2012 Catch-All Trade Deadline Thread

[SemperFi Sox]

Finally, somebody at the Globe has suggested trading Ellsbury for King Felix. Plus Lester, which is a bit steep, but might do it.

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2012/06/30/felix_hernandez_would_be_king_in_boston/

 

Ellsbury for King Felix is not nearly enough. Especially when Ells is a FA in 2014. Cafardo is a putz.

[Bellhorn04]

Finally, somebody at the Globe has suggested trading Ellsbury for King Felix. Plus Lester, which is a bit steep, but might do it.

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2012/06/30/felix_hernandez_would_be_king_in_boston/

 

To me this proposition doesn't make enough sense for the Mariners.

[example1]

The Mariners would need to get an offensive piece roughly the equivalent of Felix on the mound PLUS at least one pitcher who could project to possibly be an ace in the majors.

 

That would be like, after 2013, trading Will Middlebrooks and Barnes, plus a few prospects who will help in various ways (like Iglesias, Cecchini and/or Lavarnway). A huge package.

 

If the Sox get to the point where they have really good talent in positions that are expendable (SS, OF seem like good candidates) then perhaps something could get done.

[SemperFi Sox]

I'd rather take a chance at Hamels via FA then give up top tier prospects.

[Bellhorn04]

I'd rather take a chance at Hamels via FA then give up top tier prospects.

 

I think this team is done trading top prospects for awhile.

[example1]

I'd rather take a chance at Hamels via FA then give up top tier prospects.

 

It's a hard call. Felix is probably a better pitcher and he's younger. He's also scheduled to be a FA after 2014.

 

I just don't think the Sox will be in any position to be offering 20+m deals for 6-7 years to pitchers this offseason, so Hamels is probably an unrealistic option.

[redsoxbeatz]

roll the dice with Greinke, Cherryman.

[SoxSport]

The deal is Lester + Ellsbury for Felix. Good one for Seattle. They may not be able to re-sign Ells, and Lester is pitching like he needs a change of scenery.

[SemperFi Sox]

The deal is Lester + Ellsbury for Felix. Good one for Seattle. They may not be able to re-sign Ells' date=' and Lester is pitching like he needs a change of scenery.[/quote']

 

That is not a good one for Seattle. It's essentially a Lester for Hernandez swap. Why would they do that?

[a700hitter]

With the emergence of Morales and now Cook, Cherries isn't going to do a thing.

[Laser Show]

That Felix trade would have to look more like this to make Seattle even consider it.

 

Felix and Figgins

for

Ellsbury, Lester, Bogaerts, Barnes

[jung]

I have been afraid of that and I am afraid you might well turn out to be right 700.

[Meh]

I know it's not red sox, but Dodgers and Astros seem to have a deal in place for Carlos Lee. Assuming he approves it. Could make things very interesting, Lee on a good team might recharge him even more.

[TutGadol]

I don't mind not trading for an ace. Right now the nation demands an ace, but once he flops they'll demand Cheri's head on a plate. I'm much more for going for a younger guy who is major league level and has potential. Someone like James McDonald, Jordan Zimmerman or Lance Lynn.

[BornToRun]

I have been afraid of that and I am afraid you might well turn out to be right 700.

 

No way cherries stands pat with what we have. No guarantee we land someone but well be in the hunt.

[jung]

Well I know most of the posts of late have been about some ace or another but I think that is more because they are the more interesting discussion topics. What would you have to give up for one of those guys makes for a much more interesting discussion.

 

Ace generally refers to someone holding down a #1 rotation spot somewhere and doing it well. I don't think that is necessary in this case and it might certainly be to expensive in prospects. I would not be willing to give up a bunch of prospects but I could give up Ells pretty easily. Ells is under team control through 2013 I believe so he would not be a rental player for whoever got him. Ells plus 1 solid prospect might work for somebody interesting.

 

So I would be willing to give up Ells for the right deal. My expectations for the pitcher that would come back would likely go up if Ells were part of the deal but I could see doing that.

 

I am also not insistant that we get an Ace although this team really does not have a true #1 at this point. Beckett is being anointed as the 1 on these pages but only because Lester has failed. Beckett misses to many starts, does not go deep enough into games with enough regularity and is to detached from the team in my view to be a 1.

 

I just don't think he wants to be here and a 1 has responsibilities to the team that I just don't think he wants any part of any longer. Blame it on V if you want to. I don't think his relationship with Beckett is any better than Youk's was and it should be clear by now that the "peace" between Youk and V was a fabrication for convenience sake.

 

Before I forget, I don't think Ells and Lester would bring back Felix either...Maybe if we want to build on the Ells/Lester idea, add one real prospect and you might get there. The M's would have to feel like they could land Ells and he might not be thrilled with going to play in that graveyard for fly balls. He would likely do well there cause he is the type of player that should do well there but it is hard to find stardom there....the kind of stardom he is looking for anyway. Not sure the M's would pay him what he would demand to commit himself to exile in Seattle. That is what it would amount to.

[SemperFi Sox]

We seem to do something every season at the deadline.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I agree, Jung. Beckett is hands down the #1 on this team this year.

 

Here's how I look at it, too.

 

Lets say we make the WC. What pitcher do I want to throw that 1 game WC. The answer? Josh Beckett. And it's not close.

 

Having said that, you're also right, he's not an "ace". He doesn't throw 220+ IP. He's not a sub 3.30 ERA guy.

 

Would I trade Ellsbury for a guy like Felix? 110% yes. I would go Ellsbury + Lester for Felix, which is something Cafardo wrote about today (just thinking outloud). But that's how much I would give up for Felix.

[redsoxbeatz]

Last years deadline wasn't too interesting. Felt more like the Sox were scrambling for something @ the deadline and got nothing.

[jung]

I think there would be a riot on these pages if Lester started the first post season game instead of Beckett...rightfully so!

[redsoxbeatz]

I agree, Jung. Beckett is hands down the #1 on this team this year.

 

Here's how I look at it, too.

 

Lets say we make the WC. What pitcher do I want to throw that 1 game WC. The answer? Josh Beckett. And it's not close.

 

Having said that, you're also right, he's not an "ace". He doesn't throw 220+ IP. He's not a sub 3.30 ERA guy.

 

Would I trade Ellsbury for a guy like Felix? 110% yes. I would go Ellsbury + Lester for Felix, which is something Cafardo wrote about today (just thinking outloud). But that's how much I would give up for Felix.

 

I really want to agree with Ellsbury + Lester for Felix. But... is that under the assumption that the Red Sox can sign Felix mid/long-term & pick up another SP in the offseason? Or that Morales is going to turn into an excellent #3-4 SP? Otherwise we break even on the pitching and still need a #5 starter since DiceK is FA. Beckett-Hernandez-Buchholz-_____-Morales?

 

Wouldn't that be a crazy trade though. I am pretty sure it won't happen but imagine...

 

edit; looking at King Felix stats... Cherry should just pull the trigger on that if the Mariners would do it. I'd love to see a real ace in Boston again.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Lackey would be your #4 with Morales or Doubront at 5 (or vice versa on the #4/#5 classification).

 

Obviously it would be Felix - Beckett, though, don't you agree?

[redsoxbeatz]

Lackey would be your #4 with Morales or Doubront at 5 (or vice versa on the #4/#5 classification).

 

Obviously it would be Felix - Beckett, though, don't you agree?

 

Yea, I wrote it backwards.

 

Lackey? f***. Ew.

 

King Felix-Beckett-Buchholz-Morales-Lackey

 

thats probably best case scenario in that Morales pans out to be an excellent SP as once projected and we're stuck with that f*** Lackey so nothing we can do there but put him last.

 

Dang. What are the betting odds on Lester+Ellsbury for Felix trade actually happening? We should ask Bill Simmons lol!

[seabeachfred]

Finally, somebody at the Globe has suggested trading Ellsbury for King Felix. Plus Lester, which is a bit steep, but might do it.

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2012/06/30/felix_hernandez_would_be_king_in_boston/

 

I don't think that's a steep price at all; in fact, I'd go the other way and say it might cost us a Jackie Bradley as well. We're talking about a superb No. 1 type ace, perhaps as good a pitcher as there is in baseball. What are we giving them? Ellsbury? Yes, a terriic player......when he is healthy but we know now he is very fragile and his injuries seem to take forever to heal. He is simply injury prone and a candy ass when it comes to getting back in action before months have passed. Y es, though, he might like to return to the NW but he is also a FA after 2013. Would the Mariners be able to resign him? Would he stay in one piece for them or hit the DL as part of his yearly routine?

 

Lester? Face it.....the guy is either snake bitten or the Gods in Heaven are paying him back with humongous interest for his sleazy part in throwing his surrogate father Francona under the bus last September. He simply hasn't been the same, and, worse, when he g ets into a jam the result seems to be major damage. He might come around again but he might also be on his way down. He, too, is from the NW, might like to get a fresh start in a less intense atmosphere where he might regain his popularity. He has become a very disliked figure in Boston.

 

So to me it would take three players to getKing Felix and if it would take those three to get him I would fly to Boston and personally pack their suitcases myself to make this thing a go.

[redsoxbeatz]

I would take that deal.

 

Maybe if we gave them DiceK, too. Maybe then Sox wouldn't have to lose Bradley Jr. But, if that is what it would take to bring Felix here... holy s***. That guy would be so crazy good w/the type of run support he'd get from the Sox offense.

 

f***. C'mon Cherrington bring us a WS CHAMPIONSHIP not just a playoff appearance.

 

McCutchen just made an awesome catch. Cardinals are getting f***ed up.

[jung]

I think the number is likely three not two also. Not sure Ells would want to go back home again because as mentioned before, I think he is looking for a different kind of stardom with requisite dollars than he will get in Seattle. Movie star looks, now with a reputation for power, short lived but still.....People will forget who he is in Seattle....even where he is.

[redsoxbeatz]

Ellsbury would probably prefer people forget who he is as long as Boras gets him 15+mm/yr. He is a shy guy.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I don't think that's a steep price at all; in fact, I'd go the other way and say it might cost us a Jackie Bradley as well. We're talking about a superb No. 1 type ace, perhaps as good a pitcher as there is in baseball. What are we giving them? Ellsbury? Yes, a terriic player......when he is healthy but we know now he is very fragile and his injuries seem to take forever to heal. He is simply injury prone and a candy ass when it comes to getting back in action before months have passed. Y es, though, he might like to return to the NW but he is also a FA after 2013. Would the Mariners be able to resign him? Would he stay in one piece for them or hit the DL as part of his yearly routine?

 

Lester? Face it.....the guy is either snake bitten or the Gods in Heaven are paying him back with humongous interest for his sleazy part in throwing his surrogate father Francona under the bus last September. He simply hasn't been the same, and, worse, when he g ets into a jam the result seems to be major damage. He might come around again but he might also be on his way down. He, too, is from the NW, might like to get a fresh start in a less intense atmosphere where he might regain his popularity. He has become a very disliked figure in Boston.

 

So to me it would take three players to getKing Felix and if it would take those three to get him I would fly to Boston and personally pack their suitcases myself to make this thing a go.

 

I mean, if we're just going to pull out the negatives in all of our players and only the positives in Felix, then sure, it's going to look like we need to tack someone else on.

 

But Ellsbury was the MVP last year (no, Verlander was not IMO). He was a 30/30 guy who hit .320. He got hurt twice for playing hard, not because he has a bad back. He went all out for a pop up and went in hard at 2B. Not anything you can hold against him. He had 5 broken ribs misdiagnosed by the Red Sox medical staff in 2010, again, not his fault, they cleared him to come back and play and he aggravated his injury. This year, they're being cautious with him, fine, but it's not like he's the one holding himself out of the line up.

 

It's well, well, well beyond ridiculous to call Ellsbury "injury prone". Injury prone is when guys have RECURRING INJURIES TO A SPECIFIC AREA THAT DOESN'T EVER HEAL. That is not at all what we have with Ellsbury. Two freak accidents.

 

And as for Lester, he's had a tough season this year, fine. But his career ERA+ (park adjusted) of 124 is almost identical to Felix's ERA+ of 127. I'm not sure how you can justify giving up more than Ellsbury to make the deal fair. In fact, if anything, the Mariners would likely have to give up a prospect in the deal. To say the Red Sox would have to give up a top prospect along with Ells/Lester? That's absolutely ridiculous.

 

As for signing Ellsbury, you do realize that Felix is due $58mm over the next 3 years, whereas Lester is due $24mm over the next 2. So that's a $34mm savings right there. They also could depart ways with Ichiro, whose contract is up this year. He was making $17mm. The money saved from those two alone would more than allow the Mariners to sign Ellsbury, and let's be honest, they've got money out the ass. The owners of the Mariners are this little company called Nintendo, maybe you've heard of them? They have money to spend.

 

The Mariners are in desperate need of offense. They picked up Montero this year. They have Ackley. And they're still hitting .197 at home this year. They need a guy who is electric, someone who can generate offense, and in order to get that guy, they have to do it via trade because nobody is going to sign there as a FA.

[mvp 78]

Why would they want Ells and JBJ?

 

It'd be Ells/Lester/corner OF prospect or Boegarts.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Why would they want Ells and JBJ?

 

It'd be Ells/Lester/corner OF prospect or Boegarts.

 

It would be Ells/Lester. If you're giving up Ellsbury and Lester, there are zero minor league players involved.

 

If you give up 1 of the 2, then you start talking about maybe an Ellsbury + Barnes + Lavarnway deal.