7/13 @ TB

[a700hitter]

Ok. Good. The top 3 need to throw better. Know why I think they will?

 

Lester: 4.49 era, 3.57 FIP

Beckett: 4.43 era, 3.69 FIP

Buchholz: 3.35 era in last 8 starts.

 

FIP is a very good indicator of future performance. And Buch is trending in the right direction.

 

It's a shame that your negativity gets in the way of objectivity.

I think Beckett has a better chance than Lester to regain his form and pitch well in the second half. The big question with regard to Beckett IMO is his commitment. He definitely gives off a vibe that he doesn't give a s***. I think Lester is desperate to improve his performance, but he is having a lot of trouble adjusting to the decreasing velocity and drop in strike outs. Beckett has already adapted to the change in his stuff and succeeded.

[Brennan]

What do you want? This team needs a MAJOR overhaul. The FO keeps putting little band aids on. We can all stick our heads in the sand and pretend that trees grow cotton candy and cute little puppies s*** gumdrops and keep thinking that this team is more than it is but guess what? It's not. I am a fan of the idea that is the Boston Red Sox, I am not a fan of the FO letting this team spiral so out of control that the Duquette years are something we long to go back to. Everyone that keeps wishing that this wasn't true is kidding themselves. As Burgess Meridith said in Grumpy Old Men, "You can wish in one hand and crap in the other... see which one gets filled first". It's an immediate gratification mindset that looks at this team and tries to wish it to a WS title. Dissect it, cut out the cancers and plant new healthy cells. 4 or 5 years down the road we can have another dynasty. I just fear that Henry has lost interest. Maybe someone new will see what a cash cow the 2004 and 2007 teams were and spend some money wisely. That is my hope. If it makes MVP and SFF feel better to question my fandom, to each his own. Sorry but I couldn't care less.

[SemperFi Sox]

Buster Olney reporting that Crawford will return on July 16th against the ChiSox. So he will miss only 3 more games.

 

Fantastic news. Can't wait for him to shove his foot in a lot of mouths around here.

 

bull

 

 

he'll step on the field and then will require tommy john.

[jung]

I think CC will find a way to avoid TJ at least till the end of this season. However the injury is there. So he will not be able to throw normally without inducing pain that may send him to the sidelines for the remainder of the season. So I do think he will end up soft tossing the ball back into the infield. So I suspect that CC shoving his foot in a lot of mouths around here will be a stretch. He will have to hit a ton to make us forget every time a runner joyfully parades home while CC soft tosses to SS. In fact he will have to hit a ton just to make us forget the lost year and half we have gotten out of him so far.

 

If anything I think we will all just be relieved if he just doesn't suck. This whole CC fiasco has been so bad to this point that if he just doesn't suck, that itself would be a pleasant surprise.

[mvp 78]

I didn't question anyone's fandom. Just question the attitude of mocking people who are still rooting for the team. If this team was the equivalent of the Royals, I'd still root them on every game. You have every right to say they suck, but mocking people who want them to win is just plain dumb.

[Brennan]

I think CC will find a way to avoid TJ at least till the end of this season. However the injury is there. So he will not be able to throw normally without inducing pain that may send him to the sidelines for the remainder of the season. So I do think he will end up soft tossing the ball back into the infield. So I suspect that CC shoving his foot in a lot of mouths around here will be a stretch. He will have to hit a ton to make us forget every time a runner joyfully parades home while CC soft tosses to SS. In fact he will have to hit a ton just to make us forget the lost year and half we have gotten out of him so far.

 

If anything I think we will all just be relieved if he just doesn't suck. This whole CC fiasco has been so bad to this point that if he just doesn't suck, that itself would be a pleasant surprise.

 

 

 

 

But Jung, the blind optimism or "real fandom" exhibited in the statement is based on his career in TB years ago and will this will be met with once you have talent, you never lose it". I appreciate that these guys want the team to win but pinning hopes on a guy who has been injured for a year and a half, is STILL injured, has a lot to live down and was really a questionable fit to begin with is just a little to far away from reality for me. I too used to watch what he did in TB and wish that he would do that for us and not against us. I'm sure he will someday but not likely this season.

[Brennan]

I didn't question anyone's fandom. Just question the attitude of mocking people who are still rooting for the team. If this team was the equivalent of the Royals' date=' I'd still root them on every game. You have every right to say they suck, but mocking people who want them to win is just plain dumb.[/quote']

 

 

 

You stretch it to far. I said "Go Red Sox" sarcastically, you took that as me saying that no one is allowed to root for their team anymore. Sorry but half the guys on this team basically s*** on the fans on a daily basis. It is my belief that they don't deserve to be rooted for. These are MY feelings, I never said they should be yours.

[mvp 78]

How exactly did I stretch it too far?

 

You mocked SFF for thinking the Sox will turn it around with "Go Red Sox." For wanting the Sox to win, you mocked him. Basically, that sums up almost all of your posts.

 

If they don't deserve to be rooted for, why bother watching the rest of the season?

[Emmz]

bull

 

 

he'll step on the field and then will require tommy john.

 

Your posts just seem to get worse and worse. For crying out loud stick with an avatar too, will ya?

[SCM33]

Your posts just seem to get worse and worse. For crying out loud stick with an avatar too' date=' will ya?[/quote']

 

Yeah, hes pretty negative....which is too bad because he started out sounding like he knew what he was talking about.

[Emmz]

He's starting to sound like Youker20/PWNdroia, etc.

[jung]

Plenty of mocking has gone on from both sides of the argument. I am not complaining for myself. I don't think I have been subjected to bards all that venomous but it has gotten pretty close once or twice and I have held my tongue. To be honest, from what I have seen, those that have come to this forum expressing their opinion all be it, none to optimistic based on what they have seen have been mocked quite a bit and for the most part because they have not genuflected to the notion that "anything can happen" as if the notion that anything can happen is some sort of revelation and has the power to eliminate discussion along a less optimistic course.

 

Those expressing a less optimistic view have often met demands that they present statistical evidence supporting their lack of optimism and when they do they are confronted with the same intolerance suspended within the same "anything can happen" logic path. Seems to me they have been on balance more tolerant than some in the anything can happen camp but regrettably there has been some degree of intolerance both ways.

 

In some instances, I have seen some from the anything can happen camp use fairly sharp, critical and to some extent disturbing language to describe some forum members while in the same breadth claiming that said forum members make this an unpleasant place to come on occasion because their opinion and their viewpoint are none to rosy. I know, at times, the view that things are pretty bad has been expressed pretty stridently. I don't think I have been strident but I think I recognize it when I see it and some of the comments fall into that category IMO.

 

I have a suggestion though for those in the anything can happen camp. Start an anything can happen thread and ask that anybody with a view that the anything can happen view while valid does not really have a foundation in anything more substantive than chaos theory (If a butterfly flaps its wings in Indonesia, the Red Sox make the post season sort of thing) simply not post in that thread. I can offer you an iron clad guarantee that if I saw such a thread with that request, I would not post in that thread. Then when it gets to unpleasant in the general TalkSox forum, folks from the anything can happen camp can go to that thread and blissfully anything can happen themselves to their hearts content. I am not suggesting that they should not be allowed to continue to forward the anything can happen view in the general forum. That is what this post is about. All opinions should be welcome whether optimistic or less than optimistic as long as they are pure and free of an agenda. I am suggesting that the name calling and the derogatory comments directed against those that are not in the anything can happen camp cease. Because in truth it is the name calling and personal attacks that I think makes it unpleasant around here, not people deciding that they are not going to genuflect to the notion that anything can happen.

[SemperFi Sox]

Your posts just seem to get worse and worse. For crying out loud stick with an avatar too' date=' will ya?[/quote']

 

Who are you? Wow you're really not noticeable. Why in the f*** are you concerned about my avatar? LOL.

[Emmz]

No one's being censored, this is how all forums are. I'm frustrated with this team, and it probably makes me less tolerant when I'm reading everything here and getting stressed out.

 

Overall, I think everyone needs to be able to take different opinions on the chin a little bit better.

[Emmz]

Who are you? Wow you're really not noticeable. Why in the f*** are you concerned about my avatar? LOL.

 

Maybe I should change my avatar every 3 hours to get attention. Lol, you have 450 posts and I only seem to notice the ones when you have a different avatar.

[SemperFi Sox]

Maybe I should change my avatar every 3 hours to get attention. Lol' date=' you have 450 posts and I only seem to notice the ones when you have a different avatar. [/quote']

 

Yes, attention, that's what I'm after . And you have 9,000 posts and i haven't read anything substantial from you yet. I'm not getting in a pissing contest with you, buzz off.

[Emmz]

Thank you, I'd be a little depressed if a guy who posts gems like "our ownership is to stupid to be sellers" and "bull he will step on the field and require tommy john" was fond of my posts.

[Brennan]

How exactly did I stretch it too far?

 

You mocked SFF for thinking the Sox will turn it around with "Go Red Sox." For wanting the Sox to win, you mocked him. Basically, that sums up almost all of your posts.

 

If they don't deserve to be rooted for, why bother watching the rest of the season?

 

 

Yeah, let's ignore his post to me. I don't start s*** but I'll say something in my defense anytime.

[mvp 78]

Whoa! we're gonna turn it around with C.C. and Ells now?

 

Cool, I thought they had spent alot of time on the DL but evidently they must have successfully trained to become ace pitchers in the ALE, now I can see why everyone is pinning their hopes on these two turning this trainwreck around.

 

My bad.

 

This was your first post. Instead of critiquing his points, you just mock them. It's not furthering a discussion when you continually talk down to everyone.

[Klare]

Although this team is still very much in it, I also think they need a little shake up. How is this?

 

1. Ellsbury + Beckett for Hamels. Clears money, sign Hamels long term. He's the ace you need.

 

2. Cecchini + Lavarnway for Garza. Cecchini and Lavarnway are blocked. Lavarnway is a 25 year old. Let him play already, and get something in return.

 

3. Jon Lester + Tazawa for Justin Upton. Lester isn't happy in Boston, according to Gammons, and he could almost certainly pull a guy like Justin Upton. Pitching in the NL West, he would be a beast. Justin Uptons swing in Fenway would be beautiful.

 

Thoughts on any of the 3?

 

Hamels would be great , but we can't miss Jacoby Ellsbury.

[Guest]

Yeah' date=' hes pretty negative....which is too bad because he started out sounding like he knew what he was talking about.[/quote']

 

Being negative and knowing what you are talking about are not mutually exclusive.

[Guest]

bull

 

 

he'll step on the field and then will require tommy john.

 

Tell you what: its a mistake for him not to get the surgery sooner rather than later. Given his history of setbacks from injuries he might take a full six months or longer to recover. If the surgery takes place when the season is over in early October that puts him into April before he can begin his rehab assignments, meaning he might miss some of next season too.

[VA Sox Fan]

Pitching matchups for the Rays series

 

Posted by Peter Abraham, Globe Staff July 12, 2012 10:00 AM

 

Friday: LHP Franklin Morales (1-2, 3.50) vs. RHP Jeremy Hellickson (4-5, 3.41), 7:10 p.m., NESN, MLB Network

 

Saturday: RHP Clay Buchholz (8-2, 5.53) vs. LHP David Price (11-4, 2.82), 7:10 p.m., NESN, MLB Network

 

Sunday: RHP Josh Beckett (4-7, 4.43) vs. RHP James Shields (8-5, 4.17), 1:40 p.m., NESN

[VA Sox Fan]

I didn't question anyone's fandom. Just question the attitude of mocking people who are still rooting for the team. If this team was the equivalent of the Royals' date=' I'd still root them on every game. You have every right to say they suck, [b']but mocking people who want them to win is just plain dumb[/b].

 

That's the schtick of the internet know-it-all. I got mocked in the last GT for being psyched about Punto getting a hit. I didn't say he was good or an MVP, just glad the guy got a hit.

 

I wish the Red Sox were better, we all do. But I root for them regardless. I always have. Just like you.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Tell you what: its a mistake for him not to get the surgery sooner rather than later. Given his history of setbacks from injuries he might take a full six months or longer to recover. If the surgery takes place when the season is over in early October that puts him into April before he can begin his rehab assignments' date=' meaning he might miss some of next season too.[/quote']

 

So why not see how he does now? If he comes back and is the offensive force that we all know he can be, then he helps this team right now, and could provide the difference between not making the WC and giving us a chance at making a deep PS run. If he comes back and we continue to play .500 ball, get the surgery at the beginning of September or late August. Then he is back for next season on time.

 

But don't just throw away this season out of spite. What's the point of not letting him play now just so you can have him ready in January??

[SoxFanForsyth]

Pitching matchups for the Rays series

 

Posted by Peter Abraham, Globe Staff July 12, 2012 10:00 AM

 

Friday: LHP Franklin Morales (1-2, 3.50) vs. RHP Jeremy Hellickson (4-5, 3.41), 7:10 p.m., NESN, MLB Network

 

Saturday: RHP Clay Buchholz (8-2, 5.53) vs. LHP David Price (11-4, 2.82), 7:10 p.m., NESN, MLB Network

 

Sunday: RHP Josh Beckett (4-7, 4.43) vs. RHP James Shields (8-5, 4.17), 1:40 p.m., NESN

 

I like the match ups in games 1 and 3. Both Hellickson and Shields had complete fluke seasons last season which were fueled by a ridiculous BABIP and strand rate.

 

Shields: .258 BABIP, 79.6% strand rate

 

Hellickson: .219 BABIP, 82% strand rate. He's still got a .255 BABIP and an 83% strand rate this year, and his era ballooned by .46 points already. And he is still due for regression.

 

Hopefully Buchholz is on target. Game 2 will be tough.

[Guest]

So why not see how he does now? If he comes back and is the offensive force that we all know he can be, then he helps this team right now, and could provide the difference between not making the WC and giving us a chance at making a deep PS run. If he comes back and we continue to play .500 ball, get the surgery at the beginning of September or late August. Then he is back for next season on time.

 

But don't just throw away this season out of spite. What's the point of not letting him play now just so you can have him ready in January??

 

You see us as having a reasonable chance to be relevant in the playoffs. I don't. If I felt as you do I would want to have Crawford back out there too to maximize the team's chances for THIS year. I prefer a strategy based on next year or the year after that..or even 2015.

[Bellhorn04]

You see us as having a reasonable chance to be relevant in the playoffs. I don't. If I felt as you do I would want to have Crawford back out there too to maximize the team's chances for THIS year. I prefer a strategy based on next year or the year after that..or even 2015.

 

As SFF says though, if you assume a 6 month recovery, he ain't gonna do us any good in January, so why not see how he plays now.

[Laser Show]

Hamels would be great ' date=' but we can't miss Jacoby Ellsbury.[/quote']

 

Our offense is 2nd without Ellsbury, so I think we're doing fine there. All the offense in the world won't win us a WS if our pitching is atrocious. Statwise, it'd pretty be swapping Beckett for Hamels, which is a major win. There's no way Ellsbury resigns here, although it's possible that Hamels does.

[redsoxbeatz]

Our offense is 2nd without Ellsbury' date=' so I think we're doing fine there. All the offense in the world won't win us a WS if our pitching is atrocious. Statwise, it'd pretty be swapping Beckett for Hamels, which is a major win. There's no way Ellsbury resigns here, although it's possible that Hamels does.[/quote']

 

Maybe Beckett would enjoy being w/Paps too.

 

I only think Crawford should rejoin if Cherry is getting the Red Sox an ace. Otherwise I don't know what the point would be? Maybe to help him shed some rust or to appease the fans who are upset with the signing & injuries. Well, whatever.

 

I hope Buch hasn't lost his change up again. I predict he will go 7 IP.

 

I can smell powdered sugar like crazy right now... Smells so good! But I don't have any in my aparrtment wonder where it's coming from.