2012 Catch-All Trade Deadline Thread

[SoxSport]

As I mentioned in another thread, the Rangers just lost Colby Lewis for the season and are a good bet to swoop in and get Josh Johnson while Cherington is counting his play toys. That Crawford for Hanley plus Bell deal is looking better by the day--if only for a change in bodies. Beckett has to go, too. If the FO really did nix that Crawford deal, it just shows you where they are about the need for change.

[SoxSport]

Actually, the first thing the sox need to do is fire McClure. That guy has no history of greatness as a pitching coach and has been at the helm of one of the worst rotational collapses in sox recent memory

 

Lucchino made a terrible mistake letting the front office pick some of V's coaches. And V made a mistake taking the job under those circumstances. The real problem with the Sox is the front office--not the manager. Tito was just a front office guy. Getting rid of him and Epstein did not solve the problem. The holdovers are still there, trying to run the show. And Lucchino has given them too long a leash.

 

I believe this is what is really wrong with the Red Sox. The players know it, and it has affected their play. They know V doesn't have a lot of authority.

[User Name]

And the Valentine apologists continue their march.

[a700hitter]

I don't think Cherrington has been given enough time to know what he is or isn't, even if so many here are ready to jump down his throat. You can't make an injured, uninspired team healthy and inspired.

 

He could fire the pitching coach though. Not sure what he has to offer.

How much more time does ownership give him. Their franchises is getting damaged. It doesn't take a lot to ruin a reputation. What it took them years to build up, they are allowing to be torn down at an accelerated pace. This franchise is no longer the jewel of baseball or the envy of the world. It's an afterthought, even in Boston.

[SemperFi Sox]

Cafardo says Red Sox were still involved with Marlins last night about possible Hanley trade.

[jacksonianmarch]

I wonder if the loss of Lewis makes a Beckett trade to Texas more of a possibility

[DocHolliday]

I wonder if the loss of Lewis makes a Beckett trade to Texas more of a possibility

 

Not to mention Oswalt's health issues and inconsistency. Holland is very similar to Beckett in terms of being inconsistent each time out. He usually has 1 or 2 awful innings (at a smaller scale than Beckett has had) and is lights out over the rest of his outing. Darvish looks a lot like Dice K in his first season where he is benefiting from the league not being familiar with him but struggling with control in the majority of his outings. Feliz will be returning to the bullpen when he is back in a few weeks.

 

With Hamilton and Napoli due to go to Free Agency after the season and the inevitable decline that will come with the aging of part of the team's core (Young, Beltre, even Kinsler is into his 30s), it may be that this year could be the Rangers best shot at winning a World Series. Yes, they have a promising farm system. But who knows if all of their prospects will be able to replicate what the current group has done to this point in future years?

 

There is a potential opportunity here to take advantage of their situation and the market conditions as well as begin part of the cultural change needed in this clubhouse. I would not be surprised if Beckett were to turn it around in a new setting. But it has become clear that he is not capable of consistently doing that here as evident from the majority of his time in Boston.

[Laser Show]

I wonder if the loss of Lewis makes a Beckett trade to Texas more of a possibility

 

Definitely a possibility, but who would they give Boston that could make an impact in 2013?

[Orange Juiced]

I wonder if the loss of Lewis makes a Beckett trade to Texas more of a possibility

 

Trade Josh Beckett and Mark Melancon to Texas for Alexi Ogando and a prospect ranked 10-15 in their organization, like a Cody Buckel. Beckett immediately fills a need for them (starting pitcher) and Melancon's recent #s have been more than adequate to help fill Ogando's role in the bullpen. The Sox, meanwhile, get a guy who has proven to be an effective starter (13-8, 3.51 era, 1.14 whip last year as he started 29 out of 31 games) and is just 28 years old. Plus, he makes peanuts and wouldn't be a free agent until 2017.

 

I would think that Beckett would waive his 10/5 rights to do this, for many obvious reasons. The Sox get a good arm in return, shave a ton of salary, and pick up a potentially useful prospect in return. They have plenty of bullpen arms to spare at this point to survive the loss of those low-leverage innings Melancon pitches.

[jacksonianmarch]

There is no way they move Ogando in a deal like that. Ogando very well may be in their rotation next season with Oswalt on his way out and Lewis likely on his way out as well. And Ogando is better than Beckett.

 

You have to see the writing on the wall here and determine what the sox will need more than anything else. And that is flexibility. Beckett's $16.5 mil for $5 mil of production handcuffs the s*** out of the sox, who want to stay under the $189 mil cap. Getting Beckett completely off the books will help more than paying his full boat and getting a prospect back. If you lose Beckett and Ortiz by this offseason, you could replace Ortiz with Lavarnway and take that $30 mil or so and use about $22 of that per season to get a real ace like Greinke or Hamels.

[Bellhorn04]

Definitely a possibility' date=' but who would they give Boston that could make an impact in 2013?[/quote']

 

Having Beckett's 17 million salary off the books might be impact enough for 2013.

[Orange Juiced]

There is no way they move Ogando in a deal like that. Ogando very well may be in their rotation next season with Oswalt on his way out and Lewis likely on his way out as well. And Ogando is better than Beckett.

 

Why hasn't Ogando been in their rotation this year then? It's not like they haven't had a need. That's why they went after Oswalt so hard. There must be a reason.

 

You have to see the writing on the wall here and determine what the sox will need more than anything else. And that is flexibility. Beckett's $16.5 mil for $5 mil of production handcuffs the s*** out of the sox' date=' who want to stay under the $189 mil cap. Getting Beckett completely off the books will help more than paying his full boat and getting a prospect back. If you lose Beckett and Ortiz by this offseason, you could replace Ortiz with Lavarnway and take that $30 mil or so and use about $22 of that per season to get a real ace like Greinke or Hamels.[/quote']

 

I'd be fine with my proposed deal even if the Red Sox paid his entire 2012 salary. They need to clear space for 2013. If the Sox just want to be rid of him and get nothing back, then simply put him on waivers and let someone claim him (someone would). If you're going to let him go, you sure want something back. The more you pay of his salary, the bigger piece you should rightly expect to get in return.

 

Look, we are sour on Beckett and understandably so. But the guy has big-time ability. Just last year he was a top-5 pitcher in the AL. And he does have serious playoff pedigree (2003, 2007 come to mind). So I'm sure Texas would be more than happy to have him on their roster. Just a question of what they'd be willing to give up to get him.

 

We tend to think that the Sox would get nothing but crap back for guys like Beckett and Lester, etc. But the reality is that, while it may indeed be the case, it's also good to remember that we see deals happen all the time where contenders trade really good stuff for that "last missing piece" that gives them the great shot at the playoffs. There are lots of teams out there that could use a Josh Beckett.

[jacksonianmarch]

OJ, if Beckett went on waivers, he'd pass without much difficulty, IMO. I highly doubt someone would want the 2 yrs $33 mil left on his deal after the s*** he's thrown together this yr with diminished stuff.

[jacksonianmarch]

Ogando has been in the pen because Feliz beat him out in spring training. Then Feliz went down and they needed another body. Rather than reverse ramp up Ogando, they got a short term fix. I can almost guarantee that you will see Ogando in the rotation next yr

[Orange Juiced]

OJ' date=' if Beckett went on waivers, he'd pass without much difficulty, IMO. I highly doubt someone would want the 2 yrs $33 mil left on his deal after the s*** he's thrown together this yr with diminished stuff.[/quote']

 

You think? Well, you may be right. I think he's been better than his raw stats might indicate.

 

- 16 starts

- 13 (81%) have been 6+ ip

- 10 (63%) have yielded 3 or fewer runs

- 13 (81%) have yielded 4 or fewer earned runs

 

If you have a pitcher with his playoff pedigree that is still just 32 years old, and you had good reason to believe that every time he goes out there there's a better than 80% chance that he'll yield 4 or fewer earned runs, and you have an offense like the Texas Rangers, you don't think that kind of pitcher, even with that contract (which they can afford), would interest them?

[jacksonianmarch]

I think the player will interest them, but to what degree? If they are gonna move one of their prime time prospects (Profar, Olt) then they are getting a much better player. Even if they move a guy like Feliz or Ogando, they are gonna do it for a much better player. Beckett's numbers this yr are deceiving, and the Rangers are gonna need a guy who can be reliable. He has given innings for the most part, but he has been an absolute abortion of late and his velo is down. He isnt the same pitcher from 2007

[Bellhorn04]

You think? Well, you may be right. I think he's been better than his raw stats might indicate.

 

- 16 starts

- 13 (81%) have been 6+ ip

- 10 (63%) have yielded 3 or fewer runs

- 13 (81%) have yielded 4 or fewer earned runs

 

If you have a pitcher with his playoff pedigree that is still just 32 years old, and you had good reason to believe that every time he goes out there there's a better than 80% chance that he'll yield 4 or fewer earned runs, and you have an offense like the Texas Rangers, you don't think that kind of pitcher, even with that contract (which they can afford), would interest them?

 

I'm sure they'd love to pick him up for the rest of this year, but the $33 million for the next two years doesn't look so good right now. Maybe if the Sox ate $10 million of it.

[jacksonianmarch]

I am wondering if Cherries is on the phone with the Rangers about eating the entire nut right now, though. There is no better time to try than when a team with title aspirations has a huge need that needs to be filled within 7 days. They might be desperate enough

[Orange Juiced]

I am wondering if Cherries is on the phone with the Rangers about eating the entire nut right now' date=' though. There is no better time to try than when a team with title aspirations has a huge need that needs to be filled within 7 days. They might be desperate enough[/quote']

 

Given that they've come *so* close the past two seasons, they may just be willing to bite the bullet and add that piece. I don't think there's a person alive (among Red Sox fans, anyway) that doesn't think that there's a pretty good chance that Beckett would pitch well for Texas. I would expect him to, actually. Nice story, that. Two-time WS champ and home-state hero Josh Beckett comes to Texas and helps deliver that long-sought-after championship.

[jacksonianmarch]

If that were to happen, though, expect nearly nothing in return. Which I think the sox would jump at right about now

[Orange Juiced]

If that were to happen' date=' though, expect nearly nothing in return. Which I think the sox would jump at right about now[/quote']

 

You're probably right. I just find it amazing that a guy who had a fantastic year last year (which he did, despite September) and who is just 32 (we're not talking about a 38 year old) would get the Sox basically *nothing* in return.

 

The Braves apparently agreed to a deal with the Cubs for Ryan Dempster, giving up Randall Delgado, a really nice pitching prospect who has already had some experience in the majors. Dempster is having an absolute career year (2.11 era) but is 35 and is coming off a year last year where he put up a 4.80 era and a 1.45 whip. The guy is an ok pitcher having a ridiculous career year. And he's making $14 million this year. So he can get back a quality talent like Randall Delgado, but Josh Beckett can't?

 

Again, you're probably right, but this seems to me to be just very strange.

[jacksonianmarch]

It's the way things work. Dempster is a rental player who is riding a hot streak. The Braves hope his hot streak continues through the rest of the yr so they can make the POs and forget about last yr entirely

[Orange Juiced]

It looks like the Sox are in on Hanley Ramirez, according to rotoworld.

 

I have no idea what they would offer (earlier reports included Carl Crawford). Would the Sox and Marlins agree to a deal like this: Crawford + Iglesias + another top prospect for Hanley + Josh Johnson?

 

I would do that in a heartbeat if I was Boston, depending on that last prospect. It would give them a better chance this year and it would get them out of the Crawford contract. Yes, they'd be taking on Hanley's huge contract too, but his ends sooner.

[jung]

HanRam would likely be more of a hitting threat in Boston as others have mentioned. Frankly, the thought of seeing either guy (Crawford or HanRam) in Boston for years is not very appealing.

[Orange Juiced]

HanRam would likely be more of a hitting threat in Boston as others have mentioned. Frankly' date=' the thought of seeing either guy (Crawford or HanRam) in Boston for years is not very appealing.[/quote']

 

Hanley's contract:

2012 - $15 mil

2013 - $15.5 mil

2014 - $16 mil

 

Johnson's contract:

2012 - $13.75 mil

2013 - $13.75 mil

 

Crawford's contract:

2012 - $19.5 mil

2013 - $20 mil

2014 - $20 mil

2015 - $20.5 mil

2016 - $20.75 mil

2017 - $21 mil

 

So it would cost the Sox more in 2012 and 2013.

 

2012

Hanley + Johnson = $28.75 mil (obviously pro-rated)

Crawford = $ 19.5 mil (again, pro-rated)

 

2013

Hanley + Johnson = $29.25 mil

Crawford = $20 mil

 

But then they're out from Johnson's contract. And then after 2014, they're out from Hanley's, but there would still be three years, $62.25 million left for Crawford. So I think this trade would help the Sox this year and for the future.

[Orange Juiced]

It would mean this lineup, most likely:

 

CF Ellsbury

2b Pedroia

DH Ortiz

LF Ross

1b Gonzalez

SS Ramirez

3b Middlebrooks

C Saltalamacchia

RF Kalish/Nava

 

That's a pretty stacked lineup. And the rotation would be: Johnson, Lester, Beckett, Buchholz, and Doubront. In theory anyway, a really good rotation. I wonder if adding a guy like Johnson would help stabilize Beckett and Lester some. Who knows.

[SoxSport]

Cafardo says Red Sox were still involved with Marlins last night about possible Hanley trade.

 

This is the type of "bold" move that unbold Ben should make, when it looks like the Titanic might be sinking.

 

Hanley is listed as 6 ft 3, 229 lbs. He's put on some weight the last few years, and has eaten his way out of SS. More like a fullback now vs a halfback when he got traded. I have a feeling if he loses 10-15 lbs and gets conditioned properly, he might be a SS again--and improve his stroke, as well.

 

With Hanley, it's salary for salary. No team will take a chance on him for prospects. That's why dumping Crawford for him in a package looks very attractive. It would get the Sox out from under one of those god-awful contracts given by Theo when he was drunk.

[SoxSport]

Hanley's contract:

2012 - $15 mil

2013 - $15.5 mil

2014 - $16 mil

 

Johnson's contract:

2012 - $13.75 mil

2013 - $13.75 mil

 

Crawford's contract:

2012 - $19.5 mil

2013 - $20 mil

2014 - $20 mil

2015 - $20.5 mil

2016 - $20.75 mil

2017 - $21 mil

 

So it would cost the Sox more in 2012 and 2013.

 

2012

Hanley + Johnson = $28.75 mil (obviously pro-rated)

Crawford = $ 19.5 mil (again, pro-rated)

 

2013

Hanley + Johnson = $29.25 mil

Crawford = $20 mil

 

But then they're out from Johnson's contract. And then after 2014, they're out from Hanley's, but there would still be three years, $62.25 million left for Crawford. So I think this trade would help the Sox this year and for the future.

 

Doubt they'll trade JJ. The best way to get Hanley is in a package with Bell--for CC.

The Marlins already figured that one out. Bell and Hanley both have the same problem--too much weight.

 

Lucchino would have to pull off this type of deal. It's too big for Cherington to swallow.

[Laser Show]

As I said before, pull the trigger on big deals. But only if it doesn't inhibit our ability to get a top starter either this season or this offseason.

[redsoxfan3]

Doubt they'll trade JJ. The best way to get Hanley is in a package with Bell--for CC.

The Marlins already figured that one out. Bell and Hanley both have the same problem--too much weight.

 

Lucchino would have to pull off this type of deal. It's too big for Cherington to swallow.

 

It is stupid to even consider Crawford for Bell and Ramirez. Crawford has had some injuries, but if he can stay healthy, he is a big part of this team. Ramirez is only hitting .246 and Bell has a 6.05 ERA. That trade would not be worth it in my opinion.

 

Also in other news, Lillibridge was traded to the Guardians for Jose De La Torre. At least we dumped Lillibridge, but we got back a 26 year old minor leaguer. His career minor league ERA is a 2.86 in 6 seasons. I don't think there is much upside to him because of his age, but at least we got rid of Lillibridge.