And if you were questioning going 6 (eventually you did) to bring back Lester, a known commodity, then you cannot fathom going 5 or 6 to get a guy without Lester's track record who is two years older. I think getting Shields would be a disaster in the press, which seems to be the method for which the sox have done business these days. Also, I am not sure Shields is a #1 anymore. He shrinks from big games, which makes his nickname hilarious. Plus, he has a TON of miles on his arm. 223IP a season for the last 8 seasons is a lot, especially for a guy about to turn 33. His velo has stayed well for him, but his K rate is dropping.

 

Hamels is on a 4 yr deal, but to get dealt, he'd have his option picked up. 5 yrs at big money for a lefty in Fenway coming from the NL while also having to give up major prospects doesn't make sense, IMO.

 

Cueto is now one of the only constants on a staff that lost 2 solid starters. They also seem to be trying to extend him. I bet he's a mid season target, because dealing him away now would require so much that it'd be prohibitive/not worth it, IMO

[Palodios]

Buchholz currently costs a 12 million contract. If he was a free agent, he'd probably get a 8-12 million contract. I think teams might be interested in eating the contract, but won't give up any value for him.

[jacksonianmarch]

Buchholz currently costs a 12 million contract. If he was a free agent, he'd probably get a 8-12 million contract. I think teams might be interested in eating the contract, but won't give up any value for him.

 

Buch may have been worth a $12 mil contract after 2013, but after last yr, he's worth more a $6-$8 mil deal with incentives. You are right, though. Someone would probably take him off your hands if you ate a little money. There isn't much value in return in dealing him. You're better off holding onto him and seeing if he can recover. If he can, great, if he cannot, cut him

[NativeBostonian]

Buchholz currently costs a 12 million contract. If he was a free agent, he'd probably get a 8-12 million contract. I think teams might be interested in eating the contract, but won't give up any value for him.

He wouldn't get you much solo. But, if you package him with a good prospect or two. You might be able to get something.

[Palodios]

Buch may have been worth a $12 mil contract after 2013, but after last yr, he's worth more a $6-$8 mil deal with incentives. You are right, though. Someone would probably take him off your hands if you ate a little money. There isn't much value in return in dealing him. You're better off holding onto him and seeing if he can recover. If he can, great, if he cannot, cut him

 

Josh Johnson got 8 million last year, Masterson 9 million. I would argue Buchholz is worth slightly more because of the team options and ceiling, but yeah, he won't return much in a trade.

[dupree]

Ben has a man crush on Buch. He has said time and time again that he thinks Buch is an Ace caliber pitcher. I don't see him trading him for anyone. He sees him as the anchor of the staff. If the Phillies dropped their asking price to one top tier prospect instead of two I'd say the Hamels deal gets done. A lot of things have changed today and I don't think Ben is done.

[Bellhorn04]

He's going to be crucified anywhere. I don't like Porcello at all.

 

??? Did you look at his numbers last year? They are very likable.

[Palodios]

Ben has a man crush on Buch. He has said time and time again that he thinks Buch is an Ace caliber pitcher. I don't see him trading him for anyone. He sees him as the anchor of the staff. If the Phillies dropped their asking price to one top tier prospect instead of two I'd say the Hamels deal gets done. A lot of things have changed today and I don't think Ben is done.

 

That was his media response after trading Lester and Lackey, simply because there weren't any top pitchers on the team.

[Bellhorn04]

Josh Johnson got 8 million last year, Masterson 9 million. I would argue Buchholz is worth slightly more because of the team options and ceiling, but yeah, he won't return much in a trade.

 

I saw one of those fleeting tweet/rumor things a while back that some NL teams have expressed interest in him - 'there's a belief his stuff would play well in the NL' - that type of thing.

[User Name]

I saw one of those fleeting tweet/rumor things a while back that some NL teams have expressed interest in him - 'there's a belief his stuff would play well in the NL' - that type of thing.

 

His stuff would play well anywhere if he could f***ing harness it and stay healthy for a full season.

[iortiz]

??? Did you look at his numbers last year? They are very likable.

 

To me was a fluke year... As I said Hopefully I eat my words.

[Bellhorn04]

His stuff would play well anywhere if he could f***ing harness it and stay healthy for a full season.

 

True that.

[Palodios]

To me was a fluke year... As I said Hopefully I eat my words.

 

He was a first round draft pick, so it isn't as if the talent isn't there. He's also only 26, so he's heading into his prime, rather than out of it.

[Bellhorn04]

To me was a fluke year.

 

When you're 25, they call those breakout years. He's about the same age as a lot of our starter prospects.

[mvp 78]

To me was a fluke year... As I said Hopefully I eat my words.

 

13 and 14 were similar in almost all stats but ERA. This is because of Fielder and Cabrera being butchers in 13.

 

He's the same guy.