2013 Spring Training

[jacksonianmarch]

He's 2 years removed from that surgery. I don't think it's that unreasonable to expect at least average defense and a decent amount of pop out of Drew last year.

 

He was slightly above average prior to the injury. Last yr, he was grossly below average. This isnt a 20 yr old returning from this injury. This guy is 30, so his lateral quickness is already at it's peak and he is only going to go down from here. I highly doubt he is a plus defender at SS ever again

[BSN07]

He was slightly above average prior to the injury. Last yr, he was grossly below average. This isnt a 20 yr old returning from this injury. This guy is 30, so his lateral quickness is already at it's peak and he is only going to go down from here. I highly doubt he is a plus defender at SS ever again

 

Dojji we should go with Jacko on this one. If there is any expert on regressing defensive SS, it's a Yankees fan

 

Sorry Jacko I couldn't resist

[seabeachfred]

I think he's just saying they have to hold onto Aceves until Webster is ready or Morales is healthy. Not sure he was upset about Webster being sent to AAA.

 

Thanks mvp; you read me well. Those were my points. We may have to hold onto Aceves until Webster is ready and I think a little time down at Pawtucket will do wonders for him. I think in this case this prospect can use a little more experience before he is brought up for good. And, who knows? Maybe Farrell will be able to handle Aceves. Either that or he may be gone, but the best scenario he keeps his nose clean until Webster is ready and, hopefully, Morales is ready to return.

[jung]

Aceves is not off to a good start as far as keeping his nose clean is concerned. I think Farrell will try to rein him in but will not be tolerant of what he has seen so far.

 

Pulling Ace from the last game was the right thing to do for a number of reasons, not the least of which was Farrell protecting his own players. Hopefully Ace gets the message that he needs to focus on pitching, not all this other ********. If all this other ******** helped him succeed you could almost tolerate it even though it puts a strain on the rest of the team. However it does not help him succeed.

 

Frankly, I don' think it will work out. Zebra's don't change stripes. It is likely asking too much of Farrell to expect him to force Aceves to change. Sure a guy can make the staff take less time between pitches. Aceves is short a sandwich or two of a full picnic and has already proven that he will let his frustrations on the mound get the better of him. That is a problem on a whole different level.

[redsoxbeatz]

Jon Lester looks good in green. Pitches even better in green. Wo0o0!!

[SoxSport]

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/red-sox/post/_/id/25613/morning-report-roster-projections?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

 

Edes projects an opening day roster with Bradley in LF, Iggy at SS and Gomes DH. Drew and Ortiz DL'ed.

[seabeachfred]

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/red-sox/post/_/id/25613/morning-report-roster-projections?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

 

Edes projects an opening day roster with Bradley in LF, Iggy at SS and Gomes DH. Drew and Ortiz DL'ed.

 

Those concussions are very tricky and dangerous and we could see Steven Drew out for a a couple of months unless he and the team get lucky and he has a quick recovery. I hope that happens. As for Papi there was a story that he has even more pain when he tried to run yesterday. I think this is going to be a slow diminution of his career because his injury occurred in July and he hasn't improved at all. In fact he seems to be getting worse. Te rest of the team is going to have to step up and the pitching is really going to have to be good since we most likely will not hit with the force we would have with Ortiz and Drew in the lineup. Sorry to say it but I think as soon as Iglesias starts facing ML pitching on a regular basis we'll be looking for a good pinch hitter in close games after the seventh inning.

[SoxSport]

Those concussions are very tricky and dangerous and we could see Steven Drew out for a a couple of months unless he and the team get lucky and he has a quick recovery. I hope that happens. As for Papi there was a story that he has even more pain when he tried to run yesterday. I think this is going to be a slow diminution of his career because his injury occurred in July and he hasn't improved at all. In fact he seems to be getting worse. Te rest of the team is going to have to step up and the pitching is really going to have to be good since we most likely will not hit with the force we would have with Ortiz and Drew in the lineup. Sorry to say it but I think as soon as Iglesias starts facing ML pitching on a regular basis we'll be looking for a good pinch hitter in close games after the seventh inning.

 

No lose situation for them with Bradley and Iggy. If they hit some, they might stick. If they don't, they go to AAA. Bradley might go to AAA before 20 games, and stay in AAA for 20 games, to be controlled to 2019. They sure do improve the defense--at the minimum.

 

Somebody tweeted they could have had an outfield of Bradley, Ellsbury and Hamilton for less or same money as they spent for their FAs. But they didn't know Bradley would hit .500 in Florida.

 

With their new found star closer DeLaTorre and the rest, Pawtucket is going to one hell of a team this year.

[Dojji]

Agreed. I see a number of solid prospects supported well by good AAAA types.

 

Pawtucket isn't going to be a bad place for any prospect to develop I think.

[Dojji]

Anyone else kind of hoping that JC Linares gets a chance to win a bench role? As much as I'm on record as a member of the Daniel Nava Defense Team, Linares can do some things Nava really can't. Like back up centerfield. He's not starter material, not in Boston anyway, but since he's older, it's kind of bigs-or-bust over the nest couple years, and I'd like to see if there's enough there that he might be worth a short term flier.

 

IMHO he's shown enough offensive talent in the minors that I think he deserves a chance to see whether he can or can't hit well enough to play on the bench in the majors. Not a bad spring either. I'd like to hope he gets a chance rather than just mouldering away in AAA for the rest of his career.

[seabeachfred]

Anyone else kind of hoping that JC Linares gets a chance to win a bench role? As much as I'm on record as a member of the Daniel Nava Defense Team, Linares can do some things Nava really can't. Like back up centerfield. He's not starter material, not in Boston anyway, but since he's older, it's kind of bigs-or-bust over the nest couple years, and I'd like to see if there's enough there that he might be worth a short term flier.

 

IMHO he's shown enough offensive talent in the minors that I think he deserves a chance to see whether he can or can't hit well enough to play on the bench in the majors. Not a bad spring either. I'd like to hope he gets a chance rather than just mouldering away in AAA for the rest of his career.

 

Something to think about on the part of the front office Doj. We can sure use a decent hitter on the bench and for emergency starting duty what with Ortiz and Drew maybe out for awhile. I'm not sure that Linares is too well regarded by the Red Sox. They kind of dumped him down to the farm pretty rapidly last Spring if memory serves me right. Of course, you shouldn't be surprised I would agree with you on this one knowing how little I hold Sweeney and Nava as contributing ballplayers. I'm not high on the rapidly fading Overbay either while Carp is an enigma to me.

[mvp 78]

Linares is a DH. His defense is poor. He's probably 7th in the OF depth chart. It'd be a nice story, just is unlikely imo.

[mvp 78]

Also, they're talking about bringing JBJ up before 4/12? Color me unsurprised...

[seabeachfred]

Also, they're talking about bringing JBJ up before 4/12? Color me unsurprised...

 

Didn't realize Linares' defense was so suspect but I am looking at anyone who could give us some sock at the plate that might be better than Overbay, Nava and Sweeney. As for Bradley, if they bring him up they have to play him in my opinion. Sitting on the bench does him little good, and what of the seven years instead of six that the front office might be worrying about? Is it better to let him start at Pawtucket and then bring him up in 12 or so days, or do the Red Sox say s*** with this, he is good and we want him and we will worry about the six years when the six years are up? I can't figure the FO's take on this. Personally I would love him in the lineup but I don't write the checks and it isn't me who might have to deal with Boras down the line.

[jung]

That is clearly the issue with JBJ. They have to play him. I really struggle with the idea that he spends a single day on the bench which is why I don't buy the fourth outfielder idea. Yet, he really has not proven that he can hit real ML pitching and there is no way you will convince me that he will not suffer the same fate as the typical rookie. The scouts will scout him. They will find his weaknesses. That information will inform how the pitchers pitch him and he will slump at that point and until he works through it.

 

So, I would not absorb the downstream hit for bringing him up to start the season. That is fiscally irresponsible. Then I would not bring him up at all unless he was going to play every day as that is simply short sighted.

 

Iggy looks like a different story. It looks more and more like Drew will not be ready. As I have stated elsewhere, I hate seeing a guy go down to injury but Iggy has had such lousy luck until now, maybe he is due some good fortune. He has his new swing and it looks like he has this opportunity to impress. This might actually work out to be the best thing that could happen to both the team and the player with regard to Iggy.

 

As for Ortiz, some of us want to dodge this bullet because his issues are not all about the Achilles but in reality, most of them are very likely about the Achilles. He got put on the shelf last year as an aging player. Has not been able to get back on the field and these things have a tendency to simply spiral the wrong way for an aging player. Worse than that, he is a very big guy that is aging. So he is carting 250 lbs over those legs, ankles and heels and that is the slimmed down version. Inactivity produces more issues for them at the worst time in their careers for inactivity to be a factor. Every time he tries to move now, something happens to him.

 

My opinion is that this is yet another decision that the Sox made that had little to do with baseball regardless of the fact the David is such a force or has been such a force at the plate. It was not to me a smart move although at the time, I was absolutely certain that the Sox would sign Ortiz and pretty certain that it would be for two years. I would be tickled pink if David makes it back and proves me wrong. That possibility becomes more remote as each day passes though.

 

Look at how far behind the pitchers the hitters have been so far this Spring. Just yesterday and today, the hitters around the league have shown signs of catching up to the pitchers. So even if David is ready to take swings again on April 1st, you can just about kiss the first month of the season goodbye. Does he even look like he will be swinging the bat on April 1st?

 

As usual, the Sox have nobody to blame but themselves...not the media, not us the fans, nobody but themselves. They put themselves in this box that just about demands that a 37 year old, 250 lb guy with a damaged Achilles find a way into the lineup and produce for a significant part of this season. While the pitching has looked good so far this spring, this still does not impress me as the kind of rotation and pen that will hold down the opposition enough without being able to score some runs. In other words, it is not even trying to flip flop from a team mainly built on offense to a team mainly built on pitching and defense. However, given all the other factors, it does look like a team that without Ortiz will have lost too much of one without having enough of the other two to make up for it.

[mvp 78]

Jung, they can bring him up on April 1. If he hits a wall, option him back to Pawtucket for 20 days (in effect, this is the same as holding him down for a few weeks and doesn't have a "downstream hit"). If he shows he's ready, even better. If he's worthy of a big contract in 2018, good for him. Why worry about that now?

[redsoxbeatz]

JBJ is tearing it up.

 

Majority of talksox think he will ultimately be sent back to AAA? What if he's like Bryce Harper and just tears it up in the majors?

[jung]

I would suggest that it will be very difficult to send JBJ back down regardless of what happens in the first few weeks of the season. That problem is compounded by the fact that he MUST play everyday wherever he is going to be. That is further complicated by having to face the rigors of a full ML season. He still at least to me looks like he could use a year of adding some bulk as well as a year of seasoning although extra bulk might be the least concerning of the issues the Sox face with JBJ. JBJ has never really faced true MLB pitching, yet we are freely discussing bouncing him around between Pawtucket and Fenway.

 

The guys that I have heard that I respect on the topic have said that this is not the kind of player that suggests bouncing him around. His future production is too valuable and his future contracts likely very large. This is the kind of player that you bring up when you are completely committed to keeping him on your roster baring injury. This is NOT Nava nor even of a feather of Nava.

 

We chide the organization when it treats players like rag dolls that they can just bump here and bump there without regard for the consequences and when we have an opportunity that just screams at us to not do that again....what do we want to do??? We want to do that again and for what?

 

What are we afraid of or what do we think we will get? Is the team going to go 0-20 and will adding JBJ turn 0-20 to 20-0?

 

I for one have never believed that a team's fate is determined in the first month of the season. That is not to say that a lost game in April is somehow better than a lost game in September. However that is to say that once you get into the latter part of the season, with contending teams playing each other and the focus honed to a very sharp level, the teams that have the goods float to the top. Want proof? Could the 2011 Sox win one lousy stinking ballgame against contending teams when they had to in 2011? Answer ....No. That is why I choose to ignore all the ******** that surrounds the 2011 Sox season. Having to win one lousy stinking ballgame for something like two weeks at the end of 2011, they simply could not do it.

 

The 2013 Sox simply do not look to me like the kind of team that will float to the top. Too many changes in one year including another new group of coaches and Manager. Too much of a patchwork team with too many major question marks in the rotation that will still be question marks regardless of what happens in the Spring.

 

The Ortiz situation to me is just the straw that breaks the camel's back. IMO, they do not have enough power but do not have enough pitching and defense to make up for it...not in the DH, AL.

 

Personally, I am surprised that the discussion has honed in on JBJ up because Ortiz is out. It does not matter. JBJ does not replace Ortiz. Iggy might replace Drew. But JBJ does not replace Ortiz.

[Dojji]

Never faced big league pitching? He's barely faced pitching at the AA level or better. I doubt if you combine this spring with last season you'd still get a number greater than 150AB.

 

People are getting WAY premature here.

 

EDIT: Alright, it's not as bad as that, he had about 250 PA in AA last year, but his numbers took a huge dip from his A ball rates and that's the sum total of his experience above A ball. Not as bad as I thought, but still jumping the gun.

[BSN07]

JBJ is tearing it up.

 

Majority of talksox think he will ultimately be sent back to AAA? What if he's like Bryce Harper and just tears it up in the majors?

 

Then he will probably be sent to AAA for 3 weeks just like Harper was after tearing it up in ST.

[BSN07]

Never faced big league pitching? He's barely faced pitching at the AA level or better. I doubt if you combine this spring with last season you'd still get a number greater than 150AB.

 

People are getting WAY premature here.

 

EDIT: Alright, it's not as bad as that, he had about 250 PA in AA last year, but his numbers took a huge dip from his A ball rates and that's the sum total of his experience above A ball. Not as bad as I thought, but still jumping the gun.

 

He's the shiny new toy this spring. People are excited and rightfully so. But that excitement is making some forget those facts Dojji. Could he jump from AA to the bigs and have an impact? Sure. But I think that case would be more of an exception rather then the rule.

 

One 0-15 slump and everyone will come back to Earth

[mvp 78]

At least give him the chance before writing him off.

 

There's no harm in doing so.

 

emoticons

[SoxSport]

Then he will probably be sent to AAA for 3 weeks just like Harper was after tearing it up in ST.

 

As I understand it, they can keep him up to the first 20 games, then send him to AAA for 20 games, then bring him back--for 2019 control. Seems reasonable. Ortiz DL'd makes this likely. Plus Bradley makes sense in LF opening series in Yankee stadium.

 

Ortiz will come to realize he will have to play with a little foot pain this year to play at all. And with an orthotic. Takes forever to go away.

[SoxSport]

The other thing about Bradley is he's played 4 years in college, so he would be much farther ahead than a high school kid with a partial year in AA. You have to wonder how they could treat college and high school grads in the same light regarding minor league experience. The college guys should be farther ahead--more mature, and require less minor league experience--if they are talented enough.

[Palodios]

With Drew and Ortiz out opening day, my perspective on this has changed. It makes a good deal of sense to see what he can do in the majors, then send him back down for three weeks at some point to hold onto 2019.

 

Gomes->DH, Bradley->LF

When Ortiz returns, Gomes-> LF, Bradley->AAA. If Ortiz misses the season, maybe use Lavarnway once he gets hot in AAA, or get creative.

[Bellhorn04]

With Drew and Ortiz out opening day, my perspective on this has changed. It makes a good deal of sense to see what he can do in the minors, then send him back down for three weeks at some point to hold onto 2019.

 

I trust you mean 'see what he can do in the majors'.

[BSN07]

With Drew and Ortiz out opening day, my perspective on this has changed. It makes a good deal of sense to see what he can do in the minors, then send him back down for three weeks at some point to hold onto 2019.

 

Gomes->DH, Bradley->LF

When Ortiz returns, Gomes-> LF, Bradley->AAA. If Ortiz misses the season, maybe use Lavarnway once he gets hot in AAA, or get creative.

 

My view has shifted as well with the DL list crowded and the info about the whole bring him up send him down for 20 days to save control on him until 2019. I'm much more open to the idea then say even a week ago.

[Palodios]

I trust you mean 'see what he can do in the majors'.

 

Indeed you are right. Thank you!

[seabeachfred]

That is clearly the issue with JBJ. They have to play him. I really struggle with the idea that he spends a single day on the bench which is why I don't buy the fourth outfielder idea. Yet, he really has not proven that he can hit real ML pitching and there is no way you will convince me that he will not suffer the same fate as the typical rookie. The scouts will scout him. They will find his weaknesses. That information will inform how the pitchers pitch him and he will slump at that point and until he works through it.

 

So, I would not absorb the downstream hit for bringing him up to start the season. That is fiscally irresponsible. Then I would not bring him up at all unless he was going to play every day as that is simply short sighted.

 

Iggy looks like a different story. It looks more and more like Drew will not be ready. As I have stated elsewhere, I hate seeing a guy go down to injury but Iggy has had such lousy luck until now, maybe he is due some good fortune. He has his new swing and it looks like he has this opportunity to impress. This might actually work out to be the best thing that could happen to both the team and the player with regard to Iggy.

 

As for Ortiz, some of us want to dodge this bullet because his issues are not all about the Achilles but in reality, most of them are very likely about the Achilles. He got put on the shelf last year as an aging player. Has not been able to get back on the field and these things have a tendency to simply spiral the wrong way for an aging player. Worse than that, he is a very big guy that is aging. So he is carting 250 lbs over those legs, ankles and heels and that is the slimmed down version. Inactivity produces more issues for them at the worst time in their careers for inactivity to be a factor. Every time he tries to move now, something happens to him.

 

My opinion is that this is yet another decision that the Sox made that had little to do with baseball regardless of the fact the David is such a force or has been such a force at the plate. It was not to me a smart move although at the time, I was absolutely certain that the Sox would sign Ortiz and pretty certain that it would be for two years. I would be tickled pink if David makes it back and proves me wrong. That possibility becomes more remote as each day passes though.

 

Look at how far behind the pitchers the hitters have been so far this Spring. Just yesterday and today, the hitters around the league have shown signs of catching up to the pitchers. So even if David is ready to take swings again on April 1st, you can just about kiss the first month of the season goodbye. Does he even look like he will be swinging the bat on April 1st?

 

As usual, the Sox have nobody to blame but themselves...not the media, not us the fans, nobody but themselves. They put themselves in this box that just about demands that a 37 year old, 250 lb guy with a damaged Achilles find a way into the lineup and produce for a significant part of this season. While the pitching has looked good so far this spring, this still does not impress me as the kind of rotation and pen that will hold down the opposition enough without being able to score some runs. In other words, it is not even trying to flip flop from a team mainly built on offense to a team mainly built on pitching and defense. However, given all the other factors, it does look like a team that without Ortiz will have lost too much of one without having enough of the other two to make up for it.

 

Jung, if you remember just after the train wreck of 2012 there was some strong differences of opinion as to whether the Red Sox should resign Ortiz at all since he was big, heavy and had leg problems. Those who wanted him signed followed the front office as they believed he had some stuff left in his tank and would most likely be ready in ST. Then there were those of us who said no way, do not sign him and if you do, one year only with a club option. This is NOT an I told you so missive, but I wonder if there were differences of opinion in the FO about whether to resign him or not. Frankly, I think Lucchino was thinkin of the GATE and Henry of TV ratings, and for that reason believed Papi would bring the people into Fenway while the TV rating would go through the roof.

In retrospect we might got stuck with a turkey of a signing unless David mends in a hurry and can get back into the lineup by May 1.

[SCM33]

Never faced big league pitching? He's barely faced pitching at the AA level or better. I doubt if you combine this spring with last season you'd still get a number greater than 150AB.

 

People are getting WAY premature here.

 

EDIT: Alright, it's not as bad as that, he had about 250 PA in AA last year, but his numbers took a huge dip from his A ball rates and that's the sum total of his experience above A ball. Not as bad as I thought, but still jumping the gun.

 

You jump the gun with s*** players like Che-Hsuan Lin, Daniel Nava and JC Linares. A real prospect comes along you tell everyone else they are being premature?