So how about Daniel Nava?

[Elktonnick]

After suffering with McDonald until he did us all a favor and went on the DL' date=' Nava is like a breath of fresh air. I do agree with MVP that we should see down the road if he can keep this up, though I wouldn't say the end of June. If this keeps up for the next two weeks it looks like he may have cracked the code this time around. Remember, he started strong two years ago and then faded like a pair of old jeans. This time around he may have a stronger reign on the Red Sox. Let's just hope he can keep hitting and getting on base.[/quote']

 

Carl who?

[mvp 78]

He was small for his age so his parents had him dosed with HGH. Fact' date=' from what I read.[/quote']

 

I wish I grew 4-5"s after I was 18.

[a700hitter]

I wish I grew 4-5"s after I was 18.

You still can. I read that Enzyte really works.

 

[Rdsxmbnt]

Never really understood why Nava was written off so quickly. Two years ago he had a .350 OBP and this year is obviously well above that also. His plate discipline is a well above-average tool and his 10/8 BB/K is evident of that. He's hit extremely well at every level of the minors and has at least average defense. Basically I really think he has staying power. Not sure he's an answer long term for the Red Sox given that Crawford/Ellsbury/Kalish are the future, but I think he's a starting MLB OF on some team.

[SoxSport]

Never really understood why Nava was written off so quickly. Two years ago he had a .350 OBP and this year is obviously well above that also. His plate discipline is a well above-average tool and his 10/8 BB/K is evident of that. He's hit extremely well at every level of the minors and has at least average defense. Basically I really think he has staying power. Not sure he's an answer long term for the Red Sox given that Crawford/Ellsbury/Kalish are the future' date=' but I think he's a starting MLB OF on some team.[/quote']

 

 

Nava is the kind of guy who has to make a big impact to stick. He has to hit.

He doesn't have any special defensive skills. He is 29 yo. In baseball, there is a certain amount of age discrimination against older players making it from the minors. In Nava's case, he didn't start playing in the minors until he was 24, so he has an excuse.

[Elktonnick]

Nava recent ML stint will mean he has a future (limited) as a reserve outfielder somewhere in the major leagues for another year or two.

[Dojji]

You need to keep an open mind about guys like this. It's better to give them a chance until you have a good reason not to. Every now and again one of them really surprises you.

 

All Nava could do to demonstrate his worth as a ballplayer was hit at the level he was playing at -- and for the most part he did exactly that. Until he gives us a reason to doubt him, I think we need to give him the courtesy of letting him stand or fall.

[VA Sox Fan]

Folkes want to s*** on someone when things are bad. I don't get it. Nava has been great so far. He has heart like someone else mentioned.

 

I get so tired of the "McDime" crap. I understand it, but he could be worse. At least he cares

[FredLynn]

So when does a sample size move out of the "small" category? Serious question. Nava is still killing it' date=' and when he's not killing it he's taking ball 4. So, honestly, at what point do you get to say, "Nava is a good hitter"? I don't know enough statistics, and certainly not enough baseball statistics, to know when you can make some sort of valid judgment.[/quote']

 

Ideally, about 200 ABs. Someone who has a statistical background told me that once. Not independently verified.

[example1]

You need to keep an open mind about guys like this. It's better to give them a chance until you have a good reason not to. Every now and again one of them really surprises you.

 

All Nava could do to demonstrate his worth as a ballplayer was hit at the level he was playing at -- and for the most part he did exactly that. Until he gives us a reason to doubt him, I think we need to give him the courtesy of letting him stand or fall.

 

I've always liked Nava. Mostly because of his OBP skills. He's a guy with a career .377 OPB over 239 PAs. Even if he does't have a great AVG or power, a guy who can get on consistently in the .350+ OBP range has a place in the game. Particularly when his services are basically free.

 

In 968 PAs at the AAA level he's got a .378 career OBP. His plate control isn't a fluke.

[seabeachfred]

Never really understood why Nava was written off so quickly. Two years ago he had a .350 OBP and this year is obviously well above that also. His plate discipline is a well above-average tool and his 10/8 BB/K is evident of that. He's hit extremely well at every level of the minors and has at least average defense. Basically I really think he has staying power. Not sure he's an answer long term for the Red Sox given that Crawford/Ellsbury/Kalish are the future' date=' but I think he's a starting MLB OF on some team.[/quote']

 

Given that Crawford, Ellsbury and Kalish are the future?????? Are you serious Rdx? I'm beginning to doubt that very much. Crawford won't be back until August from what I've heard and that's two wasted years with this guy. Ellsbury is taking his time healing and we know from 2010 that he is a very slow healer and very tender and injury prone, and, besides, do you really think Prune Face is going to put up the money to resign him to a long contract? I don't. As for Kalish, all I can say is when????? When the hell is he going to be ready to play. I hate to think our players are mushy and soft but they see to have a helluva hard time getting mended and ready to return to action.

 

Does anyone know when these "patients" are going to be ready to g et the hell back on the field?:dunno::dunno::dunno::dunno::dunno::dunno::dunno::dunno:

[mvp 78]

After Tony C got beaned, he should have played the next day. What a puss, right Fred?

[redsoxfan3]

Given that Crawford, Ellsbury and Kalish are the future?????? Are you serious Rdx? I'm beginning to doubt that very much. Crawford won't be back until August from what I've heard and that's two wasted years with this guy. Ellsbury is taking his time healing and we know from 2010 that he is a very slow healer and very tender and injury prone, and, besides, do you really think Prune Face is going to put up the money to resign him to a long contract? I don't. As for Kalish, all I can say is when????? When the hell is he going to be ready to play. I hate to think our players are mushy and soft but they see to have a helluva hard time getting mended and ready to return to action.

 

Does anyone know when these "patients" are going to be ready to g et the hell back on the field?:dunno::dunno::dunno::dunno::dunno::dunno::dunno::dunno:

 

Ellsbury is looking at an early July return. Crawford is looking for a possible return right around the All-Star Break. Kalish will probably make a June return in the minors. He is in an extended Spring Training right now, so he is actually getting some action. Ellsbury had full range of motion in his shoulder 10 days ago. Crawford is expected to start taking swings within the next couple of days.

 

I think that ideally the future does involve Crawford, Ellsbury, and Kalish. Kalish will return to the minors this year and if he has a solid comeback after his injury, then I think we see him as a starter next year. That of course means that he does not get injured again. We are financially invested in Crawford for the next few years. He is obviously part of the future for the next few years, as long as he can avoid getting injured. Our OF needs to stay healthy. Ellsbury is a big question mark. Do we try to lock up Ellsbury long-term or do we let him walk and try to get another guy in the OF? That is a question that no one knows the answer to as of now. Sweeney and Ross are two guys in the OF that could be a good combo for a platoon role in RF. Even if Kalish starts in RF for us next year, Ross and Sweeney could be two guys that are huge for us off the bench and as depth players. Much better options than McDonald.

 

No one can predict the OF situation. Injuries can happen at any time. I do know that Crawford is going to be around. I know that they are definitely going to give Kalish an opportunity. I might even be willing to be that they are going to try to lock up Ellsbury long-term. What is going to happen with Josh Hamilton? He is going to be a free agent after this year. Can the Red Sox make a real run to sign Hamilton? If so, that means we do not even probably offer Jacoby arbitration next year, but then again that is a long shot. I do not think Ellsbury can have another power season like he had for us last year. I do think that he can be a huge part of this team for years to come though.

[ORS]

Jackie Bradley Jr is due for a promotion from Salem to Portland any day now (.367/.495/568). If he can keep up a high level of play in AA the second half this year. I think he causes them to pause in signing Ellsbury long-term, especially if Ellsbury regresses a bit to the player he was before last year.

 

And, holy turds, look at that OBP!

[redsoxfan3]

Jackie Bradley Jr is due for a promotion from Salem to Portland any day now (.367/.495/568). If he can keep up a high level of play in AA the second half this year. I think he causes them to pause in signing Ellsbury long-term, especially if Ellsbury regresses a bit to the player he was before last year.

 

And, holy turds, look at that OBP!

 

Even if Bradley continues to tear it up in AA, he probably finishes out the year this year in AA and then maybe starts the year next year in AAA. That means that if he has a solid year in AAA in 2013 that he could potentially be ready to have an impact in the majors in 2014, the year that Ellsbury's contract will be up. That logic could be right. Let's just hope Bradley continues this rapid pace.

[Dojji]

Given that Crawford' date=' Ellsbury and Kalish are the future?????? [/quote']

 

Three lefthanded hitters, one unproven, one whose career is defined by a single year and has already missed signfiicant time 2 different years with injuries (I got over caring why or whose fault these things are when it was Lowrie) and one with a severe platoon split.

 

I think a player like Nava, who is a competent switch hitter, can make himself useful as a contact hitting backup.

 

It'll be interesting to see how things happen if we actually get Gonzalez, Ellsbury, Ross, Sweeney, Nava and Kalish all viable and available at the same time, AND have to shoehorn Middlebrooks and Youkilis into the lineup too. That's 6 starting outfielders and a guy who might need outfield time to keep his bat fresh. It might be time to contemplate trades at that point, even if you don't promote Kalish this year.

[a700hitter]

Nava is certainly making the most of this opportunity, which he has to know will be his last. He definitely has good batting skills. The question is whether he will hit so well as to overcome his complete lack of major league tools and talent. He has little power, little speed, and he is an adequate fielder at best. He's fighting like hell to stick with the team, and he is bringing life and enthusiasm to the team. I am rooting for him in a big way, but he remains a long shot IMO.

[SoxSport]

I have a feeling that at least one of these guys--Youks, Ells, Crawford and AdGon-- will get traded before the season is out. Most likely Youks or Ells, because the other two have almost untradeable contracts unless you eat large amounts of salary. The Crawford and AdGon signings have hamstrung them salary-wise, so they will have to turn more to the farm system to improve the roster in the future. That means players like Nava, Lin, Kalish, Lav, Brooks and Iggy. Notice not one a pitcher.

 

I also have a feeling that Henry will sell this team in the next year or so. I see this morning the Steinbrenners are selling the Yankees. It is certainly a sell-high time for big market sports teams.

[jacksonianmarch]

Steinny has denied he is selling the Yankees. Also, I highly, highly, highly, doubt Nava continues to bash the pitching in the bigs.

[Dojji]

I don't see him regressing *that* much. He has all the talent he needs to hit .280 in the bigs, that and a few doubles, with him being a switch hitter, should secure him at least a platoon role somewhere.

[jacksonianmarch]

I don't see him regressing *that* much. He has all the talent he needs to hit .280 in the bigs' date=' that and a few doubles, with him being a switch hitter, should secure him at least a platoon role somewhere.[/quote']

 

you've been slurping his pole for years now, of course you dont see a regression. The guy was DFAd for a reason. Once the league comes around to him again, he will drop into replacement level or lower results and be an afterthought

[Dojji]

The question is whether he will hit so well as to overcome his complete lack of major league tools and talent. He has little power' date=' little speed, and he is an adequate fielder at best. He's fighting like hell to stick with the team, and he is bringing life and enthusiasm to the team. I am rooting for him in a big way, but he remains a long shot IMO.[/quote']

 

I'm not sure you're not underestimating Nava's power. Nava's getting his power from the same place Dustin Pedroia got his, and to a lesser extent where Youkilis got his -- batspeed, plate discipline and hitting savvy. You don't have to be built like Frank Thomas to hit for power. You just have to get good wood on the ball and good torque on the bat.

[Dojji]

you've been slurping his pole for years now' date=' of course you dont see a regression. The guy was DFAd for a reason. Once the league comes around to him again, he will drop into replacement level or lower results and be an afterthought[/quote']

 

Yeah he was DFA for a reason. He was DFA because the people who make decisions underestimated him because of his size and age. Happens literally all the time. DOesn't mean it was the correct decision, and DEFINITELY doesn't mean Nava can't get it done over a longer term. All statistican signs point to him having the hitting savvy to stick in the bigs -- which is a lower standard than you're trying to pretend it is.

[jacksonianmarch]

Dojji, Nava has hit a max of 10HRs in the minors. This isnt a 22 yr old kid growing into his body, this is a 29 yr old AAAA player who has shown that is his ceiling. 10HR power sucks as a corner OFer, that is below average power. a700 is right, the only plus skill the guy has is his eye, and once his bat cools off a bit, he will have to use it to stay relevant, because nobody will ever pitch around Daniel Nava

[Dojji]

David Dejesus makes pretty good money being the kind of corner OF that I suspect Nava is capable of. Dejesus was a bit better defensively in his prime, but not really all that much.

 

If every team in baseball could find that ideal corner OF, you'd be right, and Nava wouldn't have a shot. But heck, Brett Gartner spent 2 years as the starting left fielder of the Yankees, so it can't be THAT easy to find that prototypical slugger type can it?

[kapsis21]

Dojji' date=' Nava has hit a max of 10HRs in the minors. This isnt a 22 yr old kid growing into his body, this is a 29 yr old AAAA player who has shown that is his ceiling. 10HR power sucks as a corner OFer, that is below average power. a700 is right, the only plus skill the guy has is his eye, and once his bat cools off a bit, he will have to use it to stay relevant, because nobody will ever pitch around Daniel Nava[/quote']

 

do you have any other job than to pick the redsox players and find their tiddy biddy drawbacks and make them sound like its a huge deal.. he is the 6th OF we have and definitely doing a decent job.. i will take him over Nix or A Jones any f***ing given day.

[jacksonianmarch]

David Dejesus makes pretty good money being the kind of corner OF that I suspect Nava is capable of. Dejesus was a bit better defensively in his prime, but not really all that much.

 

If every team in baseball could find that ideal corner OF, you'd be right, and Nava wouldn't have a shot. But heck, Brett Gartner spent 2 years as the starting left fielder of the Yankees, so it can't be THAT easy to find that prototypical slugger type can it?

 

David Dejesus has above average speed, can play CF, and plays solid above average defense all over the OF.

[jacksonianmarch]

do you have any other job than to pick the redsox players and find their tiddy biddy drawbacks and make them sound like its a huge deal.. he is the 6th OF we have and definitely doing a decent job.. i will take him over Nix or A Jones any f***ing given day.

 

We'll see if you are saying that by the end of the yr. Plus, Nix would never be in the convo since he is an infielder. Jones is an adequate 4th OFer since he brings power and a huge platoon split. He OPS'd over .800 last yr in that role and hit with power while giving our lefty outfielders a break vs lefty pitchers.

[a700hitter]

Dojji' date=' Nava has hit a max of 10HRs in the minors. This isnt a 22 yr old kid growing into his body, this is a 29 yr old AAAA player who has shown that is his ceiling. 10HR power sucks as a corner OFer, that is below average power. a700 is right, the only plus skill the guy has is his eye, and once his bat cools off a bit, he will have to use it to stay relevant, because nobody will ever pitch around Daniel Nava[/quote']Gardner is a speed burner. That is his major skill, and it is a major weapon. He is also rated as an excellent fielder. Nava has no major league skills.

[jacksonianmarch]

Yes, Gardner has prevented more runs than any outfielder in baseball over the last 2 yrs. He has Nava's eye while also having 50SB potential. Apples meet oranges