The rebuild thread.

[Station 13]

According to Heyman, the Red Sox will listen on offers for Uehara if the team don't perform in the next week stretch.

[sk7326]

At this juncture, if we dont make the playoffs we didnt deserve it. I dont want to mortgage the future to make the playoffs. So yes lets do it w/the kids because if it works, and by that I mean become respectable, not winning the WS or even making the playoffs, our future will look bright. Right now winning is like making the playoffs to me.

 

However, if we do make the playoffs with what we got, wed be scary SOB's.

 

If we make the playoffs - it will be because the offense has gotten "good enough" and the run prevention has become elite. That makes us a dangerous floater - but first things first.

[a700hitter]

One oft-discussed option for the*Cardinals is veteran*Red Sox starter Jake Peavy, who once seemed close to being moved but could now be held*as Boston looks to make a late surge. St. Louis is still keeping Peavy on their “back burner,” a source tells Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe (Twitter link), who notes that Peavy has put together three consecutive solid outings.

This makes no sense. If it looks like we are making a run, they should be stepping up their efforts to trade Peavy to get a bat. This is ass-backwards.

[Palodios]

This makes no sense. If it looks like we are making a run, they should be stepping up their efforts to trade Peavy to get a bat. This is ass-backwards.

 

Posturing, probably. The Red Sox FO must know that Peavy is probably around 7 or 8 on the Red Sox starting depth chart right now. No reason to keep Workman in Pawtucket, unless they are working him back into the bullpen.

[a700hitter]

Posturing, probably. The Red Sox FO must know that Peavy is probably around 7 or 8 on the Red Sox starting depth chart right now. No reason to keep Workman in Pawtucket, unless they are working him back into the bullpen.

I think it is just Cafardo coming to a wrong conclusion.

[BigPapi]

If we make the playoffs - it will be because the offense has gotten "good enough" and the run prevention has become elite. That makes us a dangerous floater - but first things first.

 

Thats exactly right. The sox are six games out of a wildcard spot right now and 3.5 back of the yankees and blue jays. It appears as though its going to come down to if Seattle can keep winning and the sox can keep winning.

[seabeachfred]

Thats exactly right. The sox are six games out of a wildcard spot right now and 3.5 back of the yankees and blue jays. It appears as though its going to come down to if Seattle can keep winning and the sox can keep winning.

 

If these last two losses to the Jays haven't given all of us religion that we are toast, then we are only kidding ourselves and I'm done doing that. For whatever reason this team simply cannot get their s*** together for a duration of more than a week. We still can brag about our three WS Titles the past ten seasons and it is a great source of pride for all of us, but can we all just grab a dose of reality about 2014? We are not going anywhere but home in October. I can only root that the Yankees and Dodgers, my two most hated teams, don't make it either, or at best don't get too far in the post season.

[a700hitter]

July isn't even over and we have to resign ourselves to the fact that the team is completely out of contention. This is completely dispiriting to the fan base. I really hope that Fenway is a ghost town by the middle of August to send these chumps a message that sub .500 teams don't cut it for the Nation. I hope that they get so desperate with their stupid marketing gimmicks that they are offering free drycleaning with a game admission.

 

Seriously, to go from a World Championship to last place the very next year is embarrassing. As I have posted before, it is like following a strike in bowling with 2 gutter balls. You just negated the advantage of getting a strike. What gets me is that this team was a trainwreck coming out of Spring Training and they did virtually nothing to right the ship. The one move that they made -getting Drew- buried the team deeper in the standings. The FO performance in building the 2014 team has been an utter failure. Good luck to them trying to sell extremely overpriced tickets in 4 game GamePax next season. Even the scalpers will not bite on those. Thank you Ben and Co. for providing the fans with nothing to care about in August and September and what will seem like an eternity of a Hot Stove season. This is like a restaurant serving a gourmet meal one day and the next serving up a putrid meal that gives you food poisoning. It is going to damage your franchise.

Edited July 24, 2014 by a700hitter

[Spudboy]

I doubt that the Sox will see a dramatic drop-off in attendance this summer. And there are still too many long time Sox fans and even more bandwagon pink hats to suspect that attendance will suffer greatly next year.

 

The Sox are like an addictive drug to sports fans in this region. Even though we may know the drug is not good for us, we continue to swallow it.

 

I've said this before, the key to the Sox marketing is to appear to put the best foot forward and to be competitive on a daily basis. I don't believe that this was done this year.

Most "fans" are not thinking that the Sox FO has failed them. They are too busy taking selfies in the box seats.

 

Ted, you are correct in saying that the Boston fans do expect better than this. 3 WS championships are nice to be sure. However, this market is accustomed to having a team in contention in mid July.

[reYoukilis]

To hell with marketing. Id rather do it right and think farther ahead than just this year. Youd think a WS championship would buy a little more time to see a rebuilding project through than a half a season.

[jd98]

The Tigers gave up 2 of their top 5 pitching prospects for Soria. Was that another missed opportunity from the Sox front office? I don't see any other contenders desperate enough to give 2 top prospects for relief help.

[a700hitter]

To hell with marketing. Id rather do it right and think farther ahead than just this year. Youd think a WS championship would buy a little more time to see a rebuilding project through than a half a season.

Please you can rebuild around a Championship without coming in last place. Besides wasn't 2012 the rebuilding year. How about we wake up and realize that the FO screwed up this year. At least Ben knows he screwed up and has taken accountability, which is why I am not calling him a boob.

[a700hitter]

The Tigers gave up 2 of their top 5 pitching prospects for Soria. Was that another missed opportunity from the Sox front office? I don't see any other contenders desperate enough to give 2 top prospects for relief help.

we don't need bullpen help. The Yanks got a pretty good player in Headly for next to nothing. You don't have to sacrifice your future to help your team.

[Spudboy]

And Headly has a WAR of 1.0 so far!!!

 

Maybe the Yankees did not have to give up much because Headly has a herniated disc?

[Spudboy]

Please you can rebuild around a Championship without coming in last place. Besides wasn't 2012 the rebuilding year. How about we wake up and realize that the FO screwed up this year. At least Ben knows he screwed up and has taken accountability, which is why I am not calling him a boob.

 

It's not popular to criticize the Sox FO for some reason. I do not know why.

 

However, it is clear that the Sox chose to stand pat in the off season ( the acquisition of two stellar RP not withstanding! ).

 

Baseball is a business. In business you have to keep moving forward to sustain profit and growth. Standing still is the same as going backwards.

 

This is, ultimately, what the Sox have done this year.

 

And make no mistake of it, marketing is huge to the Sox brass. To ignore this fact is naive.

[a700hitter]

It's not popular to criticize the Sox FO for some reason. I do not know why.

 

However, it is clear that the Sox chose to stand pat in the off season ( the acquisition of two stellar RP not withstanding! ).

 

Baseball is a business. In business you have to keep moving forward to sustain profit and growth. Standing still is the same as going backwards.

 

This is, ultimately, what the Sox have done this year.

 

And make no mistake of it, marketing is huge to the Sox brass. To ignore this fact is naive.

It's nice to be able to discuss sports with a mature reasonable person.

[jd98]

we don't need bullpen help. The Yanks got a pretty good player in Headly for next to nothing. You don't have to sacrifice your future to help your team.

 

That's not at all what I meant. I was saying they probably could have traded Koji for 2 top prospects.

Edited July 24, 2014 by jd98

[a700hitter]

That's not at all what I meant. I was saying they probably could have traded Koji for 2 top prospects.

oh yeah. We have some bullpen pieces to trade. Koji should bring a nice return. Why are they waiting? They are not going to re-sign him.

[a700hitter]

It looks like the Red Sox most important in-season acquisitions have been Steve Lyons and Gary Striewski.

[d-money]

It looks like the Red Sox most important in-season acquisitions have been Steve Lyons and Gary Striewski.

+1 Time for the yard sale!!

[jacksonianmarch]

I was listening to EEI this morning, and they were saying the sox would face a PR disaster should they deal Lester, or at least that is the mindset of the brass. I find it appalling that a team is run by PR and not on improving their club in the short and long term. The sox aren't making the playoffs. Lester is in the last yr of his deal and has broken off negotiations. The sox have made it clear that they aren't interested in signing pitchers over 30 to long term deals. He's gone. The question is, if the sox dealt Jon Lester now, would the return be larger than the supp 1st rounder you'd get for him if he leaves in FA? And the answer is a resounding YES. If the sox called around and said, Jon Lester will be dealt in the next 6 days, make your offers, he would bring an immense return. Lefty stud, short contract, playoff ace, in the best season of his career.

[Palodios]

I find it appalling that a team is run by PR and not on improving their club in the short and long term.

 

I am sure you understand that the Yankees must operate the same way. When was the last time they wholesaled players for prospects? Its not easy to swallow for the fanbase, although that after a World Series, it will be one of the few chances the Red Sox get to do something like this.

 

This is a big part of why I think the Red Sox should go for Stanton. The fans might not stomach trading Lester/Koji for prospects, but trading them for a big power bat for both now and the future would get value for their guys and still keep fans as happy as possible in a losing season.

[jacksonianmarch]

The Yankees haven't been completely out of it for a long time. Last yr, they were 5 over .500 at the deadline and 3 out of the last wild card. This yr, they're in the 2nd wild card lead somehow. For the sox, they've made the popular decision to deal away detritus the last time they were out of it. This time, though, the "detritus" is a home grown player who wants to stay.

[seabeachfred]

I was listening to EEI this morning, and they were saying the sox would face a PR disaster should they deal Lester, or at least that is the mindset of the brass. I find it appalling that a team is run by PR and not on improving their club in the short and long term. The sox aren't making the playoffs. Lester is in the last yr of his deal and has broken off negotiations. The sox have made it clear that they aren't interested in signing pitchers over 30 to long term deals. He's gone. The question is, if the sox dealt Jon Lester now, would the return be larger than the supp 1st rounder you'd get for him if he leaves in FA? And the answer is a resounding YES. If the sox called around and said, Jon Lester will be dealt in the next 6 days, make your offers, he would bring an immense return. Lefty stud, short contract, playoff ace, in the best season of his career.

 

All the Red Sox brass know for sure is that they don't want to sign Lester long term because they have become a bunch of cheap bastards, but whether to trade him now and risk a revolt by the fans or just wait until the season is over to let him walk when the fans have gone home for the winter, is what they have to decide. They had better trade him because you don't know what that draft choice might turn out to be. We've had our share of duds the past half-dozen years. At least with prospects from another team we might get one or two who could help us, especially since our two wonder kids this year have been bitter disappointments. Bradley is in over his head at the plate and Bogaerts has turned out to be a rotten ballplayer who doesn't hit, doesn't field and has become what I suspected from the start......a choker when a big hit is needed.

[reYoukilis]

I was listening to EEI this morning, and they were saying the sox would face a PR disaster should they deal Lester, or at least that is the mindset of the brass. I find it appalling that a team is run by PR and not on improving their club in the short and long term. The sox aren't making the playoffs. Lester is in the last yr of his deal and has broken off negotiations. The sox have made it clear that they aren't interested in signing pitchers over 30 to long term deals. He's gone. The question is, if the sox dealt Jon Lester now, would the return be larger than the supp 1st rounder you'd get for him if he leaves in FA? And the answer is a resounding YES. If the sox called around and said, Jon Lester will be dealt in the next 6 days, make your offers, he would bring an immense return. Lefty stud, short contract, playoff ace, in the best season of his career.

I agree with you about how bad it is for a team to be run by PR and also agree with Cheringtons general managing philosophy and hope he doesnt become swayed to easily by the PR because of this terrible season, but he should make an exception for Lester, barring him being too outrageous. I believe in keeping it in the family if it has worked so far and Lester isnt over 30, he IS 30 so wouldnt break his rule.

[a700hitter]

I agree with you about how bad it is for a team to be run by PR and also agree with Cheringtons general managing philosophy and hope he doesnt become swayed to easily by the PR because of this terrible season, but he should make an exception for Lester, barring him being too outrageous. I believe in keeping it in the family if it has worked so far and Lester isnt over 30, he IS 30 so wouldnt break his rule.

What is Ben's philosphy?

[reYoukilis]

What is Ben's philosphy?

Of building a team through the farm system vs free agency and trades. But also mixing with the young players, veterans who bring alot of intangibles, smarts, toughness and a good locker room presence. Other things are to build a team who have hitters that have high OBP, pitchers who throw strikes, have a good D (at least where it counts the most, SS and CF) and a good bullpen.

[a700hitter]

Of building a team through the farm system vs free agency and trades. But also mixing with the young players, veterans who bring alot of intangibles, smarts, toughness and a good locker room presence. Other things are to build a team who have hitters that have high OBP, pitchers who throw strikes, have a good D (at least where it counts the most, SS and CF) and a good bullpen.

and this is a unique philosophy? Does it also include letting key homegrown talent walk? The 2013 team was built on quite a few free agents- victorino, Napoli, Comes, Drew, Dempster and Uehara. They were all signed in the off season before 2013.

[reYoukilis]

and this is a unique philosophy? Does it also include letting key homegrown talent walk? The 2013 team was built on quite a few free agents- victorino, Napoli, Comes, Drew, Dempster and Uehara. They were all signed in the off season before 2013.

Im not sure how unique it is but its more unique than youre making it sound. What I left out though is that the non-prospect players they brought in, along side being smart, tough and a good locker room presence is that they werent signed to long term contracts. The Yankees certainly dont live by that philosophy, their philosophy is who's the best player in the league?

[a700hitter]

Im not sure how unique it is but its more unique than youre making it sound. What I left out though is that the non-prospect players they brought in, along side being smart, tough and a good locker room presence is that they werent signed to long term contracts. The Yankees certainly dont live by that philosophy, their philosophy is who's the best player in the league?

Other than the Dodgers, what team can follow the Yankee philosophy. I don't think Ben has any unique philosophy, and he spends more on payroll than most teams. His moves worked out last year. He had the same philosophy this season and practically the same team and it blew up in his face.