We lost the Reddick trade

[Dojji]

I could be wrong but i think the choice from the Sox side to get Bailey would have been Kalish or Reddick...Kalish looks to be a way more promising player. I am inclined to think Reddick will cool off. Remember he came up and started out for us like a house afire and then what?????

 

And kids who do that get it and find consistency sometimes. I don't understand why people can't believe a kid like Reddick could improve. Sweeney isn't going to improve, and Kalish has been a ghost for 2 years -- thinking that won't impact his skills is naive.

[jacksonianmarch]

Reddick is proving his power is real. He's not on a tear, he's not way over his head, he's hitting .273 with 12HRs. If he maintains his power, then you lost this deal no matter how good Bailey ends up being

[jung]

Maybe Reddick will continue and have an all star career. The point is Reddick started on just this kind of a streak for us and that turned completely around. So, his history so far is to burn very hot and then very cold. Geez we are so in dire need of wringing our hands over everything the Sox do (this suggests the mighty chart deserves mention again). My God 40 games in and there is no doubt about it....Reddick is the real deal, on the way to the hall of fame and clearly he is on the way there BECAUSE the Sox traded him. Sometimes ya' just gotta' laugh cause otherwise you are gonna' cry!

[jacksonianmarch]

Reddick did not start out like this. After a few weeks, he was hitting high .300s. That was unsustainable. His AVG is ok, his OBP poor but his power real.

[Station 13]

His power is always real, nobody denies that or written it off. He SLG .500 in AA and AAA, and .460 last year in Boston. The fact he didn't get playing time over MacDime last year was full of s***** management.

[Bellhorn04]

His power is always real' date=' nobody denies that or written it off. He SLG .500 in AA and AAA, and .460 last year in Boston. The fact he didn't get playing time over MacDime last year was full of s***** management.[/quote']

 

Reddick got lots of playing time last year. Unfortunately he went completely into the tank the last 2 months of the season. He hit 222/268/340 with 8 RBI in his last 40 starts.

[User Name]

Reddick did not start out like this. After a few weeks' date=' he was hitting high .300s. That was unsustainable. His AVG is ok, his OBP poor but his power real.[/quote']

 

So if he hits a bunch of HR's with awful D and an OBP under .300 with a low BA, we "lost" the trade no matter how good Bailey and Sweeney end up being? Don't be stupid.

[Dojji]

Reddick's got enough talent to improve defensively. He's mobile enough to play center and he has a good arm.

 

This team will never get better as long as it rejects the idea that young players can improve, and especially as long as it writes one prospect in in a given position and closes the door to all others, as in Kalish in RF.

[a700hitter]

Reddick's got enough talent to improve defensively. He's mobile enough to play center and he has a good arm.

 

This team will never get better as long as it rejects the idea that young players can improve, and especially as long as it writes one prospect in in a given position and closes the door to all others, as in Kalish in RF.

Sure we can. We just need to trade our prospects for guys who can perform. We need to make better trades. This Cherries guy traded 2 young players and got garbage in return. When you trade prospects, you should be getting fully formed well-performing professionals like Beckett and Lowell. That's how it is done.

[Elktonnick]

I agree the problem wasn't trading Reddick. THe problem was what they got in return. This why most of us think Cherries is over his head as a GM

[Bellhorn04]

I agree the problem wasn't trading Reddick. THe problem was what they got in return. This why most of us think Cherries is over his head as a GM

 

They got Bailey and Sweeney. Sweeney is contributing and Bailey is injured. If Bailey comes back and pitches well and Reddick slumps does the trade still show Cherries is over his head? The point is it's still too early to call.

[User Name]

They got Bailey and Sweeney. Sweeney is contributing and Bailey is injured. If Bailey comes back and pitches well and Reddick slumps does the trade still show Cherries is over his head? The point is it's still too early to call.

 

You're talking to people that have an agenda besides their criticism of the trade. Dojji's slobbering all over Reddick's knob, and a700 and Elkton are, well, a700 and Elkton, so nothing this team ever does is positive.

[Elktonnick]

They got Bailey and Sweeney. Sweeney is contributing and Bailey is injured. If Bailey comes back and pitches well and Reddick slumps does the trade still show Cherries is over his head? The point is it's still too early to call.

 

IF

[User Name]

Because Reddick keeping up this type of production isn't a big IF? Logic suffers yet another crushing blow!

[FredLynn]

That's not what I said. I said that it's too hasty to draw any final conclusions on the trade with just two months of data.

 

I said the same thing, just more sarcastically than you put it. Its going to take at least a year to see who won that trade.

[a700hitter]

I agree the problem wasn't trading Reddick. THe problem was what they got in return. This why most of us think Cherries is over his head as a GM

He sold low on a guy that was just starting to develop. He got an OFer who can't run or hit for power and that is only okay at getting on base (Sweeney) and an injury prone reliever. People are always scoffing that closers are over rated and over valued, but people defend Cherries by pointing to how great Bailey can be. He's injury prone with elbow issues. They gave away an OFer with potential with good power who just got some ML time under his belt and did okay in his time for a guy that throws 40 innings and a washed up OF prospect who is at best a 4th OFer.

 

Then he trades a good bat with ML time for another short reliever who has very questionable stuff. Lowrie and Reddick are the number 3 hitters on their team right now. Their new organizations think they are their best hitters. We got a bum who busted after 2 innings, another guy who is missing 3 or 4 months after some incidental contact, and a 4th OFer without a single HR. WOw!!! There is a long way to go for the Sox to come out on the positive side of the ledger on those trades.

[Dojji]

I agree with a700. Sweeney is at best a mediocre starter, much better suited to a 4th outfield role, and you just don't trade potential middle of the order bats (and make no mistake, that WAS and IS Reddick's potential) for relievers and bench players. It's almost as stupid as trading a potential frontline starter for V-Mart -- a DH who could barely fake it at catcher anymore -- to solve our issues at catcher, which you'll note remained unsolved and helped cost us shots at the playoffs in 2 separate years.

 

Chasing the dream is one thing. Trying to remain a perennial contender is one thing. Dealing away gold for copper is not something a team this deep should be doing -- ever. We should have the resources never to need to trade quality for quantity or deal top prospects for decaying veterans.

[Bellhorn04]

He sold low on a guy that was just starting to develop. He got an OFer who can't run or hit for power and that is only okay at getting on base (Sweeney) and an injury prone reliever. People are always scoffing that closers are over rated and over valued, but people defend Cherries by pointing to how great Bailey can be. He's injury prone with elbow issues. They gave away an OFer with potential with good power who just got some ML time under his belt and did okay in his time for a guy that throws 40 innings and a washed up OF prospect who is at best a 4th OFer.

 

Then he trades a good bat with ML time for another short reliever who has very questionable stuff. Lowrie and Reddick are the number 3 hitters on their team right now. Their new organizations think they are their best hitters. We got a bum who busted after 2 innings, another guy who is missing 3 or 4 months after some incidental contact, and a 4th OFer without a single HR. WOw!!! There is a long way to go for the Sox to come out on the positive side of the ledger on those trades.

 

Lowrie is one of the most injury prone players I've ever seen on the Red Sox. For a young guy he had a neverending series of health issues. He had 4 years worth of chances to step up and establish himself with the Red Sox and he didn't do it.

[Dojji]

Yeah, but he is talented. I didn't hate the lowrie for Melancon trade that much, because he had no position here and if he'd still been here we'd have never called up WMB, but I hate dealing talent for nothing.

 

We got real lucky when Aviles took over as our everyday shortstop and was up to it healthwise. As it is, I'd still rather have Lowrie than Punto. He couldn't be a starter, but if he could have been a Tim Naehring (you know, productive and useful and with star potential if he could just stay on the FREAKING field for 2 weeks in a row), that would have been really helpful.

[Bellhorn04]

Dojji, I do agree on the V-Mart trade. I hated trading Masterson. Hagadone is starting to contribute for them too. I really hate trading good pitching prospects.

[Dojji]

Masterson would have put us in the playoffs each of the last 2 years if he was here, starting, over the last guy in our rotation. I hate it doubly because it was obvious when we traded him that our SP depth was aging, and that they were puting too many eggs in the basket marked "Buchholz."

[example1]

All of you guys have watched Reddick and Lowrie for years. None of you felt like they were "middle of the order bats". You all complained about Lowrie being injured all the time, and you said consistently that Reddick didn't have a place in Boston's future. If you don't believe me, go read your own posts on the Bailey acquisition thread and other places. You shouldn't have to look though, because it was only about 5 months ago.

 

They aren't middle of the order bats, unless your order absolutely sucks.

 

Reddick would have been bottom of the order for the Sox, he would have remained a very streaky player who had some good months.

 

If anything, this example should probably make people re-evaluate the idea that the Sox system sucks and isn't producing anyone of value.

[a700hitter]

All of you guys have watched Reddick and Lowrie for years. None of you felt like they were "middle of the order bats". You all complained about Lowrie being injured all the time, and you said consistently that Reddick didn't have a place in Boston's future. If you don't believe me, go read your own posts on the Bailey acquisition thread and other places. You shouldn't have to look though, because it was only about 5 months ago.

 

They aren't middle of the order bats, unless your order absolutely sucks.

 

Reddick would have been bottom of the order for the Sox, he would have remained a very streaky player who had some good months.

 

If anything, this example should probably make people re-evaluate the idea that the Sox system sucks and isn't producing anyone of value.

Speaking for myself, I never projected either of them as the #3 hitter for the Red Sox. I always like Lowrie's bat. I used to call him Minny Manny, because he was very productive with his hits getting a lot of RBIs. Middle of the order? Yeah, I could see him batting 5th or 6th if he stayed healthy. Who the hell ever thought Pedroia would bat cleanup at times?

 

The fact is this E1, both the A's and the Astros got their number three hitter for spare parts, essentially just a bullpen guy. That's a good deal for them even if they have weak lineups. BTW, weak lineup or not, the A's handed us our hat when we faced them this season.

[Dojji]

All of you guys have watched Reddick and Lowrie for years. None of you felt like they were "middle of the order bats".

 

Ahem.

 

Lowrie, not so much, but he's still useful, so losing him for nothing still hurt. He's outperforming Aviles and that counts for something. Reddick, though, I felt was a middle of the order potential (note, "potential,") on his power ability and his quick bat which struck me as a good potential to hit for a highish average if he could improve a bit on his pitch recognition. High average and good power = middle of the order ability.

 

Based on numbers alone Reddick would be hitting 5th for us right now and the only reason he wouldn't be hitting cleanup was because Papi's been hitting third. That's close enough where I sit.

[Bellhorn04]

Ahem.

 

Lowrie, not so much, but he's still useful, so losing him for nothing still hurt. He's outperforming Aviles and that counts for something. Reddick, though, I felt was a middle of the order potential (note, "potential,") on his power ability and his quick bat which struck me as a good potential to hit for a highish average if he could improve a bit on his pitch recognition. High average and good power = middle of the order ability.

 

Based on numbers alone Reddick would be hitting 5th for us right now and the only reason he wouldn't be hitting cleanup was because Papi's been hitting third. That's close enough where I sit.

 

You just can't assume that these guys would be doing the same in Boston though. A lot of players have a funny habit of getting better when they leave here, especially for lower-pressure situations. And vice versa, getting worse when they come here, like the pitcher we traded Lowrie for.

[Bellhorn04]

There's a choke factor for some guys, let's face it. I think maybe Reddick choked last year. He was going great until I think it dawned on him, 'I am now the starting right fielder for the Boston Red Sox in a pennant race'. And his hitting went down the tubes. Now he's in Oakland, he can go out there every game, have fun and swing for the fences, knowing not too many people care and his job security isn't constantly under scrutiny.

[User Name]

Ahem.

 

Lowrie, not so much, but he's still useful, so losing him for nothing still hurt. He's outperforming Aviles and that counts for something. Reddick, though, I felt was a middle of the order potential (note, "potential,") on his power ability and his quick bat which struck me as a good potential to hit for a highish average if he could improve a bit on his pitch recognition. High average and good power = middle of the order ability.

 

Based on numbers alone Reddick would be hitting 5th for us right now and the only reason he wouldn't be hitting cleanup was because Papi's been hitting third. That's close enough where I sit.

 

You liked Reddick, we get it. But be realistic, the guy's very streaky, and is unlikely to remain producing at his current rate. He's not very good, and neither was Lowrie, whose praises you're singing, but already has missed a chunk of time, in the least surprising development of the young season.

[jung]

The Reddick and Lowrie deals pale in comparison to trading pitching prospects especially pitching prospects for which some amount of time has already been expended meaning the player is much closer to making his way to the MLs'. I hope we don't soon or ever see repeats of that stupidity. It is true....you can never have enough good pitching. The truth of it is that we don't have enough good pitching....never mind having more than enough or anything like more than enough.

 

Even when some of these guys get back what will they do other than add more middle of the pack mediocre arms. What the hell are they trying to do down there....make it so that V can bring in one guy per inning for entire games "and here comes are normal 2nd inning guy. His last 2nd inning appearance was really encouraging as he was able to record three outs without giving up more than two runs!

[Dojji]

You just can't assume that these guys would be doing the same in Boston though. A lot of players have a funny habit of getting better when they leave here' date=' especially for lower-pressure situations. And vice versa, getting worse when they come here, like the pitcher we traded Lowrie for.[/quote']

 

It makes more sense to assume he would, than it does to assume he wouldn't. As evidenced by the fact that he is, in fact, doing it. Reddick always had the talent do do what he's doing now. he just needed to gain a bit more experience in order to do it consistently. Which he has now apparently done.

[Dojji]

You liked Reddick' date=' we get it. But be realistic, the guy's very streaky, and is unlikely to remain producing at his current rate. He's not very good, and neither was Lowrie, whose praises you're singing, but already has missed a chunk of time, in the least surprising development of the young season.[/quote']

 

Streaky he is, but a lot of professional high performance players have streaks, I'm not that impressed by that line of argument. If Reddick can string enough hot streaks together in any one year he can easily become exactly what I say he can become.