7/13 @ TB

[SoxFanForsyth]

You see us as having a reasonable chance to be relevant in the playoffs. I don't. If I felt as you do I would want to have Crawford back out there too to maximize the team's chances for THIS year. I prefer a strategy based on next year or the year after that..or even 2015.

 

So let's say that Lester and Beckett return and throw consistent with their FIP's. And Buchholz continues to throw to his 3.35 era like he had for his past 8 starts.

 

Those aren't outrageous projections by any means. You are telling me that you are so against this teams chances that you wouldnt want Crawford to be in LF in the event that we have a 1 game playoff against, say, the Angels? Or are you so sold on the fact that a 2.5 game deficit is just an unbearable amount of games to overcome? Do you truly think that with Ellsbury, Pedroia, and Crawford at the top of the order, the Orioles, Tigers, A's, Rays, and Angels are so much better that the Sox can't pick up 2 or 3 games on them?

 

Now, I assume you agree that this team is capable of making a WC slot, but you don't like the odds of winning a WC game because of our pitchers. Well, let's take another look at how Crawford does against other teams aces.

 

Angels: Weaver: .333/.333/.600

Tigers: Verlander: .310/.310/.310

Guardians: Masterson: .267/.333/.667

Rays: Price: 0-9

Orioles: Not gonna happen, but Crawford hasn't faced Hammel.

 

Point being, if the Sox make the 2nd wild card, there's a very good chance that Crawford can play a big role in that WC game. So why the heck wouldn't we wait and at least give our best shot to win this year? Because you want Crawford to be back in January?!? That makes zero sense.

[redsoxbeatz]

SFF has a good point.

 

Is this under the assumption Morales & Cook are #4—#5?

[SoxFanForsyth]

SFF has a good point.

 

Is this under the assumption Morales & Cook are #4—#5?

 

More likely Doubront and Morales/Cook/Acquisition X (Garza?)

[jung]

I do think it is worth a shot for the Sox to have CC play now. He wants to play. If your argument against is what can we gain from it, then what can it hurt is also valid, unless any time from the 2013 season is also in jeopardy. Frankly so few of these timing things have fallen our way that it is the one thing that gives me pause.

 

Beyond that....what can it hurt and it may help. I still think the imagery associated with CC soft tossing the ball into SS while opponent runners are blissfully running around the bases might be tough...and it might even be tough on CC if the fans just don't get it. If he soft tosses to SS one inning and comes up and strikes out the next in the middle of a not so sporty offensive return to Fenway will that just become even more pressure on him. Lets face it, he does not respond well to that sort of pressure. We have already seen that. One reason I posted during spring training that I wanted CC to come back under the best possible circumstances for him to succeed was for that exact reason. Much water has gone over the dam since then but unfortunately now he is coming back under way less than optimal circumstances.

 

What the hell though....at this point to me it is just another facet of the 2012 season and I would rather see it and see what happens than not.

[redsoxbeatz]

More likely Doubront and Morales/Cook/Acquisition X (Garza?)

 

Garza would be great if the plans for BB&L to follow their FIP pan out.

 

At the very least the second half looks juicy.

[Guest]

So let's say that Lester and Beckett return and throw consistent with their FIP's. And Buchholz continues to throw to his 3.35 era like he had for his past 8 starts.

 

Those aren't outrageous projections by any means. You are telling me that you are so against this teams chances that you wouldnt want Crawford to be in LF in the event that we have a 1 game playoff against, say, the Angels? Or are you so sold on the fact that a 2.5 game deficit is just an unbearable amount of games to overcome? Do you truly think that with Ellsbury, Pedroia, and Crawford at the top of the order, the Orioles, Tigers, A's, Rays, and Angels are so much better that the Sox can't pick up 2 or 3 games on them?

 

Now, I assume you agree that this team is capable of making a WC slot, but you don't like the odds of winning a WC game because of our pitchers. Well, let's take another look at how Crawford does against other teams aces.

 

Angels: Weaver: .333/.333/.600

Tigers: Verlander: .310/.310/.310

Guardians: Masterson: .267/.333/.667

Rays: Price: 0-9

Orioles: Not gonna happen, but Crawford hasn't faced Hammel.

 

Point being, if the Sox make the 2nd wild card, there's a very good chance that Crawford can play a big role in that WC game. So why the heck wouldn't we wait and at least give our best shot to win this year? Because you want Crawford to be back in January?!? That makes zero sense.

 

So let's say that Lester and Beckett return and throw consistent with their FIP's. And Buchholz continues to throw to his 3.35 era like he had for his past 8 starts.

 

Lets say that they throw the same ERAs that they have been throwing up all year for us. I am not a big fan of FIP. I prefer ERA or ERA+ to measure the contribution of a pitcher. Both of those two suck. Thats why I don't think we have any significant chance at a ring this year.

As long as Crawford is ready to play by spring training next year he can get his surgery whenever he wants. I don't want to see him on the DL to start next year.

[redsoxbeatz]

Each starter should get about 3.5 starts before/by the deadline.

 

If our pitchers perform to their FIPs than... keep crawford in there.

 

If not... send him to TJ and give more farm kids a chance.

[yeszir]

Just bought tickets to see the White Sox next week and give Youk the ovation he deserves.

[mvp 78]

He'll be boooed and yooouked. It'll be tough to tell it apart.

[yeszir]

You really think he's gonna get booed?

[Laser Show]

I think some fans will boo because of his lack of productivity this year and then going to Chicago and turning it on.

[yeszir]

Of COURSE he was going to do that in Chicago. I don't know why that's a surprise. Next year everyone will be saying "Ben the Boob traded our best player GRAAHHARSRAEKEAKRS".

[mvp 78]

You really think he's gonna get booed?

 

Maybe 10-20% boooos?

[SoxFanForsyth]

Of COURSE he was going to do that in Chicago. I don't know why that's a surprise. Next year everyone will be saying "Ben the Boob traded our best player GRAAHHARSRAEKEAKRS".

 

I love boobs, so I don't see the negative connotation involved when calling him Ben the Boob.

[Bellhorn04]

I love boobs' date=' so I don't see the negative connotation involved when calling him Ben the Boob.[/quote']

 

If he makes one more bad trade he'll be called Ben Dover.

[Guest]

Maybe 10-20% boooos?

 

No one should be booing Youkilis. He was in an impossible situation, what with Middlebrooks nipping at his heels.

[redsoxbeatz]

No one should be booing Youkilis. He was in an impossible situation' date=' what with Middlebrooks nipping at his heels.[/quote']

 

Though the Red Sox could have kept him on the bench. But, now Sox have more $ for future.

 

It was a toughie. He doesn't deserve a booing, he deserves a standing ovation for what he did for Red Sox earlier in his career. Though, it sure does f***ing suck that we got dirt for him. Especially with how he is producing now. If it were me, I would never had pulled the trigger on it if I knew Chi Sox were handing me a bag of s*** for him.

 

Oh well. WMB is pretty good, no Trout, but he's been producing, he's young, and it's a change which the Red Sox needed some of. I wonder if Xander can steal the position from him in the future.

 

I think Adrian Gonzalez is going to bounce back for the second half, too. It is very strange to see no power out of him, at all, but he is swinging at more pitches out of the zone and making more contact with them. See:http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1908&position=1B#pfxplatediscipline

Another interesting statistic I found on SBNation:

BB rates

 

2008: 11%

2009: 17%

2010: 13%

2011: 10%

2012: 6%

 

BB rates, excluding IBB

 

2008: 8%

2009: 15%

2010: 9%

2011: 8%

2012: 6%

 

No protection in SD it seems. And also more contact with pitches out of the zone. I think we will see a more patient Adrian Gonzalez in the second half. With Ortiz performing at his current level, Adrian coming back to his earth, and Ellsbury & Crawford [potentially] performing at their previous levels of success that lineup is pretty crazy. Cherry should really go get us Hamels [and Upton] if he can.

[Laser Show]

Though the Red Sox could have kept him on the bench. But, now Sox have more $ for future.

 

It was a toughie. He doesn't deserve a booing, he deserves a standing ovation for what he did for Red Sox earlier in his career. Though, it sure does f***ing suck that we got dirt for him. Especially with how he is producing now. If it were me, I would never had pulled the trigger on it if I knew Chi Sox were handing me a bag of s*** for him.

 

Oh well. WMB is pretty good, no Trout, but he's been producing, he's young, and it's a change which the Red Sox needed some of. I wonder if Xander can steal the position from him in the future.

 

God I hope not. I want both of them in the lineup for a long time.

[redsoxbeatz]

God I hope not. I want both of them in the lineup for a long time.

 

But isn't Xander supposed to grow out of the SS position? Too big or something.

[SoxFanForsyth]

But isn't Xander supposed to grow out of the SS position? Too big or something.

 

Yeah, a lot like HanRam. HanRam and ARod were supposed to be too big to play SS too. Usually the move is made around late 20s, 27-28 timeframe. He's got plenty of time to prove he doesn't need to move. And if they do move him before hand, he can play a corner OF spot as well.

[Brennan]

Whoa! Another negative post from Brennan?

 

Cool. I thought you were going to say something constructive but evidently you are still the same annoying poster as you always have been. Now I can see why all of the regulars have left this site because of train wrecks like you.

 

 

 

 

 

Wrong yet again MVP, here is Ssf's personal critique on me BEFORE the post you quoted. Do you think that people can't read back in a thread to see what's going on? Do you think we are all that stupid. Just drop it, you guys with the games of semantics. It bores me.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Whoa! we're gonna turn it around with C.C. and Ells now?

 

Cool, I thought they had spent alot of time on the DL but evidently they must have successfully trained to become ace pitchers in the ALE, now I can see why everyone is pinning their hopes on these two turning this trainwreck around.

 

My bad.

 

Whoa! Another negative post from Brennan?

 

Cool. I thought you were going to say something constructive but evidently you are still the same annoying poster as you always have been. Now I can see why all of the regulars have left this site because of train wrecks like you.

 

You're wrong Bennan. See how my reply is mocking the format of your initial comment?

 

So, you're wrong, there's really no other way of putting it.

 

Edit: also, you can just go to page 2. I'm not quite sure who you're trying to fool here but it's not going to work.

[Brennan]

You're wrong Bennan. See how my reply is mocking the format of your initial comment?

 

So, you're wrong, there's really no other way of putting it.

 

Edit: also, you can just go to page 2. I'm not quite sure who you're trying to fool here but it's not going to work.

 

 

 

 

 

Semantics yet again. Was my initial post sarcastic? Yes, it seemed like a good way to get my point across that PITCHING was the number one problem.

 

Did I single you or anyone else and personally insult them?

 

No.

 

Did you single me out and personally attack me?

 

Of course you did, it's your M.O.

[mvp 78]

Wrong yet again MVP' date=' here is Ssf's personal critique on me BEFORE the post you quoted. Do you think that people can't read back in a thread to see what's going on? Do you think we are all that stupid. Just drop it, you guys with the games of semantics. It bores me.[/quote']

 

What SFF said.

 

I'm not playing games and you clearly have no idea what semantics means.

 

If it's boring, I guess you'll stop responding. Works for me.

[yeszir]

I will now start using Ben the Boob as a compliment

[redsoxbeatz]

Adrian Gonzalez... i love these picture stats

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2012/0710/bos_e_gonzalezchart_300.jpg

 

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2012/0710/bos_e_gonzochart12_300.jpg

[Station 13]

Adrian Gonzalez... i love these picture stats

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2012/0710/bos_e_gonzalezchart_300.jpg

 

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2012/0710/bos_e_gonzochart12_300.jpg

 

The bluezone is huge for 2012....quit chasing so many bad pitches or swing at the first pitch.

[NativeBostonian]

The bluezone is huge for 2012....quit chasing so many bad pitches or swing at the first pitch.

 

When you start doing that, it’s usually in your head. When Gonzo starts to walk more, then we will see him hit the ball better.

[redsoxfan3]

Ellsbury CF

Nava LF

Ortiz DH

Gonzalez 1B

Middlebrooks 3B

Saltalamacchia C

Sweeney RF

Aviles SS

Ciriaco 2B

 

Morales P

[SoxFanForsyth]

Ellsbury CF

Nava LF

Ortiz DH

Gonzalez 1B

Middlebrooks 3B

Saltalamacchia C

Sweeney RF

Aviles SS

Ciriaco 2B

 

Morales P

 

What a freaking improved lineup over that shitstorm against the Yankees. This team is about to go on a sick run.