7/17 v White Sox

[Bellhorn04]

Yeah' date=' that was a stupid f*cking deal giving him to the White Sox. [/quote']

 

At this point I have to agree. We got virtually nothing back and we traded him to a team who was coming in to play 4 games against us.

[2004 ALCS]

I'm sure if we traded Youkilis to an NL team for less of a return people would have complained just as much.

[a700hitter]

You want any impact SP last offseason via trade? Say goodbye to Middlebrooks and say hello to constant drama between Youkilis and Valentine.

 

You want the Sox to go out and dump more big money on guys like Mark Buehrle (5.1 K/9)? He would get hammered at Fenway as a soft throwing LHP.

 

You want the Sox to go out and get Roy Oswalt? They tried, first off, and 2nd off, he's got a 6.26 ERA.

 

What pitcher did you want the Red Sox to get in the offseason??

Edwin jackson would have been nice. I have checked to see how the prospects are doing that were traded for Gio. Not that freaking great. Plus, the Nat's signed the guy for 5 years at $8 million per year. That's a bargain. We gave jenks $12 million for about 6 innings.

[a700hitter]

I'm sure if we traded Youkilis to an NL team for less of a return people would have complained just as much.

Less of a return. We got nothing.

[VA Sox Fan]

sort of surreal

 

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7blwlFBGf1rpid5ho1_1280.png

 

Yeah, really. Thanks for sharing.....

[SoxFanForsyth]

You want to know why this team is struggling right now??

 

1. Jon Lester had a 3.33 ERA over the 4 seasons prior to this, encompassing over 800 IP. This year? He's got a 4.80 ERA

 

2. Josh Beckett had a 3.83 ERA over the past 5 seasons, encompassing over 900 IP. This year? He's got a 4.44 ERA.

 

3. Clay Buchholz had a 3.10 ERA over the past 3 seasons, encompassing 350 IP. This year? He's got a 5.54 ERA.

 

It's not that the Red Sox didn't have the horses. They have the horses. You just can't expect your top 3 to all have ERA's that balloon 50% or more compared to how they've thrown in recent years.

[iortiz]

At this point I have to agree. We got virtually nothing back and we traded him to a team who was coming in to play 4 games against us.

 

Did we save money at least? Or neither?

[SoxFanForsyth]

Edwin jackson would have been nice. I have checked to see how the prospects are doing that were traded for Gio. Not that freaking great. Plus' date=' the Nat's signed the guy for 5 years at $8 million per year. That's a bargain. We gave jenks $12 million for about 6 innings.[/quote']

 

Edwin Jackson would have been great. If he wanted to throw in the AL East in a 1 year pillow contract.

 

He didn't.

 

Roy Oswalt would have been nice. If he wanted to throw in the AL East on a 1 year pillow contract.

 

He didn't.

 

You can't just assume that every pitcher wants to pitch here. Oswalt and EJax didn't want to throw here because they wanted to post good numbers going into a new contract.

[2004 ALCS]

Less of a return. We got nothing.

 

Do you think we could have gotten more of a return for him from an NL team but we decided to trade him to the White Sox just for shits and giggles?

[a700hitter]

You want to know why this team is struggling right now??

 

1. Jon Lester had a 3.33 ERA over the 4 seasons prior to this, encompassing over 800 IP. This year? He's got a 4.80 ERA

 

2. Josh Beckett had a 3.83 ERA over the past 5 seasons, encompassing over 900 IP. This year? He's got a 4.44 ERA.

 

3. Clay Buchholz had a 3.10 ERA over the past 3 seasons, encompassing 350 IP. This year? He's got a 5.54 ERA.

 

It's not that the Red Sox didn't have the horses. They have the horses. You just can't expect your top 3 to all have ERA's that balloon 50% or more compared to how they've thrown in recent years.

Not a single one of these so-called horses pitched 200 innings last season. You over rate them.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Not a single one of these so-called horses pitched 200 innings last season. You over rate them.

 

Lester has averaged 203 IP over the past 4 seasons. He threw 191.2 IP last year, missing 200 IP for the first time since he had a full time SP job.

 

Beckett threw 193 IP. He missed it by a start.

 

You're splitting hairs.

[mvp 78]

Of course....hindsight is 20/20

 

Not hindsight. I like Buehrle as a pitcher who eats innings. Helps that he's big into dog rescue too. I've liked him for a while. My other non Red Sox binkie is Adam Dunn, who I wanted on the Sox when he went to the Nats.

[a700hitter]

Do you think we could have gotten more of a return for him from an NL team but we decided to trade him to the White Sox just for shits and giggles?

No, I think Cherries was afraid to get nothing for him and took the only thing he got offered-- a bust prospect who will never amount to anything. He incompetent and a coward. If he said that he couldn't get anything helpful for Youk so he salary dumped him to an NL team for nothing rather than send him to an AL team, I would have understood and been okay with that.

[VA Sox Fan]

Not hindsight. I like Buehrle as a pitcher who eats innings. Helps that he's big into dog rescue too. I've liked him for a while. My other non Red Sox binkie is Adam Dunn' date=' who I wanted on the Sox when he went to the Nats.[/quote']

 

I didn't mean you goofy. I meant the others who were saying we should've done more in the off season

[Bellhorn04]

Do you think we could have gotten more of a return for him from an NL team but we decided to trade him to the White Sox just for shits and giggles?

 

It depends on whether Zach Stewart is an actual prospect, because Lillibridge was obviously a pointless acquisition.

[mvp 78]

I didn't mean you goofy. I meant the others who were saying we should've done more in the off season

 

Whatever Donald Duck...

[wyo-sox]

Is Lester pulling a Youkilis? Don't bet against it on this club. Some of those guys are still pissed at the manager change. They don't have it so easy anymore.

 

4 SBs tonite for Ells-CC. That wouldn't have happened with Tito. V just opened the speedgates.

 

I'm beginning to think he is pulling a Youk. No way they just got this bad. No way changing the color of Kevins sox made him a great player again over night. Some of these guys really believe they are worth what they get paid and have taken themselves so seriously that they have no problem putting themselves above the team.

[jung]

Well I thought even at the start of the season the hole was at the 1. We did not in my view have a legitimate 1. Lester was not going to be a 1, Beckett was not and Buch was not. My God some of us were posting in December that we had two 2's and a 3 at best. This reliance on career numbers simply does not wash. What are you guys going to do when a guy has bad season after bad season, just stubbornly insist that he will eventually come back to his career numbers?

 

Players change over time...especially pitchers.

 

Back to start of the season....I gave up on us getting what we needed because I did not see it happening and began to support bringing in somebody to slot in at about where Buch was....something like a 3. I would have been wrong! I think unfortunately, we were doomed from the start which is something many of us were saying at the time....that a) we did not have a legitimate 1 and without at least resolving that issue in the rotation we were doomed...never mind the hitting...never mind the lineup that lead the division until imploding....we were doomed. Unfortunately when all is said and done, I think that will be the enduring legacy of the 2012 team. Maybe not but that is my gut now, was my gut then and have not seen anything that changes that view YET.

[SoxFanForsyth]

No' date=' I think Cherries was afraid to get nothing for him and took the only thing he got offered-- a bust prospect who will never amount to anything. He incompetent and a coward. If he said that he couldn't get anything helpful for Youk so he salary dumped him to an NL team for nothing rather than send him to an AL team, I would have understood and been okay with that.[/quote']

 

One player does not win or lose a game. Period.

 

You have to have faith that your club can beat any other team at any time. You want a GM who is going to manage scared? Fine. Not me. I want a GM who isn't afraid to send an aging player to another team as long as you get maximum return. Give me the GM who isn't scared that Youkilis is going to come back and have a big knock against us sometime.

[VA Sox Fan]

Whatever Donald Duck...

 

:lol:

[iortiz]

No' date=' I think Cherries was afraid to get nothing for him and took the only thing he got offered-- a bust prospect who will never amount to anything. He incompetent and a coward. If he said that he couldn't get anything helpful for Youk so he salary dumped him to an NL team for nothing rather than send him to an AL team, I would have understood and been okay with that.[/quote']

 

If I were JH I would send a memo to BC demanding answers, and must be delivered tonight, no tomo, tonight!, and trust me, it wouldn't start with a "Dear Ben" or with a "Good Night Ben".

[Youk Of The Nation]

That's Daisy Duck.

[Bellhorn04]

One player does not win or lose a game. Period.

 

You have to have faith that your club can beat any other team at any time. You want a GM who is going to manage scared? Fine. Not me. I want a GM who isn't afraid to send an aging player to another team as long as you get maximum return. Give me the GM who isn't scared that Youkilis is going to come back and have a big knock against us sometime.

 

In this case though it was a 4 game series in a couple of weeks.

[jung]

And just to credit 700......the single most important stat for a starting pitcher is innings pitched. Given the 2011 performances of our 1,2 and 3 I do think the concerns some of us voiced way before the season started were legitimate and legitimized by what we have seen so far this year.

[SoxFanForsyth]

In this case though it was a 4 game series in a couple of weeks.

 

What does it matter?? It doesn't matter. You don't forego making a trade because you're scared about playing them in a week. That's ridiculous.

[2004 ALCS]

What does it matter?? It doesn't matter. You don't forego making a trade because you're scared about playing them in a week. That's ridiculous.

 

Exactly. It would be one thing if we traded him to the Yankees or Orioles. But you don't not make a trade because it will result in you possibly facing the player four times the entire rest of the year.

[2004 ALCS]

sort of surreal

 

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7blwlFBGf1rpid5ho1_1280.png

 

Thanks dick.

[jung]

I think Lester is lost....Youk was unhappy with the way things were going....unhappy that he was here when it was so obvious that the Sox had to move on....Lester is not pulling anything. He is just lost and unless he comes to terms with what and who he is and unless the Sox come to terms with what they really need to do with this rotation, Lester may finally throw in the towel and believe his career is better served elsewhere...but for now he is just lost and desperately needs the leadership of a 1 in the rotation and a good pitching coach.

[Bellhorn04]

What does it matter?? It doesn't matter. You don't forego making a trade because you're scared about playing them in a week. That's ridiculous.

 

It's the combination of the upcoming series and the fact that we got next to nothing in return that calls the wisdom of the move into question.

[2004 ALCS]

It's the combination of the upcoming series and the fact that we got next to nothing in return that calls the wisdom of the move into question.

 

Would you have kept him? We weren't getting a significant return regardless of who we traded him to.