2012 Catch-All Trade Deadline Thread

[example1]

They knew what these guys cost. If they changed their mind since they said they would be aggressive' date=' they should be honest that they changed their minds because the do not believe chances for this 2012 team are not good and would not justify the cost. They are not saying that. They are still telling us that they think they have a competitive team, and they are just blaming the cost. The cost was known weeks ago. They are just truth challenged. They will not admit publicly what they already know-- that the team has no chance. If they stopped the charade, they could get started with rebuilding by shipping guys out.[/quote']

 

I guess I don't see any reason for them to come out and be completely transparent with the fans at every twist and turn. Don't get me wrong, I understand what you are saying. We all know they should be sellers at this point. Ben coming out and saying "we will see this weekend whether we are sellers or not" is either stupid, or disingenuous. I'm hoping it is disingenuous, and would understand it quite a bit more if it were. Hell, the Sox have to sell tickets and they are better off if they keep fans engaged. You know it and I know it. It's a bit insulting to the avid fan, but it is what it is.

 

If we are looking for proof that it is stupid (i.e., that they truly believe they are in contention) then we have to be aware that the Sox aren't going to just come out and say that they are actively shopping every player on their roster. That doesn't do them any good if, say, Beckett is being shopped at $.60 on the dollar, and no deal materializes. That just looks bad for the team... so it's a delicate situation, and I get that.

 

If they are ACTUALLY waiting until the end of the series to actively shop these guys behind the scenes, then I will be shocked and really, really disappointed.

 

As for Greinke, I just can't imagine a situation where they would have wanted him, unless they were fighting with the Yankees for 1st or something. They can still be "aggressive" and not be aggressively pursuing the most expensive options. Both options are possible simultaneously.

[Divinity]

Greinke has mental issues, he would almost certainly cracked under the pressure of playing in Boston.

 

I wish the Sox did acquire him, watching him play here for the next two month's would've been hilarious.

[jacksonianmarch]

If I were Cherries......

 

I'd deal David Ortiz to the White Sox and get 2 prospects in return, top 10 in their system. Ortiz would move Dunn to the outfield, but would make their lineup ridiculous while their pitching got healthy.

 

I'd deal Ross to the Pirates and try to pry some of their pitching depth away. You won't get Taillon or Cole with him, but they are deep in prospects there and could definitely use a bat for the stretch run. Also, an OF of McCutchen, Ross, and Marte would be pretty nice.

 

I'd deal Beckett to the Braves, eat a shitload of salary and try to get them to include Randall Delgado. I'd even throw in a top prospect to get him (maybe someone like Brentz). That kid has a high ceiling and is big league ready right now. You could rebuild on the fly if he starts to get it.

 

I'd look to move all pen pieces but keep Morales. Miller, Atchison, Padilla, et al. No pen piece is off limits, but obviously a guy like Aceves would cost more. Morales would slot into Aaron Cook's spot in the rotation.

 

I'd move Aaron Cook to a team like the Dodgers. You wont get much in return, but their rotation is trouble in the 4 and 5 slots, and they are relying on Cris Capuano to avoid a meltdown, which isnt likely.

 

I'd deal Mike Aviles for anything. His slash line is really the kind of player he really is, but his clutch numbers this yr might artificially jump his value. Take advantage now, bring up Iggy and start fresh

 

I'd also trade Salty to a team in dire need of offense. Maybe include him in the Ross deal to the Pirates and try to see if you could pry a guy like Taillon with that kind of haul. This leaves the sox leverage to sign Shoppach to an extension as your every day catcher. The guy can hit at times, but is a solid defensive catcher, and his time with the club would actually make your pitchers a little better. It would also allow Lavarnway to come up, DH most of the time, but catch when Shop needed a day or two off

 

This would leave you with...

 

C- Shoppach

1B- Gonzalez

2B- Pedroia

3B- Middlebrooks

SS- Iglesias

LF- Crawford

CF- Ellsbury

RF- Kalish

DH- Lavarnway

 

SP1- Lester

SP2- Buchholz

SP3- Morales

SP4- Doubront

SP5- Delgado

 

It wouldnt clear a lot of money for next yr, but it would definitely inject some youth and some prospects into a system without a ton of depth behind the bigger farm system names.

[a700hitter]

I guess I don't see any reason for them to come out and be completely transparent with the fans at every twist and turn. Don't get me wrong, I understand what you are saying. We all know they should be sellers at this point. Ben coming out and saying "we will see this weekend whether we are sellers or not" is either stupid, or disingenuous. I'm hoping it is disingenuous, and would understand it quite a bit more if it were. Hell, the Sox have to sell tickets and they are better off if they keep fans engaged. You know it and I know it. It's a bit insulting to the avid fan, but it is what it is.

 

If we are looking for proof that it is stupid (i.e., that they truly believe they are in contention) then we have to be aware that the Sox aren't going to just come out and say that they are actively shopping every player on their roster. That doesn't do them any good if, say, Beckett is being shopped at $.60 on the dollar, and no deal materializes. That just looks bad for the team... so it's a delicate situation, and I get that.

 

If they are ACTUALLY waiting until the end of the series to actively shop these guys behind the scenes, then I will be shocked and really, really disappointed.

 

As for Greinke, I just can't imagine a situation where they would have wanted him, unless they were fighting with the Yankees for 1st or something. They can still be "aggressive" and not be aggressively pursuing the most expensive options. Both options are possible simultaneously.

I agree with you that transparency is not required as to whether they are selling or buying. They have to keep the fannies in the seats. I do get a chuckle when year after year they feign surprise at the cost. When I call it a lame ass excuse, people challenge me on it by arguing that the cost was too high. That is not what is lame about the FO. What is lame is that they engage in this ridiculous routine almost every year and they feed the fans the excuse that they were caught off guard regarding the cost. I laugh at their deception, but I fully expect it. Some teams are even more deceptive. A few years back, the Mets put out the rumor that they had made an offer for Roy Halladay that the Blue Jays turned down. They named names. When asked about the offer, the Blue Jay GM stated that he had not been contacted by the Mets. I am amazed that fans accept the excuses and explanations of the FO at face value. They play us for fools.

[SoxSport]

The old veterans never get traded or dropped from this team. They are wedded to the team--even after they start slipping. Timlin, Wakefield, Tek... others. That has hurt their player development. Just another nail in the coffin. You can point to a lot of reasons why this organization is now a loser. It's possible they could fall further if more management changes aren't made. My guess is Henry will sell first.

[example1]

I agree with you that transparency is not required as to whether they are selling or buying. They have to keep the fannies in the seats. I do get a chuckle when year after year they feign surprise at the cost. When I call it a lame ass excuse' date=' people challenge me on it by arguing that the cost was too high. That is not what is lame about the FO. What is lame is that they engage in this ridiculous routine almost every year and they feed the fans the excuse that they were caught off guard regarding the cost. I laugh at their deception, but I fully expect it. Some teams are even more deceptive. A few years back, the Mets put out the rumor that they had made an offer for Roy Halladay that the Blue Jays turned down. They named names. When asked about the offer, the Blue Jay GM stated that he had not been contacted by the Mets. I am amazed that fans accept the excuses and explanations of the FO at face value. They play us for fools.[/quote']

 

I think there is genuinely a chance that the Sox show up on the market and are surprised not by the asking price, but by what other teams are willing to part with. Every year there are a few teams who are more desperate than the Sox to win this year. I'm not sure that's good or bad, but it just is.

 

Another reason surprise could be genuine this year is that despite the new CBA, the Angels (and other teams too, perhaps) gave up pieces as if Greinke were returning them draft picks if they let him go.

 

The angels prospects were numbers 2, 4 and 9 in their pre-season rankings (BA). That's the equivalent of Bogaerts, Ranaudo, and Lavarnway for 2 months of Greinke. That would be too much.

 

Let's put it this way: Sox organizational culture is pretty conservative with prospects. They may justify that approach externally by highlighting just how expensive these guys would be to acquire. Frankly, I'm not upset about not getting Greinke. The only substantial prospect-for-star trade I remember recently was VMart and that one resulted in a break even trade IMO, not a coup on either side... Especially considering the draft picks the sox landed.

[DeadHorseSociety]

-Lester and Ells to ATL for Delgado, Tehran and prospects

 

-Crawford and a prospect to Miami for Reyes

 

-Beckett, Ross and $12m to Texas for a package of prospects that include Martin Perez, Leonys Martin and/or Cody Buckel.

 

-Offer Buchholz and Middlebrooks for Felix Hernandez. Can't hurt to ask.

 

 

 

 

Ben needs to shake things up for the future, if this team goes into 2013 with a rotation of Lester, Buchholz, Beckett, Lackey and Doubront the little interest ppl have in this team will vanish.

[Palodios]

I agree with you that transparency is not required as to whether they are selling or buying. They have to keep the fannies in the seats. I do get a chuckle when year after year they feign surprise at the cost. When I call it a lame ass excuse' date=' people challenge me on it by arguing that the cost was too high. That is not what is lame about the FO. What is lame is that they engage in this ridiculous routine almost every year and they feed the fans the excuse that they were caught off guard regarding the cost. I laugh at their deception, but I fully expect it. Some teams are even more deceptive. A few years back, the Mets put out the rumor that they had made an offer for Roy Halladay that the Blue Jays turned down. They named names. When asked about the offer, the Blue Jay GM stated that he had not been contacted by the Mets. I am amazed that fans accept the excuses and explanations of the FO at face value. They play us for fools.[/quote']

 

They always try to to get a good deal, but the reality is that most of the time, the cost of trade deadline deals is too high. Gagne cost David Murphey. Victor Martinez cost Masterson. Most of the time, buyers get hosed, but in a rare occasion, you steal a good deal like when they pulled Wagner a few years back.

 

I'd rather them make smart moves than play desperate-- unless they're filling a major hole during a World Series run, like they should have last year.

[example1]

WEEI web page cites reports that Sox aren't going to part with Cody Ross. Ross is probably the weathervane on whether they are in sell mode. However, I'm optimistic that maybe they will actually resign him for a 2-3 year deal. He is a good fit.

 

Or if they play their cards right they land a good prospect from Texas for Ross. I would just hate to see Texas sign him longterm and improve their team in the process.

[Designated Hater]

Cody Ross is a good player, but he was good in Florida and San Francisco and both teams ended up letting him walk. I think there's something that we're not seeing with this guy. He's injury prone. Is he good in the clubhouse? He's a decent defender based on what I've seen, but I would like to see the stats.

 

The Red Sox don't have chips. What they do have is money and they are going to have to eat a LOT of it to get rid of the cancers they have in the clubhouse.

[example1]

They don't have money either. At least not any that can easily be spent without significant penalty.

[Station 13]

Rent Ross to some team. Does San Fran want him back?

 

Get prospects. Re-sign Ross in FA. makes a ton of sense.

 

Also rent Ortiz to the Rangers, they need a bat that instill fear/respect with all pitchers. This probably unlikely to happen. Trading Ortiz hurts their PR department too much. But I would too re-sign him this offseason.

[Palodios]

Player A

2011 2.82 ERA, 1.04 WHIP, .217 BAA

2012 4.52 ERA, 1.46 WHIP, .281 BAA

 

 

Player B

2011 2.89 ERA, 1.02 WHIP, .211 BAA

2012 4.57 ERA, 1.27 WHIP, .263 BAA

 

 

Player A: Age 31. 9 million option in 2013, 12 million club opion in 2014. Age 31. Will cost two elite prospects.

 

Player B: Age 32. 16 guaranteed in 2013 and 2014, but will likely bite 6 million a year.

 

As you may have figured out, one player is James Shields, and the other is Josh Beckett. The Red Sox need to put other teams into perspective, and see what they can do with this situation.

[Designated Hater]

They don't have money either. At least not any that can easily be spent without significant penalty.

 

Don't believe that for a second. They have plenty of money. They are just cheap.

[Thunder]

WEEI web page cites reports that Sox aren't going to part with Cody Ross. Ross is probably the weathervane on whether they are in sell mode. However, I'm optimistic that maybe they will actually resign him for a 2-3 year deal. He is a good fit.

 

Or if they play their cards right they land a good prospect from Texas for Ross. I would just hate to see Texas sign him longterm and improve their team in the process.

 

I have grown very fond of Ross and don't see why the front office would consider trading him.

[jung]

They don't have money that they will spend.

 

Ross is a free agent at the end of this season. So it really does not matter if they rent him to a team for the remainder of this season. He will be as available to the Sox as he will be to anybody else if they want to sign him again and bring him back here.

 

The truth is you have to make really bad pitches to him for him to shine. You have to deposit the ball middle of the plate and in and up and he will kill the ball. Keep the ball away from there and he is toast. Granted all hitters are mistake pitch hitters...I often make that argument myself but his "Go" zone is pretty small and his "No" zone is pretty large and he does not really even have a "Maybe" zone.

 

He is however likely more suited to Fenway than many of the places he could play because he can loft the ball and pull which makes the Monster a real target for him. But a full season without platooning him would not be a pretty picture and I believe that is why teams can sort of take him or leave him. The Sox would be foolish to keep him if they could really get something for him.

[italstallianion]

I have grown very fond of Ross and don't see why the front office would consider trading him.

 

It depends on what the offer would be, since he's a FA, but it seems like there's a good chance of resigning him for the next season, which he's certainly proved his worth.

 

I feel the same about Shoppach, but if we get a semi-decent prospect offer for either I'm pulling the trigger. Cherington and the FO will find a way to blow it though.

[jacksonianmarch]

Here's the deal, though. Let's say they complete their abortion but keep Ross. They dont get any draft picks for him unless they offer him a 1 yr deal for $12 million. Do you know how quickly he snaps that up? So if he isnt re-signing in Boston, then they can deal him for a need now and then try and get him again on the open market

[italstallianion]

It really comes down to what is being offered. And we'll never know all of the offers from all of the teams. Hell we have enough trouble filtering out rumors from mouthpieces that shouldn't be allowed to own a computer.

[jacksonianmarch]

There is a market for a corner OFer with a .850OPS who is on pace for 25-30HRs. You might not get the best prospect, but you'll get someone of use. There is literally zero point in not trading Ross right now, aside from possibly pissing him off.

[italstallianion]

There is a market for a corner OFer with a .850OPS who is on pace for 25-30HRs. You might not get the best prospect' date=' but you'll get someone of use. There is literally zero point in not trading Ross right now, aside from possibly pissing him off.[/quote']

 

 

I agree with everything except the last point. I think the piece has to be serviceable for the future rather than serviceable for this year. If we can get a semi-decent prospect (more than just a lottery ticket) then by all means pull the trigger. I don't think it'd be worth a pure salary dump especially when he can be serviceable for future years if we have the inside track to sign him. It's not like we're talking an unreasonable salary anyway.

 

Once again, I think it depends on what's being offered.

[Spitball]

There is a market for a corner OFer with a .850OPS who is on pace for 25-30HRs. You might not get the best prospect' date=' but you'll get someone of use.[/quote']

 

Why trade for "someone of use"? It is easy to acquire and develop "someone of use" without giving up Cody Ross. If there is a market for corner outfielders out there, a two month rental of Ross will not bring doodily squat.

 

There is literally zero point in not trading Ross right now' date=' aside from possibly pissing him off.[/quote']

 

There is zero reason to trade Ross. The Red Sox don't need minor league filler. The Red Sox owe it to the fans to put a competitive team on the field.

[Palodios]

There is a market for a corner OFer with a .850OPS who is on pace for 25-30HRs. You might not get the best prospect' date=' but you'll get someone of use. There is literally zero point in not trading Ross right now, aside from possibly pissing him off.[/quote']

 

The best solution may be to trade Beckett and Ross together. That's a significant bump to any NL/pitcher-park team-- a big enough boost that the receiving team will need to give up a quality prospect.

 

You get one good clubhouse guy, and one bad. The extremely cheap cost of Ross (it has to be around 1 million right now) offsets the not so great contract of Beckett, and the Red Sox may be able to get an elite prospect without eating too much salary.

[jung]

That might work. Beckett may have done himself a real favor in that Texas start since I think he really wants outta' this place.

[a700hitter]

They always try to to get a good deal, but the reality is that most of the time, the cost of trade deadline deals is too high. Gagne cost David Murphey. Victor Martinez cost Masterson. Most of the time, buyers get hosed, but in a rare occasion, you steal a good deal like when they pulled Wagner a few years back.

 

I'd rather them make smart moves than play desperate-- unless they're filling a major hole during a World Series run, like they should have last year.

You are just not getting what I am saying at all. I am not disputing whether the cost is or isn't too much. I just don't believe the price for any of these players has changed much in the last two to three weeks, but yet they act surprised now and tell us to forget about an aggressive move. The price hasn't changed. What has changed (and rightly so) is the perception of the teams' chances, but they can't come out and tell us that they don't believe in this team and that it is not worth fixing, because people might stop going to the games. Instead they tell us that the price went too high. That's just BS. They are throwing in the towel while mouthing phony phrases about how they still believe in this team. I think the tag line for the Red Sox 2012 season should be "Sooner or later this team is going to go on a run." Time has run out on that but they keep pushing that nonsense. The truth of this season is that this team will be going home after 162 games, and the FO knows it.

[a700hitter]

The Red Sox are willing to deal from their bullpen and outfield surplus in order to upgrade their starting rotation, sources tell Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports (via Twitter).

^ Oh yeah, this should net a big fish. This could possibly get us an upgrade of the ilk of someone like Rany Wolf.

 

Just tell Wakefield to start working out. He's probably no worse than anyone that they can land with a package of Nava, Sweeney, Albers and Atchison.

[a700hitter]

White Sox Acquire Francisco Liriano

By Mike Axisa [July 28 at 10:01pm CST]

 

The White Sox tried hard to land Zack Greinke before he went to the Angels, so they instead turned to a familiar foe to shore up the rotation. The team announced that they have acquired Francisco Liriano from the Twins for infielder Eduardo Escobar and left-hander Pedro Hernandez.

The White Sox pick up another guy for a bag of balls.

[Emmz]

Ridiculous, my teams blow. f***in' eh.

[MJantomaso]

Sox have shown interest in Jason Vargas from Seattle. I think he would be a nice addition.

[jacksonianmarch]

a nice addition? He is a soft tossing lefty who leads the league in HRs. Add him the Fenway and he's be a pinball machine.