Baseball Strategy discussion...

[jad]

Often it is not about saving an arm as much as it is about winning a baseball game. I know we all remember 2003 when Grady Little let Pedro Martinez go too long in game 7 of the ALCS.

 

From pitches 85 to 100, the batters had hit .230 off Martinez that year, but from 101 to 120 they had hit .370. Little should have been checking the satistics that game. It wasn't about saving his arm so much as logical checking of the statistics.

 

You're probably right about the BA (at least,I'll take your word for it). But the specific notion that the loss proved Pedro was in too long is just part of RS anecdotal lore, and it cost Little his job. The fact is, if (was it Posada?) had made decent contact, which he did not, he would have hit a lazy FB to center, and Little would be hailed as a genius. Instead, he fisted a ridiculous hit over 2nd, and Little was regarded as the goat.

[sk7326]

A strategy point that came to mind in last night's game:

 

A lot of managers like to arrange their lineup with lefty and right hitters alternating as much as possible. The Yankees lineup last night was a perfect example. The main thing that this accomplishes is that it makes bullpen matchups more difficult for the opposing team. In the 7th inning Thornton came in and faced Gardner-Jeter-Cano. So he got to face two lefties but had a righty planted in the middle. Then Tazawa came in and faced Soriano-Granderson-A-Rod. Again there's the lefty hitter in the middle.

 

I don't know productive this strategy really is, no way of measuring I guess, but I do see the reasoning behind it.

 

Like most lineup things - I imagine long run it doesn't matter. But for the playoffs - we stop caring about that sort of thing. It does help I think to take a platoon advantage off the table. Forces you to use good pitchers. Fortunately the Red Sox bullpen has been fairly solid against either. No classic matchup lefty like Coke or Boone Logan (Breslow is not extreme delivery-wise) but Breslow, Tazawa, Uehara are pretty good against whomever.

[Orange Juiced]

Quick question. My dad (70+ years of age, and clearly remembers the good old days) asked this. He noticed that pitchers often lick their fingers (while on the mound no less, though not on the rubber) and then take the ball to pitch. He asked why this is legal. The spitball (applying saliva to the ball) has been outlawed for a long time, but spitballs never were about actually "spitting" on the ball, but rather applying saliva or some other substance to the ball.

 

Why can a pitcher lick his fingers (or do what Buchholz does..apply a combination of sweat and rosin) before pitching the ball if a spitball is illegal?

[a700hitter]

A strategy point that came to mind in last night's game:

 

A lot of managers like to arrange their lineup with lefty and right hitters alternating as much as possible. The Yankees lineup last night was a perfect example. The main thing that this accomplishes is that it makes bullpen matchups more difficult for the opposing team. In the 7th inning Thornton came in and faced Gardner-Jeter-Cano. So he got to face two lefties but had a righty planted in the middle. Then Tazawa came in and faced Soriano-Granderson-A-Rod. Again there's the lefty hitter in the middle.

 

I don't know productive this strategy really is, no way of measuring I guess, but I do see the reasoning behind it.

Alternating Lefty-Righty in the middle of your lineup is okAy if the hitters are on par with each other. I don't believe in sticking an inferior. Hitter in between two superior hitters to achieve lefty-righty. If the Red Sox had kept AGon, he and Ortiz would have been the 3 and 4 hitters. No right should have been in between them. Batting the consecutively gave you your strongest lineup.

[jung]

Quick question. My dad (70+ years of age, and clearly remembers the good old days) asked this. He noticed that pitchers often lick their fingers (while on the mound no less, though not on the rubber) and then take the ball to pitch. He asked why this is legal. The spitball (applying saliva to the ball) has been outlawed for a long time, but spitballs never were about actually "spitting" on the ball, but rather applying saliva or some other substance to the ball.

 

Why can a pitcher lick his fingers (or do what Buchholz does..apply a combination of sweat and rosin) before pitching the ball if a spitball is illegal?

 

Because they wipe before they throw. Buch wipes on the back of his pant leg just around the pocket which is why you eventually see a stain on his pants at that spot.

[Orange Juiced]

Because they wipe before they throw. Buch wipes on the back of his pant leg just around the pocket which is why you eventually see a stain on his pants at that spot.

 

Ok. I don't see them wipe their hands off. I just see on TV them licking their fingers and then step on the rubber and away they go. But obviously the camera only focuses on them from the chest up.

 

Thanks for the answer. Simple enough.

[Behindenemylines]

Alternating Lefty-Righty in the middle of your lineup is okAy if the hitters are on par with each other. I don't believe in sticking an inferior. Hitter in between two superior hitters to achieve lefty-righty. If the Red Sox had kept AGon, he and Ortiz would have been the 3 and 4 hitters. No right should have been in between them. Batting the consecutively gave you your strongest lineup.

 

I agree. An when the opposing team has a really tough lefty pitching those are days that you usually rest one of the two.

[Bellhorn04]

As far as pitch counts are concerned, it seems to me that a par score for a starter would be 15 pitches. Anything less than that and you're doing very well.

[Behindenemylines]

Does anyone else think that Farrell strategy of leaving Peavy in one inning too many on Thursday night was his lack of faith in anyone not named Breslow or Uehara? To start a pitcher in the 7th who was already at 105 - 106 pitches I got to believe that's what happened. They are going to have to baby Uehara from here on out. If the Sox were to lose him I think any chance of playoff success would go with him.

[Thunder]

Does anyone else think that Farrell strategy of leaving Peavy in one inning too many on Thursday night was his lack of faith in anyone not named Breslow or Uehara? To start a pitcher in the 7th who was already at 105 - 106 pitches I got to believe that's what happened. They are going to have to baby Uehara from here on out. If the Sox were to lose him I think any chance of playoff success would go with him.

 

No way. Every manager, especially those whose strength is pitching, is always trusting their starter before going to the pen. Farrell knows how good Breslow and Uehara have been, but he doesn't want to waste the guys in the pen if he doesn't have to. Koji was overworked, so he was unavailable today. Every manager does this.

[Bellhorn04]

Does anyone else think that Farrell strategy of leaving Peavy in one inning too many on Thursday night was his lack of faith in anyone not named Breslow or Uehara? To start a pitcher in the 7th who was already at 105 - 106 pitches I got to believe that's what happened.

 

I think sending Peavy back out was not that big of a deal. I think we tend to amplify things when we play the Yankees.

 

-Peavy had retired 8 of the previous 9 batters.

-He had pitched a scoreless 6th with 2 K's, striking out Overbay to end it.

-Peavy had reached 117 pitches 4 times already in 2013.

 

Most importantly, I think the intention was for him to face only 2 batters, who happened to be the 8 and 9 hitters, before bringing in Thornton.

 

Needless to say when things go sideways like they did it makes everybody question it.

[jung]

Part of the problem with nailing Farrell for how he has pushed starting pitching this year simply overvalues a very weak part of the Sox team and what appears to be a particularly weak link on most all of the prominent AL teams, that being relief. Farrell is not my favorite in game manager by a long shot but I think he is forced to push the starters cause he has no reliable options if the starters can't get past the 5th or into the 6th inning. It simply takes too long to get to the guys or the guy at the back end. That is exactly how the Sox lost three out of four series soon after the ASB. The starters went into a bit of a funk and the Sox just could not get to the back end of the pen fast enough. I don't want to blame injury cause everybody has to deal with injury. It does not matter what created the weak link. I am not even sure I would argue that injury really had much of anything to do with it anyway.

 

Workman emerged as a guy that could be of service there but just as he has emerged Taz has faded and Farrell is now forced to move Workman closer to the end of the game to fill the whole Taz will likely create. As it is, Workman is virtually the only choice Farrell has had for any period of time that matters.

[sk7326]

Most teams are awful in the 5th and 6th ... look at the garbage the Yankees wheeled out. Your best bet is always get the starters to the 7th - see what happens. Tazawa had a rough Thursday night in New York, but his splits do not really support any sky is falling scenario. He has had problems with leaving balls high in the zone all season - but has largely been very effective. Workman uncorked the wild pitch yesterday but he has shown that he can be relatively useful in the bullpen.

 

All of this is a million miles from really what has changed since the break - the offense. The Sox pitching has been pretty consistent. 3rd in FIP in August, 4th in July. The offense in July dipped to 5th in wOBA, and up to 2nd if August (and obviously shattering the scale in September). Napoli has climbed out of his slump and "above average third baseman" Will Middlebrooks has had an inordinately huge impact on the offense since his return, since the guys he was replacing were so useless.

[Navafan29]

Arod just did something funny. With a runner on second and a great on-target throw coming home on a sac fly attempt, Arod cuts the ball off at the last moment and the run scores.

[Orange Juiced]

Arod just did something funny. With a runner on second and a great on-target throw coming home on a sac fly attempt, Arod cuts the ball off at the last moment and the run scores.

 

Remember when Manny cut off Johnny Damon's throw from left-center field?

 

That was awesome.