Red Sox 2012/2013 Offseason Thread

[jung]

I doubt Napoli lands in either NY or Boston. Neither will like the years. The Yanks won't like the money trying to get set up for 2014.

 

I do wish LaRoche was a RH bat but I think he is the guy the Sox end up with either 2 or 3 years. Nobody may offer him 3 which would make things cozy for the Sox.

 

I do think the Sox for once were truthful about something said earlier this off season....that being a recognition that they have not been aggressive enough bringing guys up from the farm and giving them legit chances to play without having to look over their shoulders every five seconds. Not only do they have numerous examples with guys still in the system but they may rightfully look at Riddick and surmise that had they given him a chance WITHOUT having to look over his shoulder every five seconds he might have done here what he did in Oakland.

 

So I expect guys that really have not proven they can play up here yet to get their shot in 2013. I expect this to be the year that the Sox answer this legitimate criticism for themselves and for the fans. I do not expect them to tie themselves to 4 or and 5 year deals to multiple players the likes of Swisher and Napoli and Ross. I expect they might end up with one of those three....maybe Swisher is the most likely followed by Napoli and then Ross. But I would bet one of three lands here rather than two of three or three of three.

 

The more I think about it the more I am convinced that instead of getting a bunch middling star guys and get tied to 4 and 5 year deals on them they are going to make at least one monster deal that will suck up a fair amount of the excess of cash they have but not so much that they are not left with resources and flexibility.

 

I do not think they are anywhere near as concerned as we might think they are about our desires regarding how much of the LA money they spend in one off season as there are as many fans that do not want them to spend the bulk of it in one off season as fans that do. There are also many fans that have been as critical of the Sox as they appear to now be of themselves for not being more aggressive with guys in their own system.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I doubt Napoli lands in either NY or Boston. Neither will like the years. The Yanks won't like the money trying to get set up for 2014.

 

I do wish LaRoche was a RH bat but I think he is the guy the Sox end up with either 2 or 3 years. Nobody may offer him 3 which would make things cozy for the Sox.

 

I do think the Sox for once were truthful about something said earlier this off season....that being a recognition that they have not been aggressive enough bringing guys up from the farm and giving them legit chances to play without having to look over their shoulders every five seconds. Not only do they have numerous examples with guys still in the system but they may rightfully look at Riddick and surmise that had they given him a chance WITHOUT having to look over his shoulder every five seconds he might have done here what he did in Oakland.

 

So I expect guys that really have not proven they can play up here yet to get their shot in 2013. I expect this to be the year that the Sox answer this legitimate criticism for themselves and for the fans. I do not expect them to tie themselves to 4 or and 5 year deals to multiple players the likes of Swisher and Napoli and Ross. I expect they might end up with one of those three....maybe Swisher is the most likely followed by Napoli and then Ross. But I would bet one of three lands here rather than two of three or three of three.

 

The more I think about it the more I am convinced that instead of getting a bunch middling star guys and get tied to 4 and 5 year deals on them they are going to make at least one monster deal that will suck up a fair amount of the excess of cash they have but not so much that they are not left with resources and flexibility.

 

I do not think they are anywhere near as concerned as we might think they are about our desires regarding how much of the LA money they spend in one off season as there are as many fans that do not want them to spend the bulk of it in one off season as fans that do. There are also many fans that have been as critical of the Sox as they appear to now be of themselves for not being more aggressive with guys in their own system.

 

Boston has made it 110% clear that Napoli is their #1 target, and everyone else is #1B.

 

Which is how it should be. Napoli is a very good player. The Sox will come down with him.

 

And now that Martin is gone, the Sox have a much more valuable trade chip in Salty, who will be a 20-25 HR catcher at a very reasonable cost.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I am not sure how committed they were to Martin at catcher. They loved his defense, but his offense was putrid. They have options in house with Romine being the one who I think will take over eventually. I just didn't think it was gonna be this yr. But Napoli would give them offense from the position to counteract Romine for half the games in 2013, then see if the kid sinks or swims enough to win the job outright for 2014, moving Napoli to DH

 

Not going to happen.

 

The Yankees are trying to get under the $189 threshold. Going out and giving Napoli 4/48 is not going to help that. Especially when he isn't able to catch 120+ games. And when Romine finally does take over full time catching, and you put Napoli at DH, what are you going to do with ARod? Or Jeter, when he wants to keep playing, but can't play a full season at SS??

 

The fact is that the Yankees have entirely too much money tied up to ARod to get a full time DH, or even a DH/C, where the majority of the games are at DH.

 

Napoli to the Yankees makes zero sense.

[BSN07]

I doubt Napoli lands in either NY or Boston. Neither will like the years. The Yanks won't like the money trying to get set up for 2014.

 

I do wish LaRoche was a RH bat but I think he is the guy the Sox end up with either 2 or 3 years. Nobody may offer him 3 which would make things cozy for the Sox.

 

I do think the Sox for once were truthful about something said earlier this off season....that being a recognition that they have not been aggressive enough bringing guys up from the farm and giving them legit chances to play without having to look over their shoulders every five seconds. Not only do they have numerous examples with guys still in the system but they may rightfully look at Riddick and surmise that had they given him a chance WITHOUT having to look over his shoulder every five seconds he might have done here what he did in Oakland.

 

So I expect guys that really have not proven they can play up here yet to get their shot in 2013. I expect this to be the year that the Sox answer this legitimate criticism for themselves and for the fans. I do not expect them to tie themselves to 4 or and 5 year deals to multiple players the likes of Swisher and Napoli and Ross. I expect they might end up with one of those three....maybe Swisher is the most likely followed by Napoli and then Ross. But I would bet one of three lands here rather than two of three or three of three.

 

The more I think about it the more I am convinced that instead of getting a bunch middling star guys and get tied to 4 and 5 year deals on them they are going to make at least one monster deal that will suck up a fair amount of the excess of cash they have but not so much that they are not left with resources and flexibility.

 

I do not think they are anywhere near as concerned as we might think they are about our desires regarding how much of the LA money they spend in one off season as there are as many fans that do not want them to spend the bulk of it in one off season as fans that do. There are also many fans that have been as critical of the Sox as they appear to now be of themselves for not being more aggressive with guys in their own system.

 

I think guys like Iglesias and Kalish if healthy will be given a shot to take over full time spots next year. I'm also leaning toward the idea of them signing 1/3 of those 2nd tier FA's. I don't think Laroche will sign here knowing that as soon as a better option comes along, Boston is likely to trade him away again. At this point he is at the very end of his prime and the Sox would probably end up paying for more of what he's done then what he's going to do.

 

I said earlier in the off season there was 3 avenues the Sox could take, go big(Grienke, Hamilton), that doesn't seem likely anymore.

 

Field a competitive team with shorter deal FA's(Napoli, Swisher, Ross, Haren, so on) that would reduce the teams current roster flexibility.

 

Or go the youth movement and save their money and look to spend it later in the season-future off season(s) for trades or different FA options.

 

With Napoli and Swisher rumors and Lester being called about it seems the other 2 options are still possibilities at this point. We will see here soon which is the more likely path this off season.

[jung]

Boston has made it 110% clear that Napoli is their #1 target, and everyone else is #1B.

 

Based on what? One Scott Lauber column where we does not even quote a Sox source but an industry source...doubt it

[Palodios]

Guys, don't get your hopes up. Even if the Yanks can't afford Napoli now, he'll either

1) come to play there for free

2) they'll find someone to pick up A-rod's entire contract, and they'll save money there

3) Sign elsewhere, while the Yankees get Mauer for no prospects with the Twins paying the majority of his contract.

 

Isn't that how it happens every year anyway?

[BSN07]

Ya that's the rumored Sox #1 target. No one from the team has come out and said he was. Nor would I expect them to. Truth is we are going off rumors, and rumors are rumors for a reason. Who knows, maybe the Sox aren't interested in Napoli?

[rjortiz]

Ya that's the rumored Sox #1 target. No one from the team has come out and said he was. Nor would I expect them to. Truth is we are going off rumors, and rumors are rumors for a reason. Who knows, maybe the Sox aren't interested in Napoli?

 

Yeah, that must be it.

[BSN07]

Guys, don't get your hopes up. Even if the Yanks can't afford Napoli now, he'll either

1) come to play there for free

2) they'll find someone to pick up A-rod's entire contract, and they'll save money there

3) Sign elsewhere, while the Yankees get Mauer for no prospects with the Twins paying the majority of his contract.

 

Isn't that how it happens every year anyway?

 

Not anymore. It's not George's Yankees. They are on a budget that they couldn't even fit Martin and 17M into. They would have to dump someone. And Mauer and his contract is actually a pipe dream for Yankees now.

 

Everyone needs to get used to it. LAD is the new $ threat in MLB. It's going to be interesting to see how Yankee fans react. Most have never known a team that could spend and is willing to spend more then them. They all might have identity crisis's

[SoxFanForsyth]

Ya that's the rumored Sox #1 target. No one from the team has come out and said he was. Nor would I expect them to. Truth is we are going off rumors, and rumors are rumors for a reason. Who knows, maybe the Sox aren't interested in Napoli?

 

Well Lucchino essentially confirmed that they met with Napoli and that Henry was there, which is a significant event. Henry doesn't get involved on players that they're not interested in signing.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Based on what? One Scott Lauber column where we does not even quote a Sox source but an industry source...doubt it

 

Based on multiple industry sources, including Jon Heyman who is very, very much plugged in.

 

Not to mention a meeting that Napoli had with the entire Red Sox brass, including John Henry.

[jung]

I expect Napoli is on the Sox radar screen and as much as anybody but what does that mean? Right now they could not hold down a line up of hitters fielded by the Sisters of the Poor so any everyday player other than a true superstar claimed to be their number 1 target would seem kinda' off the charts wrong headed. I don't care how little pitching there is available right now.... at least today...they can't really field an even remotely reliable ML rotation.

 

They may have Lackey in the rotation but they certainly can't at this point have any confidence in what Lackey is or is not. They have no idea what Lackey is or is not. Lester has obvious work to do. Buch ....Buch has now worked his way to the top of the Sox rotation from the perspective of reliability....BUCH! Felix....come on! Right now they have no clue what to expect from 3/4 of their existing rotation and don't even know who the mystery guest will be....and Mike Napoli is their #1 target??? I am willing to bet that the closest Lauber's "industry source" comes to the Sox is Mike Napoli's agent.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I expect Napoli is on the Sox radar screen and as much as anybody but what does that mean? Right now they could not hold down a line up of hitters fielded by the Sisters of the Poor so any everyday player other than a true superstar claimed to be their number 1 target would seem kinda' off the charts wrong headed. I don't care how little pitching there is available right now.... at least today...they can't really field an even remotely reliable ML rotation.

 

They may have Lackey in the rotation but they certainly can't at this point have any confidence in what Lackey is or is not. They have no idea what Lackey is or is not. Lester has obvious work to do. Buch ....Buch has now worked his way to the top of the Sox rotation from the perspective of reliability....BUCH! Felix....come on! Right now they have no clue what to expect from 3/4 of their existing rotation and don't even know who the mystery guest will be....and Mike Napoli is their #1 target??? I am willing to bet that the closest Lauber's "industry source" comes to the Sox is Mike Napoli's agent.

 

Ok.

 

Then go read Jen Royle's tweets. She's a friend of Napoli who is also in the media, and is talking about how he is unlikely to go to Texas, that the Red Sox are willing to give him 5 years (tweet has since been deleted), that 4 years will get him, and that the meeting he had with the Red Sox went great, according to Napoli.

 

If the Sox aren't targeting Napoli #1 right now, why haven't they given any other free agents a dinner date with John Henry?

 

I don't know why you refuse to believe it, but Napoli is their #1 target. Where there's smoke, there's fire.

[jung]

Why don't I believe it ...because right now they can't get anybody out....last I looked Napoli was not a pitcher.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Why don't I believe it ...because right now they can't get anybody out....last I looked Napoli was not a pitcher.

 

They also had a .594 team OPS in September, after the massive trade.

[BSN07]

Ok.

 

Then go read Jen Royle's tweets. She's a friend of Napoli who is also in the media, and is talking about how he is unlikely to go to Texas, that the Red Sox are willing to give him 5 years (tweet has since been deleted), that 4 years will get him, and that the meeting he had with the Red Sox went great, according to Napoli.

 

If the Sox aren't targeting Napoli #1 right now, why haven't they given any other free agents a dinner date with John Henry?

 

I don't know why you refuse to believe it, but Napoli is their #1 target. Where there's smoke, there's fire.

 

You guys are arguing different things. You say Napoli is #1 target. Jung see's the #1 need as SP so inherently Napoli can't be the #1 target.

 

How you all need to look at it as Napoli > Grienke/Sanchez when considering how much they want in terms of years and $.

 

Then Napoli is probably then still more of a value then the 2nd tier pitching market. So again he remains the #1 priority still even though the teams main need is Pitching.

[a700hitter]

You guys are arguing different things. You say Napoli is #1 target. Jung see's the #1 need as SP so inherently Napoli can't be the #1 target.

 

How you all need to look at it as Napoli > Grienke/Sanchez when considering how much they want in terms of years and $.

 

Then Napoli is probably then still more of a value then the 2nd tier pitching market. So again he remains the #1 priority still even though the teams main need is Pitching.

It would be pretty sad IMO if the FO doesn't recognize that starting pitching is their biggest need. Second tier pitching would be a big improvement, because their staff is very poor and incomplete.

[jung]

It does matter whether Sanchez or Grienke...they don't have 5 guys in the rotation....they only have four!!!! and unfortunately just any old starter won't do. They already have the any old starter role filled by Felix who by the way people here want to toss around as trade bait so maybe they actually have two holes in the rotation. Unless they intend setting the clock back forty years they need at least one more starter of some stature greater than 5...probably greater than 4 cause Lackey is probably that guy.

 

Even if they had five guys unless the mystery guest is some stud...(highly highly doubtful), the most pressing concern on this team would still be starting pitching.

 

It never ceases to amaze me....how little Fenway's fans value pitching. Now apparently we have gotten to the point where the Sox don't even have 5 rotation guys, they have three question marks and a solid #5...So, they don't even have A ROTATION yet and the #1 target is Mr swing man catcher /1st basemen. This after a season where their starting pitching totally blew apart. The Sox blew up the lineup by virtue of trade....the rotation blew itself up.

 

Only in Boston.

[BSN07]

It does matter whether Sanchez or Grienke...they don't have 5 guys in the rotation....they only have four!!!! and unfortunately just any old starter won't do. They already have the any old starter role filled by Felix who by the way people here want to toss around as trade bait so maybe they actually have two holes in the rotation. Unless they intend setting the clock back forty years they need at least one more starter of some stature greater than 5...probably greater than 4 cause Lackey is probably that guy.

 

Even if they had five guys unless the mystery guest is some stud...(highly highly doubtful), the most pressing concern on this team would still be starting pitching.

 

It never ceases to amaze me....how little Fenway's fans value pitching. Now apparently we have gotten to the point where the Sox don't even have 5 rotation guys, they have three question marks and a solid #5...So, they don't even have A ROTATION yet and the #1 target is Mr swing man catcher /1st basemen. This after a season where their starting pitching totally blew apart. The Sox blew up the lineup by virtue of trade....the rotation blew itself up.

 

The thing is unless they trade for a true #1 the rotation is going to be ? mark going into the season regardless of what FA they sign. ANd those type of pitchers don't seem to be available.

 

Only in Boston.

 

They will obviously bring in some SP. I just think it could come after Napoli/Position player signing. Only because that player is more valuable and likely to go quicker then the SP market they might be interested in(the one year guys, Haren, McCarthy).

 

Grienke is not likely. Sanchez wants too much. Edwin Jackson is good but meh. After that it drops of to the one year guys(they shouldn't even consider Dempster or Lohse IMO). Is it worth it to spend all their times on those one year types and ignore the more valuable position player market just because SP is more of a need?

[SoxSport]

I don't know who will be non-tendered, but if they non-tender Aceves, it will be the first mistake they make this year. He was one of their best pitchers last year--until he was badly mismanaged and over-used. These guys aren't robots or boring corporate types; they are athletes and competitors. They are the anti-Ben Cheringtons, if you get what I mean.

 

One guy who should be history is Melancon. The guy sucked when it counted early last year. Send him back to Houston.

[Palodios]

Its sounding like the second tier pitching market hasn't developed because everyone is waiting for Greinke/Sanchez to find homes.

[mvp 78]

They'll non-tender Atchison (12 injury), Hill (always injured), and Sweeney (injured, no pop). They will bring Aceves back.

[BSN07]

They'll non-tender Atchison (12 injury), Hill (always injured), and Sweeney (injured, no pop). They will bring Aceves back.

 

Ya that's how I see it too. I think they will shop Aceves too.

[mvp 78]

I think Farrell likes Aceves, so they'll probably try to make it work out.

[BSN07]

I think Farrell likes Aceves, so they'll probably try to make it work out.

 

I can see that too but if someone shows interest and offers something nice they should do it. I do like his versatility though, but he seems as volatile as Julian Tavarez

[iortiz]

I think Farrell likes Aceves, so they'll probably try to make it work out.

 

I would give him his 2011 roll.

[iortiz]

Ortiz: Red Sox need to add 'thunder'

 

By ESPNBoston.com | Nov 30, 2012 10:06 AM

Boston Red Sox designated hitter David Ortiz said Thursday night his team needed to add some “thunder” to a lineup that still has a few holes to fill.

 

Ortiz ranked second on the team in homers with 23, and he played in just 90 games. Jarrod Saltalamacchia led the Sox with 25 homers and Cody Ross was the only other player with more than 20 (he had 22). The Sox lost arguably their most productive bat in dealing Adrian Gonzalez last season and have yet to replace him with a comparable hitter.

 

Notably, the Red Sox need to add at least one other corner outfielder and a first baseman either though free-agency or trade.

 

“It’s not a surprise for anyone that follows the Red Sox that we need some thunder in that lineup,” Ortiz said Thursday night on Boston sports radio WEEI’s “Hot Stove Show”. “The problem is that there isn’t too many out there. That’s one thing. I’m pretty sure everybody needs to be a little patient. We have the winter meetings right now coming up and a lot of decisions get made right after the winter meetings, so hopefully they come out with some decisions."

 

The Sox struck a deal with corner outfielder Jonny Gomes, who had 18 homers and an .868 OPS as a part-time player in Oakland last season. He projects to play a platoon role with the Red Sox as well.

 

Ortiz also made a case on WEEI for the team bringing back Ross, something team president Larry Lucchino acknowledged was still a priority.

 

“I think Cody deserves an opportunity to come back,” Ortiz said. “He played in the toughest time we were going through and he handled himself pretty good. He did a great job. He’s a great teammate. He’s a great, great teammate and he’s a guy that cares. Me, as a player, that’s what matters to me, when you have guys that care about winning, care about coming in every day and trying to make a difference. That’s the type of player I like to have around and that’s the type of player this organization needs. Cody did all of that throughout the year.”

 

The Sox met with Mike Napoli last week and have made contact with a number of outfielders on the free-agent market, including Shane Victorino, Nick Swisher, Ryan Ludwick and Nate McLouth.

 

Still, the pickings are slim in the power department outside of the team signing power-hitting outfielder Josh Hamilton, who will probably command a deal that’s outside of the Sox’s comfort zone. The Sox could go after Adam LaRoche, who hit 33 homers, drove in 100 runs and had an .853 OPS for the Nationals last season.

 

Ortiz also told WEEI he recently met with Red Sox team doctors about the Achillies injury that ended his season and said his recovery was “pretty much ahead of the plan that they had.”

 

"I'm not fully recovered,” Ortiz said. “They say now with the new things that I'm going to be doing I'm probably going to get sore until I get used to it because I haven't been doing any running or any agility for the past three or four months. But they say that I'm looking pretty good."

 

Seems like everybody knows this. Hopefully our FO is in the same page.

[mvp 78]

Ludwick/McClouth/Victorino... Feel the excitement!

[SoxFanForsyth]

Tender deadline tonight at 11:59 pm.

 

Would not be surprised at all to see the Sox acquire Jurrjens.

[mvp 78]

Tender deadline tonight at 11:59 pm.

 

Would not be surprised at all to see the Sox acquire Jurrjens.

 

Would help to bring TS spelling to an all new low.