The Jon Lester contract situation

[jacksonianmarch]

They wouldn't be interested in Stanton because of Grady Sizemore and Bryce Brentz? Lol. Btw, Lester is getting more and more expensive will every start

[Bellhorn04]

They wouldn't be interested in Stanton because of Grady Sizemore and Bryce Brentz? Lol. Btw, Lester is getting more and more expensive will every start

 

Can you imagine how motivated Lester is this year?

 

A bad season might only get him a $75 million contract. An outstanding season might get him $150 million. (Rough figures all.)

 

It's like he's got a $75 million bonus on the line.

[Station 13]

ESPN Insider said Lester market is $150M, someone will give him that, largely because he's a big game pitcher. Red Sox will need to up their offer by $40M minimum to retain him.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

and then blew the Teixeira sweepstakes in between.

I would LOVE to hear you explain how they "blew" it.

[mvp 78]

By blowing the sweepstakes, they won the war. Teix's contract sucks. It would've been a terrible signing that SBF would be bitching about if he was playing here.

[a700hitter]

I would LOVE to hear you explain how they "blew" it.

Whether or not it has turned out to be a good deal for the Yankees is not really relevant to the way they botched that negotiation. The Sox brass didn't walk away from the deal because they thought it was too rich. They wanted Tex badly. They botched it because they had their target in his house together with all the Sox top brass who had flown in. If they wanted him, they should have given him a take it or leave it offer and he probably would have signed. They left and the Yankees who had claimed no interest up to that point swooped in an got him. In the end it was a bad deal for the Yankees. The Sox FO was not right by design. In that case, their poor negotiating tactics worked in their favor.

[Bellhorn04]

Does anybody here know all the exact details about the Teixeira negotiations? I don't think so. Remember that Boras was his agent at the time. There were stories later that the Red Sox came into the meeting thinking that they had a deal, but that the deal Boras proposed was different from the one they thought they had. Supposedly that was when Lucchino went a little nuts on Boras. Then after the meeting Henry said that the Red Sox were out of it.

 

I have my doubts that the Yankees only swooped in after that meeting. I think Boras had probably been in contact with them. It would be very un-Boras like not to try to get the Yankees involved - as we all know, he wants every dollar that's out there.

 

Anyway we could re-hash it till Doomsday, it doesn't really matter.

[a700hitter]

Does anybody here know all the exact details about the Teixeira negotiations? I don't think so. Remember that Boras was his agent at the time. There were stories later that the Red Sox came into the meeting thinking that they had a deal, but that the deal Boras proposed was different from the one they thought they had. Supposedly that was when Lucchino went a little nuts on Boras. Then after the meeting Henry said that the Red Sox were out of it.

 

I have my doubts that the Yankees only swooped in after that meeting. I think Boras had probably been in contact with them. It would be very un-Boras like not to try to get the Yankees involved - as we all know, he wants every dollar that's out there.

 

Anyway we could re-hash it till Doomsday, it doesn't really matter.

Bells, what is this "the you can't be sure, because you weren't there defense"? A corollary to the "you don't know what it takes to run a professional team" tactic meant to shut down discussion. LOL!! Here is all we need to know about the Texeira negotiations. Henry and Lucchino and Epstein and whatever other top brass at the time went to Tex's home. This was a reported fact. Teams don't do that unless they seriously want a guy. I think we can deduce that. Every good salesman knows how to close. They didn't close. Period. That's all that needs to be known. Their front office had botched a few negotiations in Theo's tenure. It was not his strong suit. Edited April 18, 2014 by a700hitter

[Spudboy]

I certainly don't claim to know all the details. And really, I'm not sure that I remember all that I knew at the time!!!!

 

However, I have a recollection that the deal was reportedly "done" ( this is what I was hearing in the Boston media at the time ). Then seemingly overnight Horseface had a deal with the Yankees.

 

I remember that while the Sox were courting Horseface, the Boston media was reporting that the Yankees had no interest in him ( lol ). Then just before the Sox were about to sign Horseface, the Yankees signed Nick Swisher. I was jumping for joy at the time because I saw this as a major victory for the Sox! After all, the Sox were about to get the all world Horseface, while the Yankees had to sign Swisher.

 

Maybe my memory is not all that great?

 

In any case, the Yankees signed Horseface and he has been a monumental bust ( in MY OPINION!!! ), while Swisher proved to be a comparative steal by being productive and versatile for the Yankees for far less money. The Yankees should have kept Swisher. But hey, who the heck cares???? They made a mistake signing Horseface and compounded this mistake by letting Swisher slip away!!!!!!

 

Ultimately, as Bell says, it does not really matter.

[Bellhorn04]

Bells, what is this "the you can't be sure, because you weren't there defense"? A corollary to the "you don't know what it takes to run a professional team" tactic meant to shut down discussion. LOL!! Here is all we need to know about the Texeira negotiations. Henry and Lucchino and Epstein and whatever other top brass at the time went to Tex's home. This was a reported fact. Teams don't do that unless they seriously want a guy. I think we can deduce that. Every good salesman knows how to close. They didn't close. Period. That's all that needs to be known. Their front office had botched a few negotiations in Theo's tenure. It was not his strong suit.

 

Hey look, it's certainly a possibility that the Sox brass f***ed up. As we all know they also badly wanted A-Rod and threw away the deal for something like 12 million dollars or so that they didn't want to up their bid by.

 

But as far as not closing the deal on Teixeira goes, my feeling is that when you're dealing with Scotty Boras and he's got the Yankees on the line too, you're not in a great position. I suspect it was the same type of thing as A-Rod. Henry and Lucchino had a top figure in mind and they weren't going to increase it.

[Spudboy]

I thought that MLB or the Player's Association stepped in and nixed the A-Rod deal because the Sox wanted to restructure the deal at a lower aav?

[Bellhorn04]

I thought that MLB or the Player's Association stepped in and nixed the A-Rod deal because the Sox wanted to restructure the deal at a lower aav?

 

They nixed the original deal, but then they came up with another proposal that would have added something like 12 million to the cost. The Sox balked, thinking they'd be able to revisit, and then Aaron Boone played some hoops.

[seabeachfred]

I would LOVE to hear you explain how they "blew" it.

 

The Yankees signed Teixiera, he led the league in homers and RBI's in 2009 and the Yankees won the World Series that year. He also had solid year in 2010 and 2011 and both times the Yanks made the playoffs. The last two years were wasted but when you sign someone and he leads you to a WS title the contract you got him for was gold. And BTW, if we had had Teixiera in 2009 maybe he would have been the difference in our winning something instead of crawling into the playoffs and getting thumped three and out by the Angels. 2012, 2013 and beyond, well maybe you can say we didn't blow it.

[seabeachfred]

By blowing the sweepstakes, they won the war. Teix's contract sucks. It would've been a terrible signing that SBF would be bitching about if he was playing here.

 

Well I'll and everyone with a pair of balls will or should be bitching loudly if we fail to sign Jon Lester to an extension, and for the record, every game we wait to do it only drives his price higher and higher, and for the further record, WE HAVE NO ONE, NOT A DAMN PITCHER, who can replace him in the rotation, not Lackey, not Doubrant and certainly not Hangnail Buchholz. The fact that we have allowed this to go this far is absolutely insanity. Sign the guy and do it now.

[seabeachfred]

Does anybody here know all the exact details about the Teixeira negotiations? I don't think so. Remember that Boras was his agent at the time. There were stories later that the Red Sox came into the meeting thinking that they had a deal, but that the deal Boras proposed was different from the one they thought they had. Supposedly that was when Lucchino went a little nuts on Boras. Then after the meeting Henry said that the Red Sox were out of it.

 

I have my doubts that the Yankees only swooped in after that meeting. I think Boras had probably been in contact with them. It would be very un-Boras like not to try to get the Yankees involved - as we all know, he wants every dollar that's out there.

 

Anyway we could re-hash it till Doomsday, it doesn't really matter.

 

Well I can guarantee you that we will hashing the Lester thing way past Doomsday and every day of the week if Cherington blows it and let's him walk---especially if he goes to the Yankees. We might just kiss goodbye any chance of winning another WS in the forseeable future if that happens. It must not.

[seabeachfred]

Does anybody here know all the exact details about the Teixeira negotiations? I don't think so. Remember that Boras was his agent at the time. There were stories later that the Red Sox came into the meeting thinking that they had a deal, but that the deal Boras proposed was different from the one they thought they had. Supposedly that was when Lucchino went a little nuts on Boras. Then after the meeting Henry said that the Red Sox were out of it.

 

I have my doubts that the Yankees only swooped in after that meeting. I think Boras had probably been in contact with them. It would be very un-Boras like not to try to get the Yankees involved - as we all know, he wants every dollar that's out there.

 

Anyway we could re-hash it till Doomsday, it doesn't really matter.

 

And BTW, you say you remember me from other boards, well job that memory of yours. Didn't I predict that if we didn't close the deal the Yankees would swoop in and sign him? When the talks went on and on that's when I said the Yankees would take him even though all your Pollyanna friends on that old board still insisted it wouldn't happen. Remember?????? You seem to remember a lot of other things---you should remember that. And I predict that if we blow the Lester deal it will hurt even more AND HE WILL WIND UP IN PINSTRIPES.

Edited April 18, 2014 by seabeachfred

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

The Yankees signed Teixiera, he led the league in homers and RBI's in 2009 and the Yankees won the World Series that year. He also had solid year in 2010 and 2011 and both times the Yanks made the playoffs. The last two years were wasted but when you sign someone and he leads you to a WS title the contract you got him for was gold. And BTW, if we had had Teixiera in 2009 maybe he would have been the difference in our winning something instead of crawling into the playoffs and getting thumped three and out by the Angels. 2012, 2013 and beyond, well maybe you can say we didn't blow it.

Bull. s***. The fact that you cited RBI's already makes this a joke of a post.

 

You know who had more money than the Red Sox and needed Teixeira more than the Red Sox did that winter? The Yankees. Teixeira's agent was Scott Boras. Any reasonable person would be able to conclude, just from those tidbits, that whatever offer Boston laid out there would be taken right back to the Yankees so they could match and/or better it. The only way Teixeira would have ever found his way to Boston that winter was if the price tag got so inflated that even the Yankees walked away, at which point Teixeira would never be worth what we'd be paying him. Such a chain of events would likely have broken the baseball financial landscape as well, at least temporarily. People like you need to come to terms with the fact that Teixeira was never coming to Boston, not as long as the Yankees were involved.

 

Also kind of funny that you think the Red Sox "blew it" with Damon and Jason Bay. Damon played one year of that four year contract in New York as the regular center fielder. From 2007 onward he only played about a quarter of the season in CF, the rest of his games were either at DH or LF. He got bumped from CF for the immortal Melky Cabrera, who at that point was a good 4-5 years away from being a useful player. I'd really love to hear how you think the Red Sox win the World Series in 2007 with Damon lumbering around in CF instead of Crisp and Ellsbury. As for Bay, he fell off the face of the earth after leaving Boston. What exactly did we "blow" there?

[rjortiz]

Youkilis was fine at 1B. We needed a 3B, and we found one in Beltre in 2010.

[Bellhorn04]

And BTW, you say you remember me from other boards, well job that memory of yours. Didn't I predict that if we didn't close the deal the Yankees would swoop in and sign him? When the talks went on and on that's when I said the Yankees would take him even though all your Pollyanna friends on that old board still insisted it wouldn't happen. Remember?????? You seem to remember a lot of other things---you should remember that.

 

Of course I remember, Fred. And I've never denied that guys who predict doom and gloom all the time are going to be right sometimes.

[rjortiz]

Lester will not sign with the Yankees.

[seabeachfred]

Bull. s***. The fact that you cited RBI's already makes this a joke of a post.

 

You know who had more money than the Red Sox and needed Teixeira more than the Red Sox did that winter? The Yankees. Teixeira's agent was Scott Boras. Any reasonable person would be able to conclude, just from those tidbits, that whatever offer Boston laid out there would be taken right back to the Yankees so they could match and/or better it. The only way Teixeira would have ever found his way to Boston that winter was if the price tag got so inflated that even the Yankees walked away, at which point Teixeira would never be worth what we'd be paying him. Such a chain of events would likely have broken the baseball financial landscape as well, at least temporarily. People like you need to come to terms with the fact that Teixeira was never coming to Boston, not as long as the Yankees were involved.

 

Also kind of funny that you think the Red Sox "blew it" with Damon and Jason Bay. Damon played one year of that four year contract in New York as the regular center fielder. From 2007 onward he only played about a quarter of the season in CF, the rest of his games were either at DH or LF. He got bumped from CF for the immortal Melky Cabrera, who at that point was a good 4-5 years away from being a useful player. I'd really love to hear how you think the Red Sox win the World Series in 2007 with Damon lumbering around in CF instead of Crisp and Ellsbury. As for Bay, he fell off the face of the earth after leaving Boston. What exactly did we "blow" there?

 

******** yourself. The fact is the whole Red Sox hierarchy was in the Texas home of Teixiera and had him almost signed and sealed but it was Lucchino and Henry who didn't close the deal. From all reports Tex was ready to sign with us and when we didn't follow through that night and decided to crunch some numbers Boras went to the Yankees and they decided to get involved. Whether it t urned out to be a good deal for them or not the fact is we blew that signing because we couldn't finish the final lap. And until then the Yankees were NOT even involved in the Teixiera talks. As for RBI's, a lot of you young buck have bought into this other s*** that has permeated the stats boards by number crunchers and some of the s*** they pass off as solid contributions to offensive stats. RBI means run batted in.....it means hitting with runners in scoring position, something we've been derelict at so far and why we're at the bottom of the river. As for Jason Bay, he got banged with a couple of crashes into the wall in the Mets ballpark and was never the same again. When he played for the Red Sox he hit 36 homers and drove in 119 runs and we replaced him with a guy named Cameron who couldn't hit worth s*** and forgot how to field as well and was DFA's early the next year. I don't call that improvement. As for Damon, he still was a solid hitter and base runner. Crisp never hit worth s*** for us in the three years he played in Boston and one reason the crowd went wild in the sixth game of the 2007 ALCS when Franona woke up and announced that Ellsbury would be the CF. If you are going to accuse me of dealing in ******** don't deal in ******** yourself.

 

And BTW, your namesake got two more hits tonight and is batting 373. What is Bradley batting?

[seabeachfred]

Of course I remember, Fred. And I've never denied that guys who predict doom and gloom all the time are going to be right sometimes.

 

By gloom and doom are we talking about how you and your friends merely said the Red Sox were just having a temporary lull of bad play while my buddies on the other side called it what it was....a complete meltdown and collapse. Remember September, 2011. Mr. Gloom and Doom predicted on July 26th of that year that if the Sox has another bad streak it would be a total collapse. Remember that too? I don't like gloom and doom at all but I have never shied away from looking a bald fact in the face. Sometimes the truth hurts.

[seabeachfred]

Lester will not sign with the Yankees.

 

OK!!!!!! Tell me how to came to those pearls. And who the hell will he sign with? I know who he should sign with and it's a no brainer for some of us.

[rjortiz]

Yankees will be around $185 million after arbitration and their $12 million contribution to player benefits. They will have holes at 2B, SS, DH, SP (1), CL, and most likely 3B. How much they will be able to spend this offseason depends on how they perform this year. If they are out of the race in September, they could be in trouble for 2015. Even if they make the playoffs, pushing the payroll over $210 million before addressing the offense is pretty unlikely.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

******** yourself. The fact is the whole Red Sox hierarchy was in the Texas home of Teixiera and had him almost signed and sealed but it was Lucchino and Henry who didn't close the deal. From all reports Tex was ready to sign with us and when we didn't follow through that night and decided to crunch some numbers Boras went to the Yankees and they decided to get involved. Whether it t urned out to be a good deal for them or not the fact is we blew that signing because we couldn't finish the final lap.

Well, find better reports. Or better yet, stop using "reports" as a crutch and use common sense instead. The Yankees were always going to get the opportunity to match/trump the offer for the reasons I mentioned above, regardless of whatever Lucchino pulled. They had more money, they needed him more than the Red Sox did, and Boras was his agent. Do the f***ing math.

 

And until then the Yankees were NOT even involved in the Teixiera talks.

You don't actually believe this, do you?

 

As for RBI's, a lot of you young buck have bought into this other s*** that has permeated the stats boards by number crunchers and some of the s*** they pass off as solid contributions to offensive stats. RBI means run batted in.....it means hitting with runners in scoring position, something we've been derelict at so far and why we're at the bottom of the river.

RBI is the worst offensive stat in baseball. The worst. It tells you nothing. It's literally a measure of whether someone happened to be on base when player X came to the plate. It is luck. And that's a fact.

 

As for Jason Bay, he got banged with a couple of crashes into the wall in the Mets ballpark and was never the same again. When he played for the Red Sox he hit 36 homers and drove in 119 runs and we replaced him with a guy named Cameron who couldn't hit worth s*** and forgot how to field as well and was DFA's early the next year. I don't call that improvement.

What would Bay have contributed in 2010, and what would the team have done with him in tow? Tell me. Would that be the year we win the world series that we would not have won in 2007 if Damon was playing center field?

 

As for Damon, he still was a solid hitter and base runner. Crisp never hit worth s*** for us in the three years he played in Boston and one reason the crowd went wild in the sixth game of the 2007 ALCS when Franona woke up and announced that Ellsbury would be the CF. If you are going to accuse me of dealing in ******** don't deal in ******** yourself.

Has it ever occurred to you that MAYBE, just MAYBE, Crisp's defense in CF played a big part in the quality of our pitching that year? Damon would've been a total liability in CF and there was no place else on the field to put him, unless you think that sitting Manny or Ortiz would've been a good idea. Let me repeat, Damon wasn't bumped from CF by the Yankees because they acquired someone better. They moved him to LF/DH duty and plugged in a replacement player in CF, because that's how much Damon stunk playing that position at that point in his career. And you wanted him playing next to Manny?

 

And BTW, your namesake got two more hits tonight and is batting 373. What is Bradley batting?

Bradley's batting like a rookie, although he does a solid job of getting on base. Ellsbury, as of this fine mid-April night, is hitting like a guy whose getting paid 20-25 million a year for his decline phase.

 

I've said this before, but thank god you're not the GM. It would be 84 win season after 84 win season.

Edited April 19, 2014 by Jacoby_Ellsbury

[rjortiz]

 

I've said this before, but thank god you're not the GM. It would be 84 win season after 84 win season.

 

I think you're off by a factor of 10 on wins. He would freak out and cut players after a couple of AB's. He would down to the DSL Red Sox roster before the season was over.

[a700hitter]

J_E, you are all worked up. LOL!!! What difference does it make if the Sox lucked out by getting screwed over by the Yankees in Tex sweepstakes? There was a way to not give Tex the chance to see if the Yankees would match the Sox offer. You don't leave his house unless you have his signature --a take it or leave it offer. The yankees have done that very successfully in negotiations. Make your final offer and tell the player when you leave the offer will be withdrawn and there will not be another offer. The Sox brass didn't close the deal with their whole executive team there. That was a failure. He was the centerpiece of the offseason plan. They didn't get it done when they had him cornered and the Yanks hadn't even entered the process. Don't get your undies twisted in a knot. Theo f***ed up plenty of negotiations. He made an utter fool of himself trying to sign Jose Contreras. He misjudged the market for Dice K and outbid everyone by a mile, and he way overpaid Carl Crawford, Julio Lugo and Renteria. He really was terrible at negotiating, but it's past history and we have 3 championships despite those mistakes.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

If the Red Sox brass had done like you say, and glued themselves to Tex's living room couches and issued a take-it-or-leave-it offer, and Teixeira said no (which he and Boras would have, because Boras doesn't fall for s*** like that and Teixeira had no special allegiance to Boston), you and Fred and whoever would still be accusing the FO of dragging their ankles and "blowing the deal." The deck was stacked against them all along in the Teixeira sweepstakes.

[a700hitter]

If the Red Sox brass had done like you say, and glued themselves to Tex's living room couches and issued a take-it-or-leave-it offer, and Teixeira said no (which he and Boras would have, because Boras doesn't fall for s*** like that and Teixeira had no special allegiance to Boston), you and Fred and whoever would still be accusing the FO of dragging their ankles "blowing the deal." The deck was stacked against them all along in the Teixeira sweepstakes.

LOL!! Maybe I would have blamed them anyway. Theo had a very poor history in salary negotiations. His record was long and undistinguished in negotiations and signings.

[Bellhorn04]

J_E, you are all worked up. LOL!!! What difference does it make if the Sox lucked out by getting screwed over by the Yankees in Tex sweepstakes? There was a way to not give Tex the chance to see if the Yankees would match the Sox offer. You don't leave his house unless you have his signature --a take it or leave it offer. The yankees have done that very successfully in negotiations. Make your final offer and tell the player when you leave the offer will be withdrawn and there will not be another offer. The Sox brass didn't close the deal with their whole executive team there. That was a failure. He was the centerpiece of the offseason plan. They didn't get it done when they had him cornered and the Yanks hadn't even entered the process. Don't get your undies twisted in a knot. Theo f***ed up plenty of negotiations. He made an utter fool of himself trying to sign Jose Contreras. He misjudged the market for Dice K and outbid everyone by a mile, and he way overpaid Carl Crawford, Julio Lugo and Renteria. He really was terrible at negotiating, but it's past history and we have 3 championships despite those mistakes.

 

How do you know this? You don't.

 

I think the only plausible explanation for why that meeting with Teixeira went sideways is that it was when they found out that the Yankees had indeed entered the process.

 

It's actually pretty implausible that the Yankees had no interest in Tex until then, and suddenly decided to pull $180 million out of the sock drawer to scoop him up.