Will Red Sox pursue Japanese Ace - Masahiro Tanaka?

[Palodios]

I agree with UN?

 

Why trade a guy who you will need to eat money to get rid of, will probably perform like a #3, will be very difficult to replace and who absolutely loves it here?

[Bellhorn04]

I agree with UN?

 

Why trade a guy who you will need to eat money to get rid of, will probably perform like a #3, will be very difficult to replace and who absolutely loves it here?

 

OK forget about Peavy...what about Dempster.

[Palodios]

OK forget about Peavy...what about Dempster.

 

That depends on the market. He seems like a guy that is worth more to the Red Sox than to teams who want him. Eating more than 3-5 million would be a mistake.

[Bellhorn04]

That depends on the market. He seems like a guy that is worth more to the Red Sox than to teams who want him. Eating more than 3-5 million would be a mistake.

 

Yeah, I don't think they should eat more than that either.

[sk7326]

Now the rotation is not a huge priority certainly - but there are positive value fliers out there, and a couple of staff ace sorts in the trade market to at least see how unreasonable the demands are. Certainly I wouldn't put this ahead of relief pitching or improved certainty in the outfield.

[Bellhorn04]

Now the rotation is not a huge priority certainly - but there are positive value fliers out there, and a couple of staff ace sorts in the trade market to at least see how unreasonable the demands are. Certainly I wouldn't put this ahead of relief pitching or improved certainty in the outfield.

 

I don't see how we can add cost in starting pitching without also subtracting cost in starting pitching.

[RedSoxNC84]

I don't see how we can add cost in starting pitching without also subtracting cost in starting pitching.

 

Maybe starting pitching isn't something they are really looking at. Aside from MLBTR that said they "really want" Hudson, there is no other evidence of them really making moves for SP. The rotation isn't perfect, but it has far fewer holes in it than it did before. Even Dempster pitched well enough to win us games most of the time, sometimes the offense carried him to wins even when he was bad. He's a solid #5 though. Peavy is an excellent #4 and could easily fill the 3 slot if (when) Buchholz gets injured (again.) The pitching staff doesn't really need any tweaking.

 

I'm starting to think that maybe their focus is going to be on Napoli/Beltran/Salty/McCann/Hanigan for most of the offseason.

[sk7326]

I don't see how we can add cost in starting pitching without also subtracting cost in starting pitching.

 

Well it depends on their priorities and what they are willing to pay - their desired profit margins and such. The revenue will go up - winning a title does that. This is not an argument for taking on a long term deal, unless it was a Cy Young winner who is 2 years younger than Jon Lester and not likely to sniff a 90 win season anytime soon - not that such a player is remotely available. But short run value plays are not bad things - especially if it allows them to deal with the rest of their pitching in a manner they want. Now, I do think Peavy is locked in, but he also has a pretty friendly deal by today's standards - as long as you are not expecting Oscar Taveras coming back or anything. I don't mind the idea of signing another veteran and spinning Dempster off ... given Buchholz' health there is merit, especially if Allen Webster's early non-groundball tendencies are a harbinger. Overall, I think the pitching question is interesting - because there is some market upside - but clearly if they stood pat, it would not be a tragedy.

[seabeachfred]

I still don't get all this verbiage about trading or getting rid of Jake Peavy. Yes, he has a couple of rough outings in the post season but he is still a quality pitcher who won some big games for us and would be a very good No. 4 or 5 man. Why bring in a 38 year old like Tim Hudson who best days are certainly behind him and who'se to say that he'd be an improvement over Jake anyway. If we have to jettison someone make it Dempter.

[sk7326]

What fans who want to deal Peavy look at are his salary and his postseason performance. But if you want to just use those datapoints:

 

1. He had 3 starts. One bad, one good, one in between. So - if that's what you want to use - he's a guy in the middle.

2. He is making $14ish for 1 year with a vesting option he will never hit. That is a completely justifiable salary for a mid-level starter.

3. Peavy was pretty good in 2011/2012, and last year his peripherals were ok. The homeruns were a problem, but a year at Fenway should aid that.

 

There is no reason to move him.

[jung]

I don't think Peavy should go either. The Sox do seem to have something of a log jam of rotation guys from #3 down. Lets face it, if Buch cannot find a way to stay on the field more than he does, he is really maybe not more than the best of our growing cadre of 3's.

[vjcsmoke]

PS the proposed change to the bidding system is to average the highest two bids and set that as the payment price to the winner.

 

http://riveraveblues.com/2013/11/davidoff-mlb-and-npb-have-virtually-agreed-on-new-posting-system-96261/

 

Honestly, I think the player should have some input into what team he goes to. I think what should have been done was - top 3 bids win a right to negotiate. Then player and his agent can negotiate with those 3 teams, and pick the winner. This way the team that offers the most desirable situation and contract gets the player as long as they are in the top 3 bids.

 

Of course the problem with this system is that it benefits the player more than it does the selling team.

But imagine this situation -

 

Team 1 bid 80m

Team 2 bid 60m

Team 3 bid 40m

 

Team 3 can offer a vastly more lucrative contract deal to the player because their cost of acquisition is much lower. Hmm I dunno, there must be a better way, but I can't think of it right now. LOL.

[marklmw]

That depends on the market. He seems like a guy that is worth more to the Red Sox than to teams who want him. Eating more than 3-5 million would be a mistake.

Dempster is due 14M in 2013. We can have Workman or Dubront take his spot for 500K ... Even if Boston can unload 7M of Dempsters contract that can go a long way in the bullpen.

[marklmw]

PS the proposed change to the bidding system is to average the highest two bids and set that as the payment price to the winner.

 

http://riveraveblues.com/2013/11/davidoff-mlb-and-npb-have-virtually-agreed-on-new-posting-system-96261/

 

Honestly, I think the player should have some input into what team he goes to. I think what should have been done was - top 3 bids win a right to negotiate. Then player and his agent can negotiate with those 3 teams, and pick the winner. This way the team that offers the most desirable situation and contract gets the player as long as they are in the top 3 bids.

 

Of course the problem with this system is that it benefits the player more than it does the selling team.

But imagine this situation -

 

Team 1 bid 80m

Team 2 bid 60m

Team 3 bid 40m

 

Team 3 can offer a vastly more lucrative contract deal to the player because their cost of acquisition is much lower. Hmm I dunno, there must be a better way, but I can't think of it right now. LOL.

 

You answered your own question ... why would the selling club want to take less money? These players are assets of the club. The only way this will change is if there is a change in law or guidelines voted on by the governing organization. Why would the owners group agree to this? They will not. This is business and the team ownership invests a lot of money throughout their organization ... sometimes a player works out and they make money sometimes a players does not work out and they loose money.

[Palodios]

Dempster is due 14M in 2013. We can have Workman or Dubront take his spot for 500K ... Even if Boston can unload 7M of Dempsters contract that can go a long way in the bullpen.

 

By moving Dempster, not only do you remove one capable #4/5 starter from your team, you are also hurting the bullpen by taking Workman out of it. Find me a player coming off 9 innings of 0 ERA pitching in the postseason, and I will find you a contract that exceeds 7 million dollars.

[marklmw]

By moving Dempster, not only do you remove one capable #4/5 starter from your team, you are also hurting the bullpen by taking Workman out of it. Find me a player coming off 9 innings of 0 ERA pitching in the postseason, and I will find you a contract that exceeds 7 million dollars.

 

Assuming that Buchholz is healthy who would you rather have pitching in the # 5 spot ... Dubront or Dempster?

[Palodios]

Assuming that Buchholz is healthy who would you rather have pitching in the # 5 spot ... Dubront or Dempster?

 

Assumptions make fools out of all of us. Buchholz always is hurt. He went on the DL for a hangnail. Not only are you depending on him being healthy, you're depending on the rest of the rotation to be healthy, and in shape. I bet Lackey gains back atleast 10 pounds, and don't get me started on Dubront. Murphey's law is a thing.

[marklmw]

Assumptions make fools out of all of us. Buchholz always is hurt. He went on the DL for a hangnail. Not only are you depending on him being healthy, you're depending on the rest of the rotation to be healthy, and in shape. I bet Lackey gains back atleast 10 pounds, and don't get me started on Dubront. Murphey's law is a thing.

 

True Palodios True but you are talking about baseball economics and you never answered the question. Dempster or Dubront ... if Dubront then Dempster is an expensive # 6 is he not. I would expect getting a prospect in the deal if the Sox eat part of Dempsters contract ... if they don't have to eat anything they can let him go for a piece of cake in return. If your answer is Dubront and a player goes down I would rather call up some of the youngsters and give them MLB experience. Webster, etc.

[marklmw]

Dempster's ERA for 2013 postseason was 3.00

[mvp 78]

Assuming that Buchholz is healthy who would you rather have pitching in the # 5 spot ... Dubront or Dempster?

 

Doubront.

[marklmw]

Doubront.

Absolutely Doubront. Dempster is way too expensive for what he gives you. Unload his 14M contract. Still waiting to hear from Palodios

[dupree]

I hope we dump Demp. Doubront is the much better option. Demp needs to go back to the NL if he wants to stay a starter. If he would be willing to take a bullpen role he is overpaid to be a long reliever and not enough velocity or shear stuff to be a closer. Bottom line is he gives innings not saying they are good innings by no means but he is an innings eater and thats what he does, that being said if cherries keeps him i see it as an insurance policy if anyone is hurt coming into the season. But i hoped he is moved before the season and would rather have Workman as the 6th starter.

[marklmw]

I hope we dump Demp. Doubront is the much better option. Demp needs to go back to the NL if he wants to stay a starter. If he would be willing to take a bullpen role he is overpaid to be a long reliever and not enough velocity or shear stuff to be a closer. Bottom line is he gives innings not saying they are good innings by no means but he is an innings eater and thats what he does, that being said if cherries keeps him i see it as an insurance policy if anyone is hurt coming into the season. But i hoped he is moved before the season and would rather have Workman as the 6th starter.

 

 

I would bet a steak dinner that management is also thinking along these lines. Dempster can be a decent 4-5 in the NL.

[Bellhorn04]

I would bet a steak dinner that management is also thinking along these lines. Dempster can be a decent 4-5 in the NL.

 

Again with the steak dinner?

[marklmw]

Again with the steak dinner?

Yeah ... I love a good steak. No one has taken me up yet.

[Bellhorn04]

Yeah ... I love a good steak. No one has taken me up yet.

 

I might take you up but it would be difficult to collect since we live like 1000 miles apart.

[sk7326]

Absolutely Doubront. Dempster is way too expensive for what he gives you. Unload his 14M contract. Still waiting to hear from Palodios

 

I think they'd like to. But it's not a bad contract ... 1 year for a durable guy who misses bats decently. He was important for them the way Tim Wakefield was in years past. If he's your worst pitcher, life is not that bad. I'd want to at least get an Engel Beltre sort of lotto ticket for him if I'm eating salary.

[mvp 78]

I might take you up but it would be difficult to collect since we live like 1000 miles apart.

 

That's what gift cards are for.

[marklmw]

I might take you up but it would be difficult to collect since we live like 1000 miles apart.

Where do you live Bellhorn?

[marklmw]

That's what gift cards are for.

You make a good point mvp