Valentine's job

[Dojji]

Yes, this is true, and they are a very dumb group on the whole.

 

or perhaps the job is harder than you think it is and your standards are too high.

[a700hitter]

or perhaps the job is harder than you think it is and your standards are too high.

Some of the greatest managers were hopeless drunks and buffoons. The job is not hard. Most of these guys make out a lineup card and set their pitching rotation and that's about it except for the handful of managers who over-manage and out-think themselves. They have never been a smart group of guys. My expectations of them is and always has been very low.

[Bellhorn04]

Some of the greatest managers were hopeless drunks and buffoons. The job is not hard. Most of these guys make out a lineup card and set their pitching rotation and that's about it except for the handful of managers who over-manage and out-think themselves. They have never been a smart group of guys. My expectations of them is and always has been very low.

 

So why don't the organizations hire smart guys as managers? Maybe it's because if you're smart you don't want to be a baseball manager.

[a700hitter]

So why don't the organizations hire smart guys as managers? Maybe it's because if you're smart you don't want to be a baseball manager.

Bingo. It's a s***** job for stupid guys. It never paid much either until Steinbrenner changed that with Joe Torre. At least the pay is good and it beats pumping gas.

[Behindenemylines]

The more I think about it there is no way BV returns in 2013. Attracting players outside the orginization will be impossible as long as BV is manager. What player is going to want to put themself in the situation that existed this year? Whether it is media driven or not BV is too much of a distraction.

[SoxSport]

I think the assumption is the Bobby V experiment will end after the season. The dynamics have changed. This is a team in total rebuild mode.

 

I'd like to see the PawSox manager get the job. He's done a great job, and knows a lot of the young players who are important for the Red Sox future. He clearly knows how to handle youngsters, and kept his team winning even though his best players were getting called up.

[Behindenemylines]

Who ever the manager is next year he can't be a distraction. It also has to be someone that players outside the orginazation would want to play for. Because there will be a lot of new faces on the 2013 Sox roster.

[jimbob728]

What are the chances that Lucchino and or Cherington fires Valentine on the last day of the season and at some point have the sack to say" I f***ed up big time, I let Red Sox nation down with my stupid insistence on hiring that arrogant f***ing blowhard."

I imagine it more likely that one could catch a fart in a windstorm than to hear that apology. But if they did just come out and say we f***ed up it would be admired by the fans and take the heat off for awhile.

[jung]

Whether the minor league manager should get the job should be and will be determined I suspect by how many of the guys from Pawtucket are actually going to come up. If it will be a major youth movement with many of the Pawtucket guys coming up then bringing the manager with them would be a good move. If the Sox are going to expend a great deal of the money now in their coffers on established ML stars then I would not give the job to the minor league manager.

[rhfil]

How about a poll on how many days after the last game BV is told he is done? I vote for two days.

I have always felt that the sign of a good manager is his record in close games and extra innings. That is about the only time that a manager has to make real decisions. As such Showalter has got to be American League Manager of the Year. Can not think of any other manager who has done so much with so little. Interesting to think that Francona, even though he led the Red Sox to two World Series, was never Manager of the Year.

[Bellhorn04]

I have always felt that the sign of a good manager is his record in close games and extra innings. That is about the only time that a manager has to make real decisions. As such Showalter has got to be American League Manager of the Year. Can not think of any other manager who has done so much with so little. Interesting to think that Francona, even though he led the Red Sox to two World Series, was never Manager of the Year.

 

I think Showalter should and will win it, absolutely. Mind you, a big key to the O's winning all those extra-inning games has been the incredible work by their bullpen. Just think of all the zeroes those guys have been putting up in the extra innings to allow their team to win.

 

As far as Francona not winning MOY, or even finishing in the top 3 in voting, I attribute a lot of this to the voters-the writers-often not having a clue who or why to vote for. Because manager is a very intangible position. Often it's the guy whose team improved the most in W-L record from the previous year. That's the easiest way to do it. I did some digging into this and found that for 9 straight years, from 2000 to 2008, the AL MOY was the guy whose team had the biggest increase in wins from the previous year.

 

Francona inherited a 95-win team with a lot of talent and a big payroll, so it was always going to be hard for him to convince anybody he was a difference-maker.

[jung]

During Tito's run as manager writers often commented that he was not getting much consideration because of the win totals the Sox had been generating and the general perception that the Sox were one of the more "talented" teams in the AL.

[vjcsmoke]

I think Valentine needs to be fired. And it's not entirely his fault. But this team needs to start over from square one. That means a new manager, hopefully we find a good one. Besides Valentine doesn't get a long with several key team members including Dustin Pedroia. Time to start anew for the new season!

[wyo-sox]

I liked Valentine, just think this was the perfect storm for him to fail. I hope he finds a college team to head up. The guy loves baseball and seems to work well with young players.

 

But yes he needs to go, if only because a complete new direction needs to start.

[jung]

Baseball does not need to be complicated with code. V talks in code. I just don't get how that works for a baseball team. In fact I don't think it works ever or at all for a baseball team. V may have been the distraction that LL was looking for but that does not make him a good manager.

[jung]

Did anybody here BC blurt out this morning that "I do not want to spend as much time on the manager search this offseason than I had to spend last offseason".

 

V is so obviously gone but Geez BC, where is your head? V is going to rip these guys to shreds on his way out the door.

[VA Sox Fan]

Did anybody here BC blurt out this morning that "I do not want to spend as much time on the manager search this offseason than I had to spend last offseason".

 

V is so obviously gone but Geez BC, where is your head? V is going to rip these guys to shreds on his way out the door.

 

No offense but who cares what BV says after he's gone (or at all for that matter), he's a dolt and I can't wait for him to be gone.

[mvp 78]

No offense but who cares what BV says after he's gone (or at all for that matter), he's a dolt and I can't wait for him to be gone.

 

And how would Cher Bear's comment change what BV would say anyway?

 

BV leaving town is the least interseting thing that'll happen this offseason. He'll rip the team and FO will rip him. Who cares at this point? BV is far from a sympathetic figure in this situation.

[Bellhorn04]

Did anybody here BC blurt out this morning that "I do not want to spend as much time on the manager search this offseason than I had to spend last offseason".

 

V is so obviously gone but Geez BC, where is your head? V is going to rip these guys to shreds on his way out the door.

 

It is kind of funny that BC would let it slip like that. The comedy of errors never ends.

[Elktonnick]

It is kind of funny that BC would let it slip like that. The comedy of errors never ends.

 

The problem wasn't that they spent too much time on the managerial search last year but rather, not enough time on a search for a competent general manager.

[ibot2much]

The problem wasn't that they spent too much time on the managerial search last year but rather, not enough time on a search for a competent general manager.

 

Agree!! When there is a problem a business entity needs a fresh view with a non biased pair of eyes. They did not get that with BC.

 

I am also not crazy with the idea of bringing back John Farrell.:thumbdown

[Elktonnick]

Agree!! When there is a problem a business entity needs a fresh view with a non biased pair of eyes. They did not get that with BC.

 

I am also not crazy with the idea of bringing back John Farrell.:thumbdown

 

I couldn't agree more. There are some clubhouse issues in Toronto also. I want them to pursue a competent experienced GM who will hire his own manager whomever that would be. The idea of a designated successor leaves me cold.

[Bellhorn04]

Deal with reality, folks. Cherington is your GM for the next year at least.

[ConroyManfrogg]

The problem wasn't that they spent too much time on the managerial search last year but rather, not enough time on a search for a competent general manager.

 

Was the LA trade/salary dump not a competent move? No one thought a GM could dump that much salary. Ben Cherington started with the crap hand that Tito and Theo left. I will not understand why they catch so much for this season. This season was in the making for the last 3 years.

 

I also don't buy the 'fresh start BV needs to go' argument. All the BV hate comes from predetermined opinions and not on criticism of actual managing. He didn't even have a team to manage. Good lord his own staff pulled a mutiny on him.

 

I'm in the BV fan club. Patriot and Sox fans are terribly spoiled and deserving these days. Neither seem to be humbled by memory of a not so distant past when the Patsies sucked, and the Sox constantly broke hearts.

[ConroyManfrogg]

I couldn't agree more. There are some clubhouse issues in Toronto also. I want them to pursue a competent experienced GM who will hire his own manager whomever that would be. The idea of a designated successor leaves me cold.

 

Wasn't there a recent report about bringing in someone with GM experience to work with BC?

 

ben cherington is here to stay.

[Elktonnick]

Wasn't there a recent report about bringing in someone with GM experience to work with BC?

 

ben cherington is here to stay.

 

First of all Benny had as much to do with setting up the LA deal as an office boy which was all he was in that transaction. The deal was conceived and negotiated above Benny's pay grade. Secondly unfortuneately Benny is here to stay but that doesn't make him competent for the job. Third if he weren't seen by ownership as not fully competent why are they reportedly hiring a more experienced person to assist him or why does Henry want to reportedly have Bill James reporting diectly to the owner. Sounds to me as if they don't fully trust Benny with the keys to the office.

 

My opinion which may be a minority is I'd fire Cherrington before I'd fire Valentine and that isn't to say that Valentine shouldn't be fired.

[mvp 78]

Elktonnick again making up stuff after the fact.

 

The foundation of the deal was in place prior to the trade deadline and crafted by Ben.

 

It must suck always having to fight off the truth in order to fit your personal grievances.

[Elktonnick]

Elktonnick again making up stuff after the fact.

 

The foundation of the deal was in place prior to the trade deadline and crafted by Ben.

 

It must suck always having to fight off the truth in order to fit your personal grievances.

 

That is absolutely not true. The foundations of the trade weren't made until Henry/Lucchino talked with Dodgers ownership. In any negotiation one always has fliers out there but the idea that Cherrington laid the foundatiion for this deal doesn't square with either the reporting or the business reality. The only one making up facts to suit a reality is you.

 

Cherrington does what he is told to do. He has shown no initiative since becoming GM. He for one thing is risk adverse. When told to jump his only question is how high.

[Behindenemylines]

BV was forced on BC and a lot of what was done this year came from above BC. If he is their GM then they have to let him rebuild this thing without blocking every move. BV is done and the Sox will have a new manager by the first week of November. The comments that came out of BC's mouth means to me that he has already started the search.

[a700hitter]

I can't understand people who take up Cherington's case. He has not done anything to earn anyone's admiration. This off-season will be his defining moment.