2014 Roster Projections

[seabeachfred]

Ryan "the Real Deal" Lavarnway

 

We'll have to wait on that one mvp. In a short try with the Red Sox this season he hit close to 300 and his defense was not bad at all. If he washes out I'll be the first to let you know and give you kudos, but if he succeeds elsewhere which I think he will you will also hear from me. Fair enough?

[seabeachfred]

I didn't say i don't wanna see him traded. I'm saying SS won't shut the f*** up about him. We get it, SoxSport wants Dempster gone, mark wants Tanaka,, and SFF wants Stanton. Now can we please move along?

 

Fair enough User but add me to the droners. I want Napoli back and very badly.

[User Name]

It is not retarded and it is well said. Stupid contracts do block young players. It kept Kalish in the minors for an over-the-hill injury prone JD Drew and it cost us a good young player. Crisp held back Ellsbury in 2008 despite Jacoby's stellar 2007 season when he was called up. That matter wasn't resolved until Coco was traded to KC after the 2008 season, so Jacoby was also temporarily blocked. And right now a couple of young pitchers might be blocked because of people like Dempster and Bailey are still around. Stupid contracts do lead to players being blocked and I would like to see both items become a thing of the past from here on in.

 

Coco held back Ellsbury in 2008? Ellsbury got 609 plate appearances in 2008. Please don't make stuff up.

 

As for Kalish, that is a silly argument and you know it. He kept getting injured, that's the extent of it. He had chances to stay up with the big club at least as a part-time player until he could grab a starting gig.

 

Of course you're conveniently forgetting the massive amount of homegrown players that got to the Red Sox starting in 2007, because like SoxSport, you have an awful case of selective memory.

 

Don't let facts (like the fact that the Red Sox were one of the teams featuring the highest amount of homegrown players in the league every year except in 2011) get in the way of a biased idea.

[seabeachfred]

You mean Webster and RDLR, right?

 

Webster maybe; RDLR? I don't think so. But we will have to see on that. I will say this out loud. I hope I'm wrong about those two and if I am I will admit it.

[seabeachfred]

Coco held back Ellsbury in 2008? Ellsbury got 609 plate appearances in 2008. Please don't make stuff up.

 

As for Kalish, that is a silly argument and you know it. He kept getting injured, that's the extent of it. He had chances to stay up with the big club at least as a part-time player until he could grab a starting gig.

 

Of course you're conveniently forgetting the massive amount of homegrown players that got to the Red Sox starting in 2007, because like SoxSport, you have an awful case of selective memory.

 

Don't let facts (like the fact that the Red Sox were one of the teams featuring the highest amount of homegrown players in the league every year except in 2011) get in the way of a biased idea.

 

Massive amount? You mean Pedroia, who many people wanted sent down again and a trade made for Ronnie Belliard? Remember that? I do. Or Jacoby Ellsbury who wasn't brought up until the summer and still was on the bench for the weak hitting Crisp until Manny got hurt and he got his chance? That guy? Where's the rest of the massive bunch who came up. Wasn't Tek, or Mikey or Lugo or Youk. It wasn't Manny or JD or Beckett or Lester. It wasn't Wakefield or Schilling or our reserve catcher whose name escapes me. And certainly you aren't suggesting that Dice K was "home grown" are you? OK. There was Clay Buchholz brought up late that season but three players doesn't translate into "massive" and both Clay and Jacoby was on the bench until one player got hurt and an emergency pitcher was needed. The 2007 team was my favorite Red Sox club so as you can see I know that team pretty damn well.

 

My main theme was that we need to make room for players who are ready to take over and we didn't do that for the years after 2007.

[redsoxfan3]

McCann would be nice but very expensive. This is not Theo Epstein's era. Cherington won using a different formula. Hanigan has a .349 OBP versus right-handed pitchers for his career. Hanigan's OPS is better if we throw out last season's injury marred season. He is the type of batter and defensive player the Sox employed this past season to win the World Series. Btw, David Ross has a .321 OPS versus right-handed pitchers in his career and a .325 versus lefties.

 

What does Theo Epstein have to do with signing FA's for 2014? I never mentioned anything about Theo Epstein, not to mention I was using McCann as a comparison that I think he would be a better option to platoon with Ross. Everyone needs to get over Epstein. Cherington is going to try his best to sign short-term contracts, but there are going to be exceptions along the way. McCann might be one of those exceptions.

 

I think you are referring to OBP. Ross had a .273 OBP last year against RHP. It was well below his career average. No one knows if Ross will bounce back to his career average against RHP. I just don't like a platoon with Ross and Hanigan as my first option. Maybe it is just me.

 

I do understand that Hanigan is the "type of batter and defensive player the Sox employed this past season to win the World Series." I just don't understand why we need two of the same type of player. We already have one of that type of player in Ross. Last season we did not have two types of the same player at catcher to win the World Series. I think it is a better option to have a guy like Salty or McCann to hit LH against RHP. While Ross was huge in the postseason, he only played 36 games during the regular season. Not to mention Hanigan only played in 75. I realize we have Lavarnway if need be, but I would much rather have a guy like Salty or McCann to do the bulk of the catching, with Ross platooning and doing more than your average backup catcher. Ross and Hanigan had injury problems in 2013.

 

We can agree to disagree on this. I am not completely against getting Hanigan. Maybe I should be more clear in saying that if we cannot sign McCann or resign Salty, then look to get a guy like Carlos Ruiz or Ryan Hanigan. They are both realistic options that we have to consider. I just am saying that I would prioritize McCann or Salty as plan A. If McCann is too expensive and we think Salty is asking for too much, then we can go with Hanigan or Ruiz as plan B.

[redsoxfan3]

Btw, Salty has an career OPS of .327 versus righties, Ross has a .321, and Hanigan has a career .349 OPS versus right-handers. I see the OPS and defense as the type of player that the Sox have employed to win this past season.

 

You mean OBP, right? I was referring to 2013 numbers. I do admit that it is an extremely limited sample size for Ross.

[redsoxfan3]

In an appearance on WEEI Radio's Mut & Merloni Show on Wednesday (WEEI.com's Jackson Alexander has a partial transcript), Olney said that if the Red Sox make Brian McCann a competitive offer, McCann would consider taking slightly less money since he's a good fit in their clubhouse atmosphere.

 

That is from MLBTR. There have been contracts projecting McCann in the 5 year and 80M range. I do not know what "slightly less" actually refers to, but maybe around 5 years and 75 million?

[User Name]

Massive amount? You mean Pedroia, who many people wanted sent down again and a trade made for Ronnie Belliard? Remember that? I do. Or Jacoby Ellsbury who wasn't brought up until the summer and still was on the bench for the weak hitting Crisp until Manny got hurt and he got his chance? That guy? Where's the rest of the massive bunch who came up. Wasn't Tek, or Mikey or Lugo or Youk. It wasn't Manny or JD or Beckett or Lester. It wasn't Wakefield or Schilling or our reserve catcher whose name escapes me. And certainly you aren't suggesting that Dice K was "home grown" are you? OK. There was Clay Buchholz brought up late that season but three players doesn't translate into "massive" and both Clay and Jacoby was on the bench until one player got hurt and an emergency pitcher was needed. The 2007 team was my favorite Red Sox club so as you can see I know that team pretty damn well.

 

My main theme was that we need to make room for players who are ready to take over and we didn't do that for the years after 2007.

 

Re: Pedroia. Who the f*** cares what people wanted? We're talking about the FO here. They gave him the chance, he stuck.

 

Re: Ellsbury: You are yet again incorrect. He was brought up in late 2007, yes, because he was not ready, not because he was blocked. He was in a "timeshare" in 2008 because, quite frankly, he wasn't very good.

 

To your point about the 2007 team, that doesn't even make any sense. If a young guy's on the roster being groomed for a full-time spot, saying he was "blocked" is an affront to logic.

 

The 2007 team had contributions from Lester, Buchholz, Ellsbury, Pedroia, Youkilis, Pedroia, Manny Delcarmen, Papelbon, and Kason Gabbard. That's nine homegrown players right there, and that is the topic of discussion here.

 

The reason your assessment is incorrect is because you view bringing a kid up to get a taste of the Majors as "being benched", when in reality, it's common practice.

 

How much you know about the 2007 season doesn't matter in this context. What matters is that when a talented kid comes along, the Sox will find a way to give him a chance to play, even if that means sitting/trading a veteran, in complete contrast to what you and SoxSport are saying.

[User Name]

That is from MLBTR. There have been contracts projecting McCann in the 5 year and 80M range. I do not know what "slightly less" actually refers to, but maybe around 5 years and 75 million?

 

4/60 would be wonderful for the Sox. Anything more than that he can sign elsewhere.

[redsoxfan3]

Re: Pedroia. Who the f*** cares what people wanted? We're talking about the FO here. They gave him the chance, he stuck.

 

Re: Ellsbury: You are yet again incorrect. He was brought up in late 2007, yes, because he was not ready, not because he was blocked. He was in a "timeshare" in 2008 because, quite frankly, he wasn't very good.

 

To your point about the 2007 team, that doesn't even make any sense. If a young guy's on the roster being groomed for a full-time spot, saying he was "blocked" is an affront to logic.

 

The 2007 team had contributions from Lester, Buchholz, Ellsbury, Pedroia, Youkilis, Pedroia, Manny Delcarmen, Papelbon, and Kason Gabbard. That's nine homegrown players right there, and that is the topic of discussion here.

 

The reason your assessment is incorrect is because you view bringing a kid up to get a taste of the Majors as "being benched", when in reality, it's common practice.

 

How much you know about the 2007 season doesn't matter in this context. What matters is that when a talented kid comes along, the Sox will find a way to give him a chance to play, even if that means sitting/trading a veteran, in complete contrast to what you and SoxSport are saying.

 

In 2012, we saw Youk get traded away to make room for Middlebrooks. You are absolutely correct. If a player is talented enough and is producing, there will be playing time for him. Look at Bogaerts this postseason. He stuck with Drew for the entire postseason, but he eventually gave Bogaerts a chance to start over Middlebrooks and never looked back once Xander proved he was going to produce.

[redsoxfan3]

4/60 would be wonderful for the Sox. Anything more than that he can sign elsewhere.

 

What about 4/60 with a team option for a 5th at 15M?

[User Name]

What about 4/60 with a team option for a 5th at 15M?

 

They probably wouldn't go for a "team" option. But if he took it, i'd certainly do it.

[Dojji]

That is from MLBTR. There have been contracts projecting McCann in the 5 year and 80M range. I do not know what "slightly less" actually refers to, but maybe around 5 years and 75 million?

 

 

Call me insane -- you do anyway -- but I actually don' want McCann at any price. Don't get me wrong I think he's a really good catcher, if it was 2011 I'd be all for it, but if you compare his numbers over the last 2 years to Salty, I don't see that many more years and dollars worth of production out of McCann. Not too many catchers start getting better offensively from age 29 onward. And that's without factoring in the opportunity cost of failing to give really good catching prospects like Lavarnway and Vazquez the opportunities they need to find out if they might contribute in their own rights.

 

I could see McCann being great, and I could see him blowing up in our faces, and the balance I'm seeing between those two possibilities tells me to stay the everloving heck away from Brian McCann.

Edited November 9, 2013 by Dojji

[BSN07]

What about 4/60 with a team option for a 5th at 15M?

 

This is what I was thinking for a deal. Give him a vesting option for the 5th year or a club option with a decent sized buy out. If the have to give a 5th year guaranteed I'd be a little worries but might be able to stomach it. He could go to DH or 1B the last couple years of the deal.

 

Looks like McCann has a an crush on Boston fro all these reports from him and his agency. Could be them just using Boston to drive the price tho.

[redsoxfan3]

Boras is comparing Drew's contract negotiations to the contract of Andrus. If we stick with Andrus' guaranteed 4/62 contract, that is still too high for Drew. I think he was comparing it more in terms of years, which is even more outlandish because it is an 8 year contract with an opt-out clause. If Boras can get Drew an 8 year contract, the more power to him. It sure as hell better not be from Boston.

 

Beltran wants a 3 or 4 year contract. We better sign him for 1 or 2 years if we do sign him. Anything more than that, we can let the Yankees make another foolish signing.

[RedSoxNC84]

Offseason brings back the infighting. Yay.

 

MLBTR has not really said anything about Stanton so far, but I'm positive the Sox like him, and I'm sure they have done their diligence on him as well. I'm sure Ben might have even made a phone call, and if he did, he was probably told to f*** himself.

 

MLBTR also says the Sox "really want" Tim Hudson, according to a source "close to the team." They sure seem to love these old pitcher types. However Hudson is an improvement over Dempster, he's pretty durable, and had pretty decent success in the AL, even though that was years ago. I think they may end up packaging Dempster as a throw-in, probably for Hanigan.

 

The Sox may like McCann but there is no way they'll sign him for 5/80, even shorter years with higher AAV will be a no go, with the current roster they only have 32MM to spend under the lux tax. Which is why I think they'll trade for Hanigan, if Salty were to sign somewhere else, which I think he will.

 

I'm not sure if they sign Beltran, but if they did where would he go, LF?

[mvp 78]

Remember when Lavarnway played in game 162 in 2011?

 

They never give prospects a chance!!!

 

Remember when JBJ started against the Yanks in April?

 

They never give prospects a chance!!!

 

Workman getting meaningful innings in the post season?

 

We don't really need to keep going do we?

[marklmw]

Remember when Lavarnway played in game 162 in 2011?

 

They never give prospects a chance!!!

 

Remember when JBJ started against the Yanks in April?

 

They never give prospects a chance!!!

 

Workman getting meaningful innings in the post season?

 

We don't really need to keep going do we?

 

You only know you love her when you let her go.

 

You are right mvp ... unless teams are running wild against the Sox give Lavarnway a shot ... I cannot imagine that he is that much of a defensive liability compared to Salty. Let Ross stay on and catch 2 of 5 games. I am all in on JBJ

[marklmw]

Boras is comparing Drew's contract negotiations to the contract of Andrus. If we stick with Andrus' guaranteed 4/62 contract, that is still too high for Drew. I think he was comparing it more in terms of years, which is even more outlandish because it is an 8 year contract with an opt-out clause. If Boras can get Drew an 8 year contract, the more power to him. It sure as hell better not be from Boston.

 

Beltran wants a 3 or 4 year contract. We better sign him for 1 or 2 years if we do sign him. Anything more than that, we can let the Yankees make another foolish signing.

 

Boras is a bore! 36 / 3 is the tops for Drew. And this is being kind.

[Bellhorn04]

Workman getting meaningful innings in the post season?

 

While Dempster ('the money') was on mopup duty.

[Bellhorn04]

Boras is a bore! 36 / 3 is the tops for Drew. And this is being kind.

 

As much as I liked Drew this year, 36/3 is too much.

[mvp 78]

While Dempster ('the money') was on mopup duty.

 

I just can't really think of any prospect that was blocked for a meaningful amount of time.

[Spitball]

You mean OBP, right? I was referring to 2013 numbers. I do admit that it is an extremely limited sample size for Ross.

 

Yes, I did mean OBP. I would have caught that if I would just proofread my posts.

[Spitball]

This is not meant to keep hounding my point, but this was posted on MLB Trade Rumors this morning by Mark Polishuk.

 

Reds catcher Ryan Hanigan could be a better catching option for 2014 than Jarrod Saltalamacchia even aside from the financial considerations, Fangraphs' Dave Cameron opines (Twitter links). Hanigan actually has a higher career WAR than Saltalamacchia (8.3 to 6.9) and could be available in a trade, while "Salty" could cost a team around $36MM in free agency.

[Dojji]

Boras is comparing Drew's contract negotiations to the contract of Andrus. If we stick with Andrus' guaranteed 4/62 contract, that is still too high for Drew.

 

Why? Do you really think Drew is going to lie down and die between now and age 34? Most players tend to be able to be productive through their early 30's and Drew going into his age 31 season doesn't alarm me from a decline standpoint. The AAV is a little high but that should be something you can talk down at least a little.

 

A 4 year contract for a guy coming off his age 30 season who demonstrated that he is relatively healthy and back to his old playing form -- a form that makes him near-elite for his position -- shouldn't alarm anyone who knows what they're paying for.

[sk7326]

McCann would be nice but very expensive. This is not Theo Epstein's era. Cherington won using a different formula. Hanigan has a .349 OBP versus right-handed pitchers for his career. Hanigan's OPS is better if we throw out last season's injury marred season. He is the type of batter and defensive player the Sox employed this past season to win the World Series. Btw, David Ross has a .321 OPS versus right-handed pitchers in his career and a .325 versus lefties.

 

This isn't Theo Epstein's era ... it's Theo Epstein's lieutenants. Cherington won using the 4th highest payroll in baseball, the team leaders from the 2007 team and the former pitching coach and PawSox managers who he and his boss brought in. 2013 didn't repudiate the Theo Epstein era, it reinforced it.

[sk7326]

Coco held back Ellsbury in 2008? Ellsbury got 609 plate appearances in 2008. Please don't make stuff up.

 

As for Kalish, that is a silly argument and you know it. He kept getting injured, that's the extent of it. He had chances to stay up with the big club at least as a part-time player until he could grab a starting gig.

 

Of course you're conveniently forgetting the massive amount of homegrown players that got to the Red Sox starting in 2007, because like SoxSport, you have an awful case of selective memory.

 

Don't let facts (like the fact that the Red Sox were one of the teams featuring the highest amount of homegrown players in the league every year except in 2011) get in the way of a biased idea.

 

Ellsbury was awful down the stretch in 2008 - that's why he was benched during the biggest part of the season. Crisp had some potential for sure but he has clearly settled into what he is: a good CF to have until you find a better one.

[sk7326]

As much as I liked Drew this year, 36/3 is too much.

 

He will get it. Shortstop replacement level is much worse than it was a decade ago when Nomah was walking the earth. Drew and Peralta are clearly the best SS options, with Drew having a solid edge defensively. You don't think a contender would pay $12M a year for a 4-win shortstop? He'd be worth MORE if he did not have such a checkered injury past.

[Palodios]

Beltran wants a 3 or 4 year contract. We better sign him for 1 or 2 years if we do sign him. Anything more than that, we can let the Yankees make another foolish signing.

 

I just don't understand the infatuation with Beltran. Losing your first round pick for a 37 year old near-DH with an .830 OPS last year seems completely and utterly idiotic. The only way it makes sense is if the Red Sox grab their 3 QO picks and dump their other picks and just go on a spending spree for other QO players.

 

Maybe there are a few guys out there who seem interesting to them, won't cost large amounts of money, but other teams have been hesitating because of the draft pick. If you use a 1st round pick on Choo or McCann, spending some combination of picks 2-4 on Granderson, Morales, Beltran and Kuroda seem less painful. That being said, it seems like too many moving pieces, especially because it would require the Sox to drop a pitcher beforehand.