How did Ben do today?

[Northern Star]

What rating do you give him?

[Behindenemylines]

BC still has until spring training 2015 to finish what he started today. If he can't rebuild the pitching staff then what he did today is worth nothing. Buchholtz is the only remaining starter from the beginning of the year. An Buchholtz is a shell of himself.

[Palodios]

I gave an F.

 

I understand the Lester trade. I liked the Miller trade. I don't like giving the Yankees a player for money, and I consider the Lackey trade the worst trade in my time as a Red Sox fan -- and that includes the Lowrie trade.

[seabeachfred]

I gave an F.

 

I understand the Lester trade. I liked the Miller trade. I don't like giving the Yankees a player for money, and I consider the Lackey trade the worst trade in my time as a Red Sox fan -- and that includes the Lowrie trade.

 

I gave an "F" too. I don't like any of the trades we made today save for Drew who needed to go to open up SS for Bogaerts' return there, not that I now feel that Xander is going to do a great job. His pathetic weak hitting with RISP is an alarming red flag for us but that could be overcome with determination and experience, but we now do not have an ace on the pitching staff and three of our starters are total duds in my opinion. Workman is a reliever, not a starter, Webster can't put it all together and Buccholz is a total mess and totally ill-equipped to shoulder the role as ace of the staff. Unless we deal for two top notch pitchers over the winter or maybe in late August, we won't sniff a division title for at least five years.

 

As for Lackey, he demanded a trade. I mentioned this last night. A friend of mine on another board has an in with someone in the Red Sox organization who told her exactly that. When I mentioned that last night two colleagues made a joke of it . I reminded them of it today and will keep doing so for awhile. I also know that Lackey will not pitch for $500K. If the Cardinals insist he does that he will ask for a trade and retire. John will not pitch for that amount of money next season. You and the Cardinals can take that one to the bank.

[Wasatch]

I also gave it an "F". I guess we will be going after some expensive free agent starter's next year.

[jd98]

... I also know that Lackey will not pitch for $500K. If the Cardinals insist he does that he will ask for a trade and retire. John will not pitch for that amount of money next season. You and the Cardinals can take that one to the bank.

 

If that's true then Lackey is a huge jackass and f*** him and good riddance. He was literally the worst starting pitcher in MLB in 2011 and got paid over $15 million. Then he didn't pitch at all in 2012 and got paid over $15 million. And now he's not going to honor the last year on his contract that he willingly signed.

 

It almost has to be true, or otherwise that trade makes no sense, and it's still not a great trade. If Craig doesn't rebound, then they basically gave Lackey away. I'm not counting on Joe Kelly to do anything except maybe be a mediocre bullpen arm.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I thought he did really really well.

 

- Lester for Cespedes. It's a bit of a bummer that they didn't get more years of control, but they got a proven MLB bat that will hit 40 HR at Fenway. Hits to all fields. It's not perfect, but this year alone, Cespedes has hit 5 balls to LF in OAK that were outs that would have been either doubles or homers at Fenway. Consider also the massive foul ball territory, and he's probably good for a .270/.335/.500 line (which, according to Szymborski, ZIPS has him at .274/.327/.486, and thats generally conservative offensively). They also traded him to a situation where there is virtually no risk of resigning, and there are already many reports out that they're going to go hard after him in the offseason. I'm not sure what prospect packages were available, but I know none of the Dodgers were, and I know if you're looking at someone like Bell from the Pirates, he's in the low minors, and thus is a long way away. All these moves were made with an eye toward 2015, which I approve of.

 

Lackey for Kelly & Craig - Kind of a weird deal, but I like this deal for the Sox. Craig is underperforming right now, but from 2011-2013, he hit .312/.364/.500, which is a 139 wRC+. That's better than Goldschmidt, Beltre, Longo, Tulo, and plenty of other players (its 16th best in all of baseball). He's a pull hitter who, at Fenway, will probably help him get rewarded for some balls he's making good enough contact on to bang off the wall but is a flyout elsewhere. He's signed to a very team friendly deal considering the production that he's capable of providing. Joe Kelly is having a bit of a down year, but I want to see what Farrell and Nieves can do for him. The stuff is outrageous. 96-98 with plus sink, 54.3% GB rate. He's struggled this year, but he's got a .330 BABIP and a low strand rate (70.3%). He's probably a solid #3, but I can see him having a few mid-3 ERA seasons. Also - he's not arbitration eligible until 2016 and isn't a FA until 2019.

 

Those were the big deals. I don't know much about the Orioles prospect the Sox got.

 

Overall though, I thought Ben did really, really well. He could have gone after a few prospects, but for me, give me a guy like Craig and Kelly who have proven MLB track records, maybe having a bit of a down year, but have excellent ceilings over a prospect who may have a couple extra years of control but have massive risk attached to them, and who knows how much they struggle when they arrive.

 

Oh, and for Fred, Craig hit .454/.500/.638 in 152 PA with RISP last year. He's having a down year all around but certainly a guy who can bounce back easy. Cespedes is hitting .291/.351/.513 w RISP this year.

[sk7326]

If that's true then Lackey is a huge jackass and f*** him and good riddance. He was literally the worst starting pitcher in MLB in 2011 and got paid over $15 million. Then he didn't pitch at all in 2012 and got paid over $15 million. And now he's not going to honor the last year on his contract that he willingly signed.

 

It almost has to be true, or otherwise that trade makes no sense, and it's still not a great trade. If Craig doesn't rebound, then they basically gave Lackey away. I'm not counting on Joe Kelly to do anything except maybe be a mediocre bullpen arm.

 

That is all reported hearsay - not coming from him. It would be typical that management leaked that though. He was terrible in 2011, but his elbow was barely hanging off his arm. I think he earned a lot of his teammates admiration for battling. He is a warrior.

 

Deal is odd - think he'd have gotten a bigger return.

[sk7326]

I gave an F.

 

I understand the Lester trade. I liked the Miller trade. I don't like giving the Yankees a player for money, and I consider the Lackey trade the worst trade in my time as a Red Sox fan -- and that includes the Lowrie trade.

 

Lowrie trade was worse. Trading an actual starter for a middle reliever is height of foolishness. The Lackey deal is not a great return, but the Melancon deal was much worse.

 

I gave the team a C+. They landed the best prospect that got dealt the entire day - and found solutions to their corner outfield problems. They clearly have not punted on 2015 - nor should they - and they did improve their team in spots where they had little organizational depth. At the same time - it feels like Lester and Lackey should have netted more, the latter in particular. At the same time, when you see how little the Rays got for David Price, it is possible that such a deal might not have been there. It is interesting that all 3 of the big deals for starters today, the team ended up taking back major league bodies instead of prospect bulk.

 

Drew trade was a nothingburger. They want to give X reps at SS, and they had a chance to save money. When you put the white flag up, who cares what team you are helping, especially since the players dealt in the division were both rentals.

Edited August 1, 2014 by sk7326

[SoxFanForsyth]

I don't know how anyone could give Ben an F today when David Price got back a low A SS, Nick Franklin, and Drew Smyly.

 

Lester & Lackey both got better returns than that. You have to look at what the market bore, not just what your dreamland trade was.

 

As a sidenote - you know whats going to be fun this summer and next?? Watching JBJ and Cespedes throwing bullets from the OF. And now that we have a couple bats in the OF (Craig & Cespedes), we can afford to let JBJ flaunt his defense and develop offensively.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

I don't know how anyone could give Ben an F today when David Price got back a low A SS, Nick Franklin, and Drew Smyly.

Because he's Ben The Boob and his bosses are cheapskates who would rather woo everyone with smoke and mirrors instead of building a good honest ballclub. Don't you listen to WEEI or read the forums?

 

/hopefullyobvioussarcasm

[Bellhorn04]

I have no f***ing idea. And I can tell nobody else does either because of the massive disparities of opinions I've read. There is no consensus among the fans, that's for sure. But the scribes seem to think the Red Sox did well.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Going to be hilarious when this team goes on a tear in August and September and actually make this race closer than it ever should have been.

[Bellhorn04]

Going to be hilarious when this team goes on a tear in August and September and actually make this race closer than it ever should have been.

 

Seriously? Our starting rotation is slightly diminished from a day ago.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Seriously? Our starting rotation is slightly diminished from a day ago.

 

Just saying, just wait and see. I'm not counting on it, I'm just saying I could see some of the young guys (Ranaudo, RDLR) coming up and throwing really well, along with Kelley. Who knows, maybe even Buch turns it around. Again, not predicting it or saying it will happen, I'm saying it will be hilarious if it does.

[RedSoxNC84]

We can all have our opinions, etc. I don't hate the trades as much as I did when I first heard about them, but the jury is still out for me. As it should be for all of us. We can't grade the trades right away, we haven't even had time to see how they develop for both sides.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I'll tell you one thing right now. Cespedes, Craig, Napoli, Pedroia, Middlebrooks, Bogaerts. This team is going to annihilate left handed pitching.

 

good luck tomorrow, Capuano.

[dupree]

How much $ will the Sox have next year to play with to still stay under the luxury tax?

[SoxFanForsyth]

You know what Cherrington got today? He got two right handed power bats that play corner outfield positions. You want to know what that market looks like via FA? Here you go.

 

Right Fielders

 

Norichika Aoki (33)

Tyler Colvin (29)

Nelson Cruz (34)

Michael Cuddyer (36)

Chris Denorfia (34)

Jeff Francoeur (31)

Scott Hairston (35)

Torii Hunter (39)

Nick Markakis (31) – $17.5MM mutual option with a $2MM buyout

Alex Rios (34) – $13.5MM club option with a $1MM buyout

Nate Schierholtz (31)

Ichiro Suzuki (41)

 

Left Fielders

 

Melky Cabrera (30)

Chris Denorfia (34)

Jonny Gomes (34)

Tony Gwynn Jr. (32)

Scott Hairston (35)

Reed Johnson (38)

Ryan Ludwick (36) – $9MM mutual option with a $4.5MM buyout

Darnell McDonald (35)

Mike Morse (33)

Alfonso Soriano (39)

Vernon Wells (36)

Josh Willingham (36)

Delmon Young (29)

 

So what did you want do? Go trade for an A level prospect? Wait 3 years, hope he pans out, and do what in the meanwhile? The Marlins aren't trading Stanton. Where are you going to get the power? Because it's 100% not on the FA market. No way. Melky is having a good year but he's not a power hitter, and that's the closest thing you've got. And Cherrington went and got 2 guys who will provide pop from the right side. It's an incredibly rare find in this market right now.

 

You can find pitching. The Sox have plenty of pitching depth and prospects to trade. They can buy pitching (they will resign Lester, bank on that). Just look at what they did after they sucked in 2012 - they went out and spent money. They'll do it again. They'll sign Lester. They can sign Shields, and go Lester - Shields - Kelley - Buch - RDLR. They've got plenty of money.

 

They went out and got a commodity that is not readily available. RH Power.

[SoxFanForsyth]

How much $ will the Sox have next year to play with to still stay under the luxury tax?

 

By the calculations I've seen, about $70mm.

[kapsis21]

I give it a solid B. Peavy deal got his 2 good arms. Lester for Cespedes ...like sff said if David price having 1 year remaining got smyly and couple others that are nobody I am happy with the trade.

To me Craig and Kelley deal was the bummer. Should have gotten another arm.

[dupree]

With that they can afford Lester and Scherzer and fill out the bullpen and resign Koji and have a lil left for arbitration cases. I think Lester has to be a definite resign.

[seabeachfred]

Boy, some of you are really seeing the glass as three-fourths full......I salute you for that. However, I see a team that is led by people who want to save money and win on the cheap and thinks the fans will keep pouring into Fenway Park and singing Sweet Caroline. I think it's going to take more than just blind hope for the Red Sox to dig out from this debris. Just about every baseball commentator on ESPN were in shock and also in agreement that they simply couldn't understand how Prune Face refused to give Lester a new contract. Those who think he will now return to the Red Sox are setting themselves in for a bitter disappointment. Of course, if you guys turn out to be right I will wipe the egg off of my face and be grateful that I was wrong on this.

[SeanJohn93]

The Red Sox will make a trade or resign Lester in the off season. They have always had top of the rotation studs in Pedro, Schilling, Beckett, and Lester.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Boy, some of you are really seeing the glass as three-fourths full......I salute you for that. However, I see a team that is led by people who want to save money and win on the cheap and thinks the fans will keep pouring into Fenway Park and singing Sweet Caroline. I think it's going to take more than just blind hope for the Red Sox to dig out from this debris. Just about every baseball commentator on ESPN were in shock and also in agreement that they simply couldn't understand how Prune Face refused to give Lester a new contract. Those who think he will now return to the Red Sox are setting themselves in for a bitter disappointment. Of course, if you guys turn out to be right I will wipe the egg off of my face and be grateful that I was wrong on this.

 

Lets just sit tight before we make any kind of declaration on this trade deadline. I think we can all agree on 2 things. 1: This FO is done with 2014, and is looking at 2015. 2: This team is not nearly complete for 2015. So it's really pointless to look at this deadline and grade it without knowing what they're going to do this winter. If they go out and sign Lester and Shields this offseason, the team looks a lot, lot better. You go Lester - Shields - Buch - Kelley - RDLR? You've got an excellent chance to do some things.

 

Looking at this right now is like looking at anything else half finished, it's got a good chance of looking like absolute crap.

 

In other words - don't look at our pitching staff until he addresses our pitching staff. For right now, how do you think our offense looks? Because that's all we can judge right now. My guess is that our 2015 lineup goes something like this:

 

Betts CF

Pedroia 2B

Ortiz DH

Cespedes RF

Napoli 1B

Craig LF

Bogaerts SS

Middlebrooks 3B

Vazquez C

 

That looks pretty damn strong to me.

Edited August 1, 2014 by SoxFanForsyth

[jad]

Lets just sit tight before we make any kind of declaration on this trade deadline. I think we can all agree on 2 things. 1: This FO is done with 2014, and is looking at 2015. 2: This team is not nearly complete for 2015. So it's really pointless to look at this deadline and grade it without knowing what they're going to do this winter. If they go out and sign Lester and Shields this offseason, the team looks a lot, lot better. You go Lester - Shields - Buch - Kelley - RDLR? You've got an excellent chance to do some things.

 

Looking at this right now is like looking at anything else half finished, it's got a good chance of looking like absolute crap.

 

In other words - don't look at our pitching staff until he addresses our pitching staff. For right now, how do you think our offense looks? Because that's all we can judge right now. My guess is that our 2015 lineup goes something like this:

 

Betts CF

Pedroia 2B

Ortiz DH

Cespedes RF

Napoli 1B

Craig LF

Bogaerts SS

Middlebrooks 3B

Vazquez C

 

That looks pretty damn strong to me.

 

 

You're forgetting Kelly Johnson! A force whose lifetime BA is almost 50 points higher than Drew's this year! What a coup. They should put 2015 WS tix on sale today.

[InfernoOrangeSS]

I am feeling a little better than I did earlier today. I think they probably got as much as they could from what they were willing to deal. I don think very many teams were willing to give up very much as so many teams are still in it.

We shall see in the off season what happens.

[jd98]

I'll give him a generous C-. I didn't really like any of the trades, but I know he's not done yet, and I don't know what the other offers were and probably had my expectations too high. The offense is improved for next year, but that's all I can say for now. Here's my long assessment of the trades. You've been warned.

 

Lester trade -- Gomes is probably worth the essentially 3rd round draft pick, so it's Lester and cash for 1 year of Cespedes. He's probably overrated by the casual fan because of his good first season and the last two homerun derbies, but he's a good player and a definite upgrade with potential to be even better. My problem is it's only for 1 year. If he was under contract for 3 years for the $10-12 million per year, I'd be ok with this deal.

 

Lackey trade -- the Lester trade shows they are building for 2015, so this one is a head scratcher. If Lackey pitches for 500k next year, then this trade is dumb, and I'd drop my overall grade to D. Assuming that Lackey is being a dick, then this trade hinges on Craig. His 2014 is baffling. Is he struggling with minor injuries this year? Anybody know? If they get 2014 performance then this trade is still really bad. If he bounces back to pre-2014 form, then I'm ok with this one.

 

I'm not liking Joe Kelly at all. It's possible he figures something out and suddenly becomes good, like Jake Arietta this year, but his stats so far look like he's been extremely lucky. A career WHIP of 1.38 with a strike out rate of 6.1 per 9 innings. He had a WHIP of 1.398 in the minors. That's a lot of base runners and will likely increase in the AL, and with a low K rate, that's not a good recipe for success. In 38 starts he's pitched 7 innings twice, and never more than 7. That's really bad.

 

Miller trade -- Eduardo Rodriguez is rated as high as #3 prospect for Orioles, but that's all based on potential rather than performance. He was really good in rookie ball (big whoop), then solid but nothing special in A ball, and has been rather bad in AA. I'd prefer a top prospect that has a more proven track record of success. I'm not going to hold out hopes that he ever amounts to anything in the majors.

 

Drew trade -- a salary dump which just saves enough money to pay what they are sending Oakland and St Louis, which they shouldn't have had to do in the first place. At least Bogaerts can move back to SS now and we'll see if that helps him.

[Gringo]

I gave him a C

 

He should've wrapped up Lester a while back. That said, he can always go back in for him after the season, cuz Oakland ain't paying him beyond their playoff push this year.

 

If Lackey demanded a trade, then we did pretty good getting Craig and Kelly. Kelly is young with upside, Craig's crap year might just be a fluke. Cespedes and Craig is a big upgrade in the most diabolical Red Sox outfield in memory.

 

Light on starting pitching, they must be hoping the prospect we got for Miller has a chance at making the team at some point next year. Otherwise it's a bad deal.

 

Why on Earth we couldn't/didn't/wouldn't deal Uehara is beyond me.

 

I fully expect the rotation to be improved in the offseason. James Shields is probably a target. And they may have told Lester not to sell his house yet...

[example1]

I gave them a B. I think we will need to digest exactly what it was they acquired and how it fits within the context of their current franchise. No matter what it's a haul that tells me they intend to compete soon. You don't go after pieces like that if you are planning for 3 years down the line.

 

I don't know enough about Escobar, Hembree or Rodriguez to speak knowledgably, but they all sound like guys that most people believe will contribute at the MLB level.

 

Obviously what they are lacking is a legitimate offensive star to build the franchise around. They will need pitching too, but I don't think they should go out and overpay for a current ace. They should make a legitimate offer to Lester and see if he'll return, otherwise go after Shields and/or Masterson. I think Shields would replace Lackey's value, but they would still lack Lester's replacement. They obviously feel very highly about their prospects, or that they can acquire another top pitcher or two without too much difficulty. Signing Lester and Shields would be a really bold move.

 

Lester

Shields

Buchholz

Kelly

Workman/RDLR/Ranaudo/Webster/Escobar etc.,

 

It's not like all is lost here. They still have options and have strengthened the team in a few places where they need it. Craig and Cespedes have both been big parts of good teams. They can't be relied upon as 3-4 hitter, but they have the potential to be. They should be formidable 5, 6 or 7 hole hitters during a decent season.