2014 Offseason Thread

[alphilip77]

We have our own problems. But you just shot yourself in the foot

 

If signing two of the best offensive players from this year's FA pool to modest (in terms of length) deals is "shooting ourselves in the foot" then you guys must have taken a shotgun and blown your brains out last winter by comparison. You say your team has their own problems, so rather than laughing at us for getting two "overrated" players why don't you worry about Tanaka possibly blowing out his elbow? Or how many games Tex will miss this year? Or if A-Roid will even hit his body weight? I could go on but the Yankee's flaws are well known, not to mention numerous and pretty significant compared to the Sox. In the grand scheme of things, yes, our starting rotation is not where it should be as of today. But that doesn't mean it will stay as such. It's a long winter bubby brister, wait until things play out.

[Orange Juiced]

If signing two of the best offensive players from this year's FA pool to modest (in terms of length) deals is "shooting ourselves in the foot" then you guys must have taken a shotgun and blown your brains out last winter by comparison. You say your team has their own problems, so rather than laughing at us for getting two "overrated" players why don't you worry about Tanaka possibly blowing out his elbow? Or how many games Tex will miss this year? Or if A-Roid will even hit his body weight? I could go on but the Yankee's flaws are well known, not to mention numerous and pretty significant compared to the Sox. In the grand scheme of things, yes, our starting rotation is not where it should be as of today. But that doesn't mean it will stay as such. It's a long winter bubby brister, wait until things play out.

 

It's almost like he thinks that all the moves need to be made at once. As if you can't address one thing at a time. As if signing two of the best offensive FAs means that they therefore will not address the pitching.

 

The Sox have plenty of resources (money, prospects) to go get two top-tier starting pitchers, either via free agency or trade. Which they will.

 

And then the Red Sox will be one of the favorites to win the AL pennant.

[RedSoxNC84]

Plus, he's been declining for 4 years AND is extremely overweight.

 

What baseball player starts declining at 24 years old?

 

Most of his stats have been around his career norms, he does not seem to be declining at all. He's also a career .294/.346/.465 hitter, has averaged about 15 knocks a season, and barely strikes out. Most of that was done in a pitcher's park. Granted, those aren't gaudy numbers, but they are hardly average, and should only increase playing in Fenway.

 

Oh and the overweight thing? Last time I checked people can lose weight.

[BSN07]

Panda's deal is 5/98M plus club option. Good deal all around. No worries jacko he will be the perfect age when the deal is up for the Yanks to give him a 6 year deal. You'll just have to wait.

[jacksonianmarch]

He had a .739 OPS last yr and was an average defender. Not sure where the near $20 mil AAV is coming from. I will enjoy this move for awhile

[MJantomaso]

Panda has always been overweight. That is why his nickname is Kung fu panda. So pointing out his weight issue is pretty irrelevent. Sorry if I blew your mind jacko.

[Orange Juiced]

He had a .739 OPS last yr and was an average defender. Not sure where the near $20 mil AAV is coming from. I will enjoy this move for awhile

 

He's 28 and is going to make $19.6 million AAV. For a .739 ops (111 ops+) and 3.3 WAR.

 

Meanwhile, your 3b will turn 40 this season and is going to make $21 million. And the last season he really played (2012) he had a 111 ops+ and put up 2.2 WAR.

 

It's unclear to me why you would be enjoying this for a while. But hey, whatever floats your boat.

Edited November 25, 2014 by Orange Juiced

[User Name]

One thing Jacko is conveniently ignoring (and again, i don't love the move) is that BMS (Big Man Syndrome) usually sets in for position players right around their mid-30's, which is just before Panda's contract runs out. He's also viable to put much better offensive numbers out of the craphole for offense that is the NL West.

 

Don't love the move, but not nearly as bad as our resident annoying Yankees fan is trying to make it out as, per his M.O.

[Palodios]

Hey User (or SFF if you're around). You generated spray charts for Fenway in the past, right? How do you usually overlay that data? I am looking at Pablo's chart at fangraphs, and it looks like he's got an absolute ton of flyouts that would be around the monster, but he also looks like he might be losing some home runs too.

[BSN07]

He had a .739 OPS last yr and was an average defender. Not sure where the near $20 mil AAV is coming from. I will enjoy this move for awhile

Like we are laughing at the CC, Tex, Arod, Ells... hold on gotta catch my breath.... Taz, McCaan and Beltran deals? 4 and 5 year deals Jacko, that is the difference between how the Sox do business and how the Yanks do business. High AAV and shorter length. If the Yanks adopted this philosophy they would be in so much better shape right now. That said they may break this philosophy to get Lester. But breaking it once is better than breaking it pretty much every time they sign some player... like the Yankees continue to do.

[BSN07]

So Heyman is saying now Pablo's deal is 95M guaranteed + the option year. So Pablo basically left town for an option year. Either he really wanted to play in Boston or really wanted out of SF.

[jd98]

One thing Jacko is conveniently ignoring (and again, i don't love the move) is that BMS (Big Man Syndrome) usually sets in for position players right around their mid-30's, which is just before Panda's contract runs out. He's also viable to put much better offensive numbers out of the craphole for offense that is the NL West.

 

Don't love the move, but not nearly as bad as our resident annoying Yankees fan is trying to make it out as, per his M.O.

 

I've seen several other people say this too, but Sandoval has actually hit much better at home over his career. The last 3 years he's got a .731 OPS on the road and .789 at home. And while his NL West road parks include the most extreme pitchers park (SD) and another pitchers park (LA), they also include the most extreme hitters park (COL) and another hitters park (ARI), so overall that's neutral.

[Spudboy]

I'd be more concerned about Sandoval's transition to to the AL in that he will now have to learn about so many new pitchers. But good scouting and coaching should mitigate these difficulties. I hope he has the desire to learn.

[User Name]

I've seen several other people say this too, but Sandoval has actually hit much better at home over his career. The last 3 years he's got a .731 OPS on the road and .789 at home. And while his NL West road parks include the most extreme pitchers park (SD) and another pitchers park (LA), they also include the most extreme hitters park (COL) and another hitters park (ARI), so overall that's neutral.

 

This is true, but he should still be able to improve his power numbers at Fenway, and unlike the NL West, all AL East parks are either launching pads (Fenway, Rogers, Yanks, Oriole) or neutral (Tampa). As Spudboy says, his transition to the AL is what worries me, but who knows?

[BSN07]

There will be an adjustment period for sure.

[BSN07]

So Heyman is saying now Pablo's deal is 95M guaranteed + the option year. So Pablo basically left town for an option year. Either he really wanted to play in Boston or really wanted out of SF.

 

Reports out of SF now say the Giants also had a 6 year option on the table. Kinda surprising that he left. Maybe he felt disrespected by the FO for all the weight publicity? Or he wanted out from under Buster Posey's shadow?

[Palodios]

Might as well look at career numbers.

 

Coors Field: .779 OPS

Petco: .842

At&T: .842 OPS

Dodger's Stadium .724

Chase Field: .913

 

Most of these are roughly 50-70 game samples, so the numbers could be skewed based on a lot of different factors, but there is some correlation here.

[Palodios]

Reports out of SF now say the Giants also had a 6 year option on the table. Kinda surprising that he left. Maybe he felt disrespected by the FO for all the weight publicity? Or he wanted out from under Buster Posey's shadow?

 

San Fran also has a significantly larger cost of living. He also figures his numbers are going to be much better in Boston. He also probably hates the Yankees.

[d-money]

Jacko and the yankees are the last ones to talk when it comes to contracts lmao.They are horrible when it comes to that.Lmao.

 

Get Lester and another decent starter and they are set.

[dupree]

They have been under the luxury tax limit for the last couple of years. Maybe the FO blows past it this year with little penalty. With soo many coming off the books after 2015 why don't they just keep Cespedes to man RF after Vic is off the books next year. I really don't like the idea of letting him go for pitching. Given we need it more than anything right now. I would rather trade prospects than trade Cespedes who could thrive in Fenway & put up huge power #s. Also with Stanton locked up for years in Miami I see Cespedes as our cornerstone power bat for years to come once they sign him to a multi year deal next offseason. But we have to make a run this year with him and allow him to mash in a sox uniform. I'd rather trade Craig and clear that money than get rid of Cespedes.

[BSN07]

Lavarnway gets DFA'd, team officially announces Pablo signing

[Palodios]

Lavarnway seems like exactly the kind of player that will disappear into another organization for a few years, and turn into the next Vmart. He absolutely mashed in the minors for a few years there, but juggling catching and first base messed with his development.

[BSN07]

Contract details:

 

Sandoval will receive a $3MM bonus, then earn $17MM annually over 2015-17 before taking home a $18MM salary in both 2018 and 2019. The club option is for $17MM and comes with a $5MM buyout.

 

I like the deal more and more. It's not even an expensive option year. Jacko can try and dog it all he wants but he knows what's up.

[MJantomaso]

He could have chose Boston over San Fran for tax reasons.

[MANNYHOF24]

What is everyone's ideal lineup? (I am going to assume Cespedes gets traded for an arm)

 

A little right handed heavy, but potentially very devastating to opposing pitchers.

 

Mookie Betts (RF/CF) R

Dustin Pedroia (2B)-R

Pablo Sandoval(3B)-S

David Ortiz (DH)-L

Hanley Ramirez (LF)-R

Mike Napoli (1B)-R

Xander Bogaerts (SS)-R

Christian Vasquez ©-R

Rusney Castillo/Shane Victorino (CF/RF)-R/S

[Bellhorn04]

What is everyone's ideal lineup? (I am going to assume Cespedes gets traded for an arm)

 

A little right handed heavy, but potentially very devastating to opposing pitchers.

 

Mookie Betts (RF/CF) R

Dustin Pedroia (2B)-R

Pablo Sandoval(3B)-S

David Ortiz (DH)-L

Hanley Ramirez (LF)-R

Mike Napoli (1B)-R

Xander Bogaerts (SS)-R

Christian Vasquez ©-R

Rusney Castillo/Shane Victorino (CF/RF)-R/S

 

I think the 3-4-5 would more likely be Ortiz-Hanley-Panda. Positions for Bogaerts and Castillo would depend on performance.

 

I'd really love to see Napoli in that 6 slot.

[jd98]

Contract details:

 

Sandoval will receive a $3MM bonus, then earn $17MM annually over 2015-17 before taking home a $18MM salary in both 2018 and 2019. The club option is for $17MM and comes with a $5MM buyout.

 

I like the deal more and more. It's not even an expensive option year. Jacko can try and dog it all he wants but he knows what's up.

 

It's still $19.5m AAV for next 5 years. I'd give him something like 4/$60 at most, and after signing Hanley, I'd offer 0/$0. If he can revert to 4-7 years ago, then it's not bad at all, but it seems more likely for someone to be closer to their last 3 years performance than 4-7 years ago

[seabeachfred]

Jacko and the yankees are the last ones to talk when it comes to contracts lmao.They are horrible when it comes to that.Lmao.

 

Get Lester and another decent starter and they are set.

 

d-money---short and to the point. I don't like these moves and they smack too much like that disastrous spending spree we took in signing Crawford and trading for Gonzo, two rotten pieces of garbage. However, you said get Lester and another decent starter (I hope you mean a solid No. 2 pitcher) and we are set. Right---and that is the only way this is going to work. Failure to do that and you can kiss off next season and perhaps a few more down the road until we get the best pitching in the league. And remember this, I'm predicting that Hanley is going to be chasing a ball down the line and between misplaying it and chasing it some more he will pull a hammy and be out for six to ten weeks. The guy is s***** in the field and injury prone and has an attitude problem. I kept envisioning that scenario from the moment we signed him. I can live with Pablo but not Hanley. He is a bad fit for us.

[seabeachfred]

Lavarnway seems like exactly the kind of player that will disappear into another organization for a few years, and turn into the next Vmart. He absolutely mashed in the minors for a few years there, but juggling catching and first base messed with his development.

 

Agreed Pal. I think the Red Sox really screwed it up with Lavarnway, just as they did with Kalish when they sent him down to get injured while keeping the injury prone JD Drew who failed miserably his last year with us in 2011.

[User Name]

That is the dumbest thing i've ever heard. They "sent Kalish down to get injured?" What the f*** bro?