Rotation

[Lucienbel]

They don't need aces. Nobody really does. You need guys who are durable who can pitch to an ERA at or slightly below 4. A guy like Dempster fits the bill. A guy like Lohse is so up and down that he'd be a bigger gamble. Sanchez is a lock if healthy. You need 2, IMO, to turn it around. You already have guys with promise in Buchholz and Lester. You can fill in 2 more holes with reliable guys in the FA arena and give Doubront and Lackey an open audition for the 5 spot in ST

 

I like this idea of Doubront/Lackey competing for a spot and all, but for some reason I think Lackey gets that spot even if he doesn't pitch better. Assuming nothing incredibly strange happens with Lackey, I can't imagine them paying him that much to come out of the bull pen or something (granted I'm sure a lot of us would love that).

[BSN07]

Is Lackey even ready to pitch at the beginning of the season?

[User Name]

They don't need aces. Nobody really does. You need guys who are durable who can pitch to an ERA at or slightly below 4. A guy like Dempster fits the bill. A guy like Lohse is so up and down that he'd be a bigger gamble. Sanchez is a lock if healthy. You need 2, IMO, to turn it around. You already have guys with promise in Buchholz and Lester. You can fill in 2 more holes with reliable guys in the FA arena and give Doubront and Lackey an open audition for the 5 spot in ST

 

I highly disagree with this. Not only is he 35, but he's coming off two very inconsistent years. In 2011, he pitched a lot of innings but was not very effective. Last year, he was effective but didn't pitch a lot of innings and looked over matched with the Rangers. His velocity also dipped to below 90 MPH for the first time in his career last year.

 

I don't understand the FO's boner for Dempster. He doesn't fit the bill of a pitcher who would succeed at Fenway. Advanced age, diminishing velocity and inconsistency are not things this team should be looking for in terms of prospective pitching acquisitions.

[jung]

Even Dempster was smart enough to know better!

[dupree]

Even Dempster was smart enough to know better!

 

Yes!! That is the only thing that saved us

 

I think if Dempster doesnt go back to the NL he very well could go to the Royals

They are thinking they have a shot this year...they may take over 2nd best team past the White Sox by only a slim margin of games but they in no logical way are gonna take over the central from the Tigers

 

By the team thinking they are in they will overpay & i hope they do so the rumors & worried souls of red sox fans dont have to stress bout seeing Dempster go 4 - 15 and a 5.50 ERA this year and not be able to trade him at the deadline without getting horrible prospects back and picking up a huge part of his salary

[Behindenemylines]

Even Dempster was smart enough to know better!

 

Dempster is not the answer to the SP problem. Sox FO needs to be thankful he turned down the offer and just move on. I think Sanchez is out of the question because he is going to ask for too many years. If they could get him at three years they would, but there is no way that Sanchez takes less then five years. He is the number 2 FA starter and this is his one big pay day.

[RedSoxNC84]

Sanchez even at the contract he is asking for, is starting to seem like less and less of a bad idea.

 

Compared to guys like Dempster, it's a much better idea.

 

We know he is an innings eater, we know he pitches effectively, we know that he would help anchor a rotation that is in desperate need of help.

 

I say pay him.

[Lucienbel]

Sanchez even at the contract he is asking for, is starting to seem like less and less of a bad idea.

 

Compared to guys like Dempster, it's a much better idea.

 

We know he is an innings eater, we know he pitches effectively, we know that he would help anchor a rotation that is in desperate need of help.

 

I say pay him.

 

Hearing that the Dodgers might be in on Sanchez too makes me want to stay away. No need to get in a pissing match about price with them over him and end up doing something stupid.

[SoxSport]

Every year, it seems the optimists win out over the pessimists in the Red Sox organization. They don't do enough, and sure enough, they come out short. This year, they need to add another starter from the FA pool.You know their pitching is never enough. Forget about trading for one--they can't afford to weaken their present lineup unless they sign a Swisher or a Hamilton.

[SoxSport]

Hearing that the Dodgers might be in on Sanchez too makes me want to stay away. No need to get in a pissing match about price with them over him and end up doing something stupid.

 

Maybe the Dodgers will buy the Red Sox. Maybe Henry has already asked them.

[Lord Snow]

Hearing that the Dodgers might be in on Sanchez too makes me want to stay away. No need to get in a pissing match about price with them over him and end up doing something stupid.

 

Signing Greinke to that much money was such a bad move. The guy has pitched like #2 or #3 pitcher since 2010 and they just made him the highest paid right-handed pitcher in the history of the game? Just another poor decision by the front office (like volunteering to pay the balance of his contract to Carl Crawford). This reminds me of a Barry Zito-style overpay where a pitcher gets over-hyped for being a Cy Young winner still in his 20s even though his CY was 3+ years ago.

 

Not to mention Greink has anxiety issues. Much like Carl Crawford, I think he will have trouble living up to that $24.5M per year price tag and cave under the pressure.

[Palodios]

 

Burhle,

Josh Johnson,

Guthrie,

Ervin Santana,

Hanson,

Haren

Kuroda,

Peavy

Baker,

Pettite

Worley

Blanton

Mccarthy

Greinke

Hyun-Jin Ryu

Wade Davis

James Shields

 

This is getting ridiculous.

[DocHolliday]

This is getting ridiculous.

 

Still holding out hope that they make something happen now that the top SP is off the board and a highly regarded SP on the trade block was moved.

 

Would be pleased if they sign a guy like Edwin Jackson to a 2 or 3 year contract at reasonable $ and avoid giving up a draft pick.

[a700hitter]

This is getting ridiculous.

If we stand pat and enter the season with a rotation that is the league's punching bag, you know there will be people who will say that no one was available and ask "who could we have got?". LOL! They'll have a rationalization why we didn't get each pitcher on that list. This was a thin year, but one look at the list how's that there was plenty of opportunity to improve our starting pitching.

[Bellhorn04]

If we stand pat and enter the season with a rotation that is the league's punching bag, you know there will be people who will say that no one was available and ask "who could we have got?". LOL! They'll have a rationalization why we didn't get each pitcher on that list. This was a thin year, but one look at the list how's that there was plenty of opportunity to improve our starting pitching.

 

I can rationalize with the best of them, but if they don't at least add a starting pitcher it will be a travesty. The 2012 starting rotation had the highest ERA in franchise history and we have plenty of payroll room. There's no defence.

[example1]

If we stand pat and enter the season with a rotation that is the league's punching bag, you know there will be people who will say that no one was available and ask "who could we have got?". LOL! They'll have a rationalization why we didn't get each pitcher on that list. This was a thin year, but one look at the list how's that there was plenty of opportunity to improve our starting pitching.

 

You won't find me among them. They need to improve the rotation one way or another. Not even a VAST improvement, just someone with some upside to get through 2013. Even that isn't standing pat.

[BSN07]

You won't find me among them. They need to improve the rotation one way or another. Not even a VAST improvement, just someone with some upside to get through 2013. Even that isn't standing pat.

 

I won't be among them ether. They need to add something. At least one SP maybe two and a guy like a Jurrjens for depth. I'm still holding out hope they trade for Floyd. But I haven't read anything about it within the last week. That said I'd rather they do nothing if it comes to signing Dempster and Lohse for any kind of deals. If it's possible to have negative interest in players then that is how I feel on those too.

[User Name]

If they sign Dempster i'm going to consider it the same as standing pat and i'll be just as pissed.

[a700hitter]

I won't be among them ether. They need to add something. At least one SP maybe two and a guy like a Jurrjens for depth. I'm still holding out hope they trade for Floyd. But I haven't read anything about it within the last week. That said I'd rather they do nothing if it comes to signing Dempster and Lohse for any kind of deals. If it's possible to have negative interest in players then that is how I feel on those too.

Dempster and Lohse might be moves backwards.

[BSN07]

If they sign Dempster i'm going to consider it the same as standing pat and i'll be just as pissed.

I would be more pissed.

 

Dempster and Lohse might be moves backwards.

 

First time ever all three of us have been on the same page. If this doesn't conclude they should stay away from those guys, nothing will

[a700hitter]

I would be more pissed.

 

 

 

First time ever all three of us have been on the same page. If this doesn't conclude they should stay away from those guys, nothing will

I think TalkSox is almost unanimous on what has to be done at this point. If we can all agree on the strategy, it should be a duh moment for the FO. Unless they have some other big deals brewing, they need to pursue the agreed upon strategy. If they are working on something else, they had better lock it down fast before the other options are all gone.

[dupree]

Dempster and Lohse might be moves backwards.

 

Moves backwards is right

Guaranteeing any $$$ to Dempster & Loshe is a step in the wrong direction

Rather see the prospects be slotted in the rotation than 2 NL pitchers who will get hammered in the AL East

[BSN07]

Moves backwards is right

Guaranteeing any $$$ to Dempster & Loshe is a step in the wrong direction

Rather see the prospects be slotted in the rotation than 2 NL pitchers who will get hammered in the AL East

 

I hate rushing prospects, but I would rather stick 2 of them in there then those guys.

[dupree]

I hate rushing prospects, but I would rather stick 2 of them in there then those guys.

 

I remember reading an article a year or two back talking about yound players coming into the league about their impact on the game & the change that they have to make both mentally & physically. But their was Qoute in there from Billy Beane about young pitching prospects & it said

 

"No matter how good or bad a kid does in the minors, the difference in a future ace & regular rotation guy is not time its preparation, & a true ace or regular rotation guy will be that no matter what the competition."

 

& I think that is why you see Beane moving new prospects into the big league rosters every year... given he does trade away talent when they are about to get paid & recieve pitching prospects in return

I think the red sox should let the young guys have a chance rather than spend money on these 30+ year old pitchers they are gonna stranglehold the organization with their overpaid contracts

[DocHolliday]

Moves backwards is right

Guaranteeing any $$$ to Dempster & Loshe is a step in the wrong direction

Rather see the prospects be slotted in the rotation than 2 NL pitchers who will get hammered in the AL East

 

Not sure if this is true with Dempster, but I know Lohse declined the qualifying offer and would cost us a draft pick.

 

Even more reason for the FO to stay away.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I would be more pissed.

 

 

 

First time ever all three of us have been on the same page. If this doesn't conclude they should stay away from those guys, nothing will

 

Make that 4 of us! Wow. Finally. A common enemy. Ryan Dempster.

 

Give me De La Rosa and Chris Hernandez over Dempster and Lohse all day everyday.

[SoxFanForsyth]

If we stand pat and enter the season with a rotation that is the league's punching bag, you know there will be people who will say that no one was available and ask "who could we have got?". LOL! They'll have a rationalization why we didn't get each pitcher on that list. This was a thin year, but one look at the list how's that there was plenty of opportunity to improve our starting pitching.

 

If we stand pat on the SP front, this is officially an absolute punt of a season.

 

I think the Sox can be very competitive for the AL East with 1-2 SP additions. We finally have prospect-filled SP depth, with De La Rosa, Workman, Webster, Hernandez, and Wright. None of those, outside of De La Rosa, should be in the rotation this year. But they're solid options as the #6-10 starters.

 

The thing is, I think they make 1 move on the FA front (Edwin Jackson?) and 1 big move on the trade market (Not sure who, but trades happen so fast it's impossible to predict).

[dupree]

If we stand pat on the SP front, this is officially an absolute punt of a season.

 

I think the Sox can be very competitive for the AL East with 1-2 SP additions. We finally have prospect-filled SP depth, with De La Rosa, Workman, Webster, Hernandez, and Wright. None of those, outside of De La Rosa, should be in the rotation this year. But they're solid options as the #6-10 starters.

 

The thing is, I think they make 1 move on the FA front (Edwin Jackson?) and 1 big move on the trade market (Not sure who, but trades happen so fast it's impossible to predict).

 

Agreed. But soo many pitchers & starting rotations are completly refaced because of injuries i like the fact the farm system has guys who we r actually talking about and not just waiting on a trade or a FA signing

[SoxFanForsyth]

Found this interesting.

 

Here are Bill James projections for the Sox pitching in 2013:

 

Jon Lester: 211 IP, 3.72 ERA

Clay Buchholz: 190 IP, 3.64 ERA

Felix Doubront: 201 IP, 3.70 ERA

John Lackey: 209 IP, 4.05 ERA

 

According to James, the Sox pitching is about a mid-3's ERA guy away from being a very good rotation.

 

It's interesting because his predictions are typically very conservative IMO.

[Bellhorn04]

Found this interesting.

 

Here are Bill James projections for the Sox pitching in 2013:

 

Jon Lester: 211 IP, 3.72 ERA

Clay Buchholz: 190 IP, 3.64 ERA

Felix Doubront: 201 IP, 3.70 ERA

John Lackey: 209 IP, 4.05 ERA

 

According to James, the Sox pitching is about a mid-3's ERA guy away from being a very good rotation.

 

It's interesting because his predictions are typically very conservative IMO.

 

Those are some remarkable numbers. Man, what a durable group...Doubront and Lackey each over 200 innings!

 

Bill must have created some new projection models.