2013 Spring Training

[a700hitter]

If this kid starts in the bigs, then when he starts to get expensive, the fact that he's more expensive than he has to be when they could have just sat him for 12 games will be counted as one of "Cherries' blunders" in the calculus of hindsight that takes place in every single season after this one.

 

I don't even have to call it a prediction or put any money behind it. Every single person on this board knows it for a verified fact.

So, you are on record that you think this is a blunder?

 

I think it is somewhat foolish, because this team doesn't have a chance in 2013. Why screw up a year of control for nothing. However, if the Sox finish last again in 2013, Cherries will be gone long before 2019.

[Dojji]

I'm on record that starting next year YOU will think it's a blunder. Especially if we don't get anywhere in particular this year.

 

And I won't have to wait for 2019. Once we do nothing this year and squander a year of control. we'll be hearing about it from then on. It'll just start building into a crescendo in 2019.

[a700hitter]

I'm on record that starting next year YOU will think it's a blunder. Especially if we don't get anywhere in particular this year.

 

And I won't have to wait for 2019. Once we do nothing this year and squander a year of control. we'll be hearing about it from then on. It'll just start building into a crescendo in 2019.

So, you can't go on record for yourself, but you can go on record for what I will think in a year. Such an arrogant twit, especially since I am on record saying not to burn a year of eligibility when this team is going nowhere. Isn't that what you are advocating... that they don't burn a year of control?

[jung]

Its idiotic. You may have noticed that our famous or infamous press corp is lining up in the "must have JBJ up here on opening day" camp. Why do you think that is? They absolutely love the idea of a story that they can MILK for four years.

 

Some people think our press corp is overly aggressive, is cut throat, what have you. I have not ever really bought into that. They are however almost to a man, unscrupulous and will trade the good of the team for a story they can milk at the drop of a hat.

[MANNYHOF24]

I think our pitching staff is showing us that we can contend in 2013. I say bring JBJ up and lets go for it.

[seabeachfred]

Missing out on a year before eligibility for only 20 games does seem shortsighted but I think if there was ever a time to do it, it's this team right now.

 

There's an open spot on the roster and hes super hot going into the season. Even if when he slows off, which he obviously will at some point, and David gets back you could just send him down for a while to save that eligibility.

I think there is little doubt the best possible Sox lineup for April 1 is above, anything else I think is a disapointment. After the past few seasons I want to see a little urgency, and a real change of culture, rather than more "promising" commercial ads.

 

That last sentence of yours Big Guy speaks volumes to what many of us here and elsewhere have said. It seems to many that the past few seasons have been mainly about TV ratings, sexy ballplayers, sellout streaks and other propaganda with less emphasis to te nuts and bolts of winning. It is as if, as one poster here put it some time ago, that the front office had told the fans we gave two WS Titles, now let us alone to make money and emphasize promotions. With ticket sales down and some real anger showing amongst the fan base, a think more than a little urgency is needed. It is of paramount importance that whether we make the playoffs or not, that there is a marked improvement of the team's play this season.

[jung]

And I take all is lost if JBJ comes up at least 12 games into the season instead of April 1...staggering!

 

Actually, I think we are going to see plenty of JBJ this season...why....because the word Ellsbury and the phrase, 162 games should never ever appear in the same sentence. If you want to call that good fortune,....I guess. However at least it would put JBJ at the position he should play, CF.

 

People are also bringing up JBJ's performance against Cliff Lee as a factor cause he did well. Everybody and his brother hit Cliff Lee yesterday. In fact, everybody and his brother has hit Cliff Lee all spring so far.

[BSN07]

There is another aspect to gambling with JBJ in the opening day lineup to consider. Suppose JBJ is in the opening day lineup and the Sox still stumble out of the gate. What does the Sox fan have to look forward to then? What happens to ticket sales then?

 

Another aspect of this discussion that is almost comical is that once here he will be sent down. It ain't happening folks. Once he is here he is here and that last year of control will be lost regardless of how little it will take to pick it up. If the Sox don't have the stones to deal with this now when all he has to show us is a hot ST at the plate, think about that, a hot ST, anybody that thinks the Sox will have the stones to deal with this at some later date has got "stones" if not "rocks" in his head.

 

So just because they bring him up they should keep him there no matter of he's struggling and or an everyday spot might being available just because? Dude that's what options are for. So guys can go back down and work on things that may have been exposed at the ML level.

 

JBJ will stick if he's producing. If he struggles and is not helping the ML club he will be sent down. Pretty cut and dry. To waste his options and keep him on the roster if he's not producing is retarded.

[jung]

I am not saying that is what they should do. I am already on record as saying they should not have him on the opening day roster to begin with. We are talking about the first 9 games of the season for crying out load.

 

If they do that there is no pressure on them to do anything. They retain all the flexibility in the world to do whatever they want, whenever they want.

 

If they do not get this out of the way now, if they don't have the stones to get this out of the way now, I believe they will not have the stones to send him down later regardless of what he is doing. It will be, they are giving up on him too early....they are going to destroy the kid's confidence. We are already using convoluted logic to justify having him here for the first 9 games of the season. You don't think we will continue the convoluted logic trend later on?

 

Also as I have already said, if this team does not have the nuts to win meaningful games in September when the focus is sharper and the contending teams are at their peak of intensity, what you did in those first 9 games will fade to insignificance. As I have stated before here, that is not at all the same thing as saying a lost game in April is less important than a lost game in September.

[SoxSport]

Spring training is going great for the Red Sox. How can that be--with Ortiz and Drew down?

Maybe a blessing in disguise.

 

Bradley and Iggy are shining right now. All of a sudden, there is a vision of a great DEFENSIVE team--with Iggy at SS and Vic-Ells-Bradley in the OF. Who would have thought? Not pre-season, when the strategy seemed mainly to shore up the RHd hitting for Fenway and sign somebody who could replace Ells in CF if he got dealt.

 

But that's changed now with the emergence of Bradley, injuries, and Iggy's strong spring. It looks like the strong suit now may be the defense--which can be a big help to the pitching. And pitching will make or break this team.

 

And oh yeah, Gomes. He gets to play his best defensive position--DH.

[jung]

JBJ has already proven not to be a "strong" LFer. He is in fact not a LFer. Again I am inclined not to think this final injury element is a blessing but may turn out to at least resolve this discussion. I think Ells is going to resolve this discussion for everybody.....maybe not on April 1 though.

[SoxSport]

And I take all is lost if JBJ comes up at least 12 games into the season instead of April 1...staggering!

 

Actually, I think we are going to see plenty of JBJ this season...why....because the word Ellsbury and the phrase, 162 games should never ever appear in the same sentence. If you want to call that good fortune,....I guess. However at least it would put JBJ at the position he should play, CF.

 

People are also bringing up JBJ's performance against Cliff Lee as a factor cause he did well. Everybody and his brother hit Cliff Lee yesterday. In fact, everybody and his brother has hit Cliff Lee all spring so far.

 

great at bat. The kid went with the pitch.

 

Bailey and Ellsbury are the type of guys who constantly have to look up to make sure a piano isn't falling on their heads.

[SoxSport]

Its idiotic. You may have noticed that our famous or infamous press corp is lining up in the "must have JBJ up here on opening day" camp. Why do you think that is? They absolutely love the idea of a story that they can MILK for four years.

 

Some people think our press corp is overly aggressive, is cut throat, what have you. I have not ever really bought into that. They are however almost to a man, unscrupulous and will trade the good of the team for a story they can milk at the drop of a hat.

 

Hey, it IS a great story. They didn't even have to make it up.

[jung]

Hey, it IS a great story. They didn't even have to make it up.

 

But that won't be the story we will be reading if they don't get this "thing" out of the way now, especially if the JBJ does start looking like a budding superstar as opposed to just a star. We will be reading over and over again how the dead between the ears FO traded away a full year of control for really what amounts to 9 games in April of 2013.....4 of them probably against LH pitchers for that matter looking at the schedule.

[Dojji]

JBJ has already proven not to be a "strong" LFer. He is in fact not a LFer. Again I am inclined not to think this final injury element is a blessing but may turn out to at least resolve this discussion. I think Ells is going to resolve this discussion for everybody.....maybe not on April 1 though.

 

I have no doubt that Bradley can learn to get by in left for however long it takes to move Ellsbury on.

 

We're so set in CF (Bradley and Victorino can both play well there) that if Ellsbury isn't sharp he can be sat. And then Bradley moves to CF where he probably belongs. And perhaps Nava (who really improved in left last year) can work his way into the platoon and our outfield D will at least be no worse than it was in 07.

[jung]

Could be but people are talking about JBJ in left like he immediately improves the entire outfield and I just don't see it. It is not easy to overcome the requirements for LF by substituting physical prowess for a lack of judgement. CF and RF are the outfield positions where physical prowess elements sit at the top of the pyramid. The two mistakes he has made out there so far have been errors in judgement....what a surprise.

 

So, do we really want to see JBJ, all 180 lbs of him soaking wet crashing into Ells or WMB or the wall out there. Those kinds of judgements are not even a large sampling of the judgement calls a LF must make that a CF or RF does not have to make. For example, the LFer is basically the only outfielder that can err and really throw behind the runner. Even if a RF throws to the wrong base, he has no choice but to throw it back to the infield unless he decides to turn his body left and throw the ball into the RF grandstands. A RFer can't throw it that far wrong no matter what he does and the CF would have to throw to 1st to be really wrong. Not so for a LFer. Ballpark configurations allow a RF to let the ball careen around the wall. He can judge if he should wait for the ball to come to him. A LFer must judge if the ball is going to hit up against some odd angle and shoot out into mid-outfield or if it will go all the way to the wall and stick there in what will often be a hard corner. The ball is not careening anywhere in LF in any ML ballpark. Then in Fenway you have the Monster itself.Then also the possibility of three fielders converging is greater in LF than it is in either CF or RF.

 

So I just don't buy the argument that the outfield is immediately upgraded cause JBJ is in LF. I can believe he can hold his own for a limited period of time at an elevated chance of injury. So far his judgements in LF even for the limited exposure he has had so far in ST has been what I would call "shaky".

[seabeachfred]

Spring training is going great for the Red Sox. How can that be--with Ortiz and Drew down?

Maybe a blessing in disguise.

 

Bradley and Iggy are shining right now. All of a sudden, there is a vision of a great DEFENSIVE team--with Iggy at SS and Vic-Ells-Bradley in the OF. Who would have thought? Not pre-season, when the strategy seemed mainly to shore up the RHd hitting for Fenway and sign somebody who could replace Ells in CF if he got dealt.

 

But that's changed now with the emergence of Bradley, injuries, and Iggy's strong spring. It looks like the strong suit now may be the defense--which can be a big help to the pitching. And pitching will make or break this team.

 

And oh yeah, Gomes. He gets to play his best defensive position--DH.

 

Gomes at DH ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!! Did you see try and catch that ball in left f ield this morning. Looked absolutely pathetic out there. Sure the wind was blowing but it is blowing for all the outfielders but they're holding their own. As for this Paul Godfrey on the mound for us, this guy makes s*** look good. Absolutely a rotten pitcher---no speed, short arms the ball, and the ball is as flat as a pancake. Don't tell me he is anything but cannon fodder. If he is a legit pitching prospect we are in dire straits. I repeat, this guy is totally s*****.

[Palodios]

I want to pose a general question out there to the posters on here who believe that the Red Sox will not make the playoffs.

 

How does having an elite defense behind the pitching staff affect your stance on the team? Replacing Gomes and Drew with Bradley and Iggy could be a big boost to the defense, albeit a hit to the offense in places where most of us assumed there would be holes already.

[a700hitter]

I want to pose a general question out there to the posters on here who believe that the Red Sox will not make the playoffs.

 

How does having an elite defense behind the pitching staff affect your stance on the team? Replacing Gomes and Drew with Bradley and Iggy could be a big boost to the defense, albeit a hit to the offense in places where most of us assumed there would be holes already.

It will help, but Lackey puts far too many balls in play for those upgrades to make much of a difference. It will also not defend against 4 -5 walks that Doubs gives up per game and the 5 wlaks per 9 innings by Hanrahan. We gave up the 4th most walks in the league in 2012. The Defense can't do anything about that or the fact that we gave up the 3rd most HRs.

[NZSox]

Some solid batting avgs thru the Sox order in ST.

 

How damn impressive has WMB been?! 3 hits today and a .362 avg for spring.

[jacksonianmarch]

I think anyone down on the sox has said the same thing. Buch and Lester have to pitch to their ceilings.

[BSN07]

Bradley is having a great Spring. The guys covering the game certainly have a man crush with all the "Legend of Jackie" every time the camera was on him lol You would think they have never seen anyone hit .400 in ST

[Thunder]

Just announced that Xander, Drew Sutton, and one other will go to the minor league camps.

[BSN07]

Bogaerts needs time in the minors. His plate discipline leaves something to be desired currently.

[Thunder]

Bogaerts needs time in the minors. His plate discipline leaves something to be desired currently.

 

He was pretty impressive in the WBC though.

[BSN07]

He was pretty impressive in the WBC though.

 

Against inferior pitching for the most part. I can't wait for the kid to get to Boston. But it's obvious his offensive game still needs development.

[Thunder]

Against inferior pitching for the most part. I can't wait for the kid to get to Boston. But it's obvious his offensive game still needs development.

 

Yeah I agree. He should be called up around June, but for sure by September.

[seabeachfred]

Bradley is having a great Spring. The guys covering the game certainly have a man crush with all the "Legend of Jackie" every time the camera was on him lol You would think they have never seen anyone hit .400 in ST

 

As an old native New Yorker who spent the first 14 years of his life in Queens before my family moved to California so long ago, I have a unique take on the so-called "Legend of Jackie". In April a movie will be making the rounds called "42", the story of another Jackie who broke into the Major Leagues. That was Jackie Robinson and I was a big fan of his growing up in Queens as a diehard Brooklyn fan. I kind of like the idea that when this movie comes out we have a Jackie of our own trying to break in.

 

There is an irony here for anyone who wants to take a good look. Jackie Jr. is an African-American, a helluva prospect and a coming star for the Red Sox at a time when it seems most AA athletes are funneling their way into football and basketball. I would love nothing better than to have another African-American named Jackie to root my lungs out for with my new team that I adopted in 2000. So let's give Jackie Bradley the chance and I will bet dollars to donuts to anyone who wants to wager me that this guy is going to be one helluva ballplayer for us for a long time.

[Palodios]

Interesting idea Fred. I bet you a dollar that if Bradley lights up April, that we'll hear the comparison from some of the national writers. It seems like every year someone is commenting about not enough AA baseball players.

[Station 13]

Bradley could be up as earliest as April 16th for them to get an extra control year, which is the 2nd game after the Home Opener. They'll likely to fall toward this in promoting Bradley. So hold your horses for 12 SERVICE days. You'd get Bradley for up to 153 games for 2013 and the Sox get their additional year of control.