Sox land Pierzynski

[User Name]

How in hell did the Sox loose out on Hanigan to the Rays of all teams. Hanigan's 3 year deal is far superior to the Sox 1 year deal with A.J.

 

No it isn't. Vasquez/Swihart are the catchers of the future. A catcher on a short deal is what they needed. even though Hanigan is clearly a better catcher.

[Palodios]

So just to recap... The Tigers got a team's #5 prospect for a top of the rotation starter, and the Reds got a team's #6 prospect for a catcher who hit .198 last year.

[User Name]

So just to recap... The Tigers got a team's #5 prospect for a top of the rotation starter, and the Reds got a team's #6 prospect for a catcher who hit .198 last year.

 

And salary relief for Heath Bell's horrendous contract.

[BornToRun]

So just to recap... The Tigers got a team's #5 prospect for a top of the rotation starter, and the Reds got a team's #6 prospect for a catcher who hit .198 last year.

 

I really wonder what the f*** Dave Dombrowski was smoking when he made that deal. Lombardozzi is a fungible asset, Krol is a bullpen arm from what I've read, and Ray is a nice prospect but nothing amazing. Doug Fister is really good and under control for 2 more years at a very low price for the production he provides.

[Dojji]

I think we got the catcher we needed. When i was arguing with the Hanigan crowd someone challenged me to come up with alternatives to Hanigan that were not rookies, Pierzynski was the first good idea I stumbled across, and as I kept looking, the only real option that made sense (if you assume that the team was never that serious about McCann). That told me this had a chance of happning. I'm not really all that surprised. The plan at this point isn't hard to identify -- they'll go after another veteran to split starts with a rookie next year, and then look at which of two young catchers or youngster and backup makes the most sense.

[BornToRun]

I'm hearing Salty to the Marlins FWIW. Good luck to him.

 

His defense was never a plus but he showed noticeable improvement as a hitter and I don't think his 2013 BABIP was entirely a mirage.

 

He walked more, swung less, and he hit more line drives. His high K rates and his contact % suggests that he might have trouble hitting for enough average to put up quite what he did this year going forward but I honestly think he's gotten much better as a hitter since 2011.

 

I wish the best for him in Miami and hope he gets a good ovation should he ever return to Fenway at some point.

[iortiz]

I would have loved to have Hanigan for 3 years, starting this year and then taking the young kids under his wing over the next couple years.

 

With David Ross gone after next season, it would have been a perfect fit. Hanigan would still be able to catch 90+ games in 2015 while Vazquez gets accustomed to the big league schedule.

 

Would have been a great fit.

While I kind of like the AJ signing, I like more this. I only wonder what would we have had to give up to land Hanigan...

[Palodios]

Here's the crazy part. Tampa just paid 6 million for Heath Bell. They NEVER pay big bucks on players, and they ALWAYS turn over the hill relievers into all-stars.

 

Pal's 1st fearless prediction of the year -- Heath Bell is the most valuable piece traded in this deal.

[User Name]

I'm hearing Salty to the Marlins FWIW. Good luck to him.

 

His defense was never a plus but he showed noticeable improvement as a hitter and I don't think his 2013 BABIP was entirely a mirage.

 

He walked more, swung less, and he hit more line drives. His high K rates and his contact % suggests that he might have trouble hitting for enough average to put up quite what he did this year going forward but I honestly think he's gotten much better as a hitter since 2011.

 

I wish the best for him in Miami and hope he gets a good ovation should he ever return to Fenway at some point.

 

If you don't think a .372 BABIP was a mirage for a guy who K's a ton, doesn't make above average contact inside or outside the zone, and whose LD% was significantly higher than his average % from years past, well then i've got a bridge to sell you.

[seabeachfred]

Ben knows what he's doing IMO.

 

Ben knows what he's doing with a short contract....that's a plus. But what kind of guy is this? He was hated by his Giants teammates in 2004, and there was cheering all around when he left that team after that season. I have no record of his relationships with his teammates in Chi Town and Texas, but he has won before and maybe that might trump some other things. I know only this, though. We cannot have a problem of sorts in the clubhouse next season. We were perhaps the most united and spirited team in baseball this season and while that isn't everything it sure counts for something.

[User Name]

Ben knows what he's doing with a short contract....that's a plus. But what kind of guy is this? He was hated by his Giants teammates in 2004, and there was cheering all around when he left that team after that season. I have no record of his relationships with his teammates in Chi Town and Texas, but he has won before and maybe that might trump some other things. I know only this, though. We cannot have a problem of sorts in the clubhouse next season. We were perhaps the most united and spirited team in baseball this season and while that isn't everything it sure counts for something.

 

His ex-teammates in CWS speak wonders of him, and he won a sportsmanship award in Texas. Other than SF, he has been well regarded by his teammates.

[win red sox]

If you don't think a .372 BABIP was a mirage for a guy who K's a ton, doesn't make above average contact inside or outside the zone, and whose LD% was significantly higher than his average % from years past, well then i've got a bridge to sell you.

 

kind of like Napoli's numbers?

[marklmw]

No it isn't. Vasquez/Swihart are the catchers of the future. A catcher on a short deal is what they needed. even though Hanigan is clearly a better catcher.

 

2014 - Hanigan - Ross - Vasquez

2015 - Hanigan - Vasquez - Butler

2016 - Vasquez - Hanigan - Swihart

2017 - Vasquez - Swihart -

[User Name]

kind of like Napoli's numbers?

 

Yeah, actually. I haven't dared mention it though, lest the wrath of Fred (who wasn't exactly high on Napoli after the hip condition became public, let it be known) make lightning strike me where i stand.

 

The main difference, however, is that Napoli is an extremely patient hitter, and there's some precedent to massive BABIP fluctuations with "three-true-outcome" guys without affecting their final line too much. A regression in BABIP (and therefore BA) with an increase in power output and walk% is not only possible, but somewhat likely.

[User Name]

2014 - Hanigan - Ross - Vasquez

2015 - Hanigan - Vasquez - Butler

2016 - Vasquez - Hanigan - Swihart

2017 - Vasquez - Swihart -

 

You do know finding a veteran catcher to have a timeshare with Vasquez for 2015 is not difficult at all, right mark?

[seabeachfred]

Ok. Thank you.

 

Now what do you think the next move is?

 

I think the Sox dump one pitcher now via trade for some young arms. Make a run for Ells and resign Napoli. Move Workman into the rotation and Dempster into the bullpen/spot starting roll. Peavy is probably the odd man to move clearing payroll and if Ells moves on they make a deal with LA if they believe Kemp will be ready in 2014 with LA eating a small part of Kemp's contract. Say wow Ben great moves and call it a nice offseason and look to contend for another title in 2014.

 

Out here in LA, the Times quoted Dodger GM Ned Colletti as saying he isn't going to trade any of his four outfielders, so that means Kemp is staying put along wth the selfish Ethier, the goofball Puig and the moaner and complainer Crawford....making for one unhappy ******* of the bunch each game. I say resign Napoli and Ellsbury and I think we can make a strong move towards a division title and a run in the playoffs next season.

[iortiz]

You do know finding a veteran catcher to have a timeshare with Vasquez for 2015 is not difficult at all, right mark?

 

with Hanigan's upside? IDK.

 

I think that Marks's point makes a lot of sense. IMO Hanigan move was a steal.

[seabeachfred]

Nice tidbit. Good find.

 

And by the way, wasn't there some choice negative words aimed Nievas' way on this board and other boards? Yes, there was and I was one of them. Juan did a hell of a job with our pitchers this past season and maybe someone should give a nod or two. Good news hearing that he endorses our getting AJ. As for Salty, thanks for the memories and please turn out the light before you leave......and Good Luck to you. After all you were a part of a terrific season we will all remember for the rest of our lives. I sent away for the 2013 World Series DVD and I'm waiting impatiently for it to arrive. It will make for some real viewing enjoyment.

[User Name]

with Hanigan's upside? IDK.

 

I think that Marks's point makes a lot of sense. IMO Hanigan move was a steal.

 

I'd agree if the Rays didn't have to absorb the shitfest that is known as Heath Bell and a significant amount of money from his contract. Don't get me wrong, i like Hanigan, but Bell? Ewwww.

[seabeachfred]

His ex-teammates in CWS speak wonders of him, and he won a sportsmanship award in Texas. Other than SF, he has been well regarded by his teammates.

 

Well if that's true it certainly passes muster with me User. I do know he calls a good game, has been with winners and has a pretty potent left handed bat. What I like more is that neither Vasquez or Swihart will be blocked when their time comes and we can have two good catchers on the same team unless Swihart is moved to another position because of the potential of his bat. Now guess what we have to do next?

[seabeachfred]

Yeah, actually. I haven't dared mention it though, lest the wrath of Fred (who wasn't exactly high on Napoli after the hip condition became public, let it be known) make lightning strike me where i stand.

 

The main difference, however, is that Napoli is an extremely patient hitter, and there's some precedent to massive BABIP fluctuations with "three-true-outcome" guys without affecting their final line too much. A regression in BABIP (and therefore BA) with an increase in power output and walk% is not only possible, but somewhat likely.

 

You're right.......up to a point. I didn't like it when that hip condition was discovered at Nap's physical but I never said I didn't want him on the team. In fact, I really wanted him to get that three year contract and just take the chance he would be fine. Well he turned out to be fine but I wasn't the GM and I can understand Ben's consternation about getting a damaged good player. Nap was big for us this past season and I hope we do not low ball him and drive him away. He is great fit for our team.......and I have the best source of proof sitting right next to me.......my wife Linda. She loved Napoli and was really chapped when the Angels sent him away. He was a leader and took charge of things when and wherever he played. Man, I wish we sign him as soon as possible so I can exhale.

[User Name]

Well if that's true it certainly passes muster with me User. I do know he calls a good game, has been with winners and has a pretty potent left handed bat. What I like more is that neither Vasquez or Swihart will be blocked when their time comes and we can have two good catchers on the same team unless Swihart is moved to another position because of the potential of his bat. Now guess what we have to do next?

 

I know this one! Sign a relief pitcher!

[marklmw]

I'd agree if the Rays didn't have to absorb the shitfest that is known as Heath Bell and a significant amount of money from his contract. Don't get me wrong, i like Hanigan, but Bell? Ewwww.

 

True but the cost of Hanigan and Bell combined for 2014 may well come in around the same as A.J.'s one year deal and maybe the Rays know something about Bell ... he could he be a help to their pen?

[Northern Star]

Salty's gone - hurrah! Replaced with a guy with a worse OPS - wait wat?

[User Name]

Salty's gone - hurrah! Replaced with a guy with a worse OPS - wait wat?

 

Who the f*** cares about OPS when the new catcher can actually call a game and throw a runner out?

[User Name]

Also, Pierzynski (a natural LHB) had a higher OPS against lefties than Salty (a switch-hitter) last season.

[VA Sox Fan]

Who the f*** cares about OPS when the new catcher can actually call a game and throw a runner out?

 

Thank you.

[Behindenemylines]

yeah ... Ew is right but it is only for 1 year ... seems high to me

 

This is the new norm for the Sox. High $$$$ for low years, and when the kids are ready plug them in. I'm okay with this deal. Both A.J. and Ross are better handling a staff then Salty and I think they will put up numbers north of what Salty did in 2013.

[wyo-sox]

Why does everyone assume Salty can't call a game or handle the staff? Our 5 primary starters era averaged lower with Salty than with Ross. I averaged out the numbers this morning, with the primary 5 they averaged 3.49 era. Did anyone see Clay pitching to Salty? Koji pitching to Salty? Salty will apparently never throw out base runners, he is frustrating as hell to watch bat.... but the pitchers pitched just fine to him.

[User Name]

Are you seriously trying to compare the samples of Ross and Salty for last year? That's an exercise in futility