Golfgate: Another Beckett Headache

[Dojji]

I'm not convinced they outweigh the consequences of actually pulling the trigger this time.

 

The fact is there are no good options here. "get rid of him" is not a good option. It's an option that does something for the sake of having done something, nothing more.

at its finest.

[Bellhorn04]

Beckett is a stubborn' date=' self-centered egomaniac who will NEVER fall into line. NEVER. With that kind of employee its just best to cut ties. And what year is better to do it than during a year where we are going nowhere.[/quote']

 

Then since we're going nowhere, it makes more sense to figure out how to get something of value back for him that we can use later, rather than nothing.

[kapsis21]

ok i just heard his interview, and it felt genuine. and he said it right. the balls were in the middle of the plate. he has to make adjustments. he cant pitch like that and he is atleast owning up to it. that is the one quality i like about him.

didnt like that when he said he will do whatever he wants on his off days. when the season starts there are no off days period. a rest day is not for playing golf.. he needs to understand that.

here is to hoping ah f*** that all my hopes are crushed.. if they win games now it will be a miracle..

[FredLynn]

Then since we're going nowhere' date=' it makes more sense to figure out how to get something of value back for him that we can use later, rather than nothing.[/quote']

 

Of course we need to get something back for him. I never said we should just dump him without being compensated. I think we could get a decent SP along with some prospects for him. I would avoid trading him to a contending team, especially one in the AL. Who knows: maybe he would thrive in the NL. I wouldn't care if he were successful elsewhere because he would no longer be our problem. Good luck to him...somewhere else.

[FredLynn]

ok i just heard his interview, and it felt genuine. and he said it right. the balls were in the middle of the plate. he has to make adjustments. he cant pitch like that and he is atleast owning up to it. that is the one quality i like about him.

didnt like that when he said he will do whatever he wants on his off days. when the season starts there are no off days period. a rest day is not for playing golf.. he needs to understand that.

here is to hoping ah f*** that all my hopes are crushed.. if they win games now it will be a miracle..

 

He was sticking his middle finger up at the fans. Again.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

If Beckett is here next month, it's a clear sign that the Red Sox don't care what you think either. Really, in many cases they don't, but they have now hit a critical crossroad. An ever-growing contingent of fans is beginning to realize the flapdoodle they're being fed, sold, and lied to about day after day. Did you see last night's "distribution" crowd? It was of course, another sellout, a lie that keeps perpetrating and makes you wonder what other kinds of deception they have under wraps.

 

Couple of issues with this portion of the Wilbur article.

 

If Beckett is here next month, it's a clear sign that the Red Sox don't care what you think either.

 

That's retarded. Trading Beckett will be a real pain in the ass, and articles like this don't help the cause. It's incredibly easy for some internet GM to bang out 'eat teh contract!' when it's someone else's money.

 

It was of course, another sellout, a lie that keeps perpetrating and makes you wonder what other kinds of deception they have under wraps.

 

I'm sorry, but anyone who has their panties in a bunch over the sellout thing is an idiot. Pure and simple.

 

Oh, you mean the Red Sox are releasing information that might get someone to buy tickets they wouldn't have bought otherwise? The pigs!

[kapsis21]

He was sticking his middle finger up at the fans. Again.

 

must have been paladois and sff on site giving him s***..

but if its true that is just not right. what an egotistical moron .. its unacceptable behavior.

rather than taking it like a man he chose to show his finger..

[Bellhorn04]

Of course we need to get something back for him. I never said we should just dump him without being compensated. I think we could get a decent SP along with some prospects for him. I would avoid trading him to a contending team' date=' especially one in the AL. Who knows: maybe he would thrive in the NL. I wouldn't care if he were successful elsewhere because he would no longer be our problem. Good luck to him...somewhere else.[/quote']

 

Fine, but making a desperation trade for 'whatever you can get for him' right now just isn't smart. We'll get screwed. There are 2.5 months before the trade deadline. We're going to have to put up with him a bit longer.

[Bellhorn04]

Eric Wilbur is the last guy to go to for a sensible viewpoint. The other day he wanted to ship A-Gon out of town. Wilbur is like Dan Shaughnessy on crack.

[FredLynn]

must have been paladois and sff on site giving him s***..

but if its true that is just not right. what an egotistical moron .. its unacceptable behavior.

rather than taking it like a man he chose to show his finger..

 

I meant figuratively, not literally. As far as I know he hasn't done that in public.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Eric Wilbur is the last guy to go to for a sensible viewpoint. The other day he wanted to ship A-Gon out of town. Wilbur is like Dan Shaughnessy on crack.

But Dan Shaughnessy's already on crack...

[FredLynn]

Eric Wilbur is the last guy to go to for a sensible viewpoint. The other day he wanted to ship A-Gon out of town. Wilbur is like Dan Shaughnessy on crack.

 

So let me understand this: you don't like the message, so you attack the messenger?

Whatever you think about Eric Wilbur, what he wrote makes a lot of sense this time. Most of it.

[Dojji]

But Dan Shaughnessy's already on crack...

 

Then imagine what Wilbur's on.

[Bellhorn04]

So let me understand this: you don't like the message, so you attack the messenger?

Whatever you think about Eric Wilbur, what he wrote makes a lot of sense this time. Most of it.

 

I've been talking about trading Beckett so I don't disagree with that part. I just find Wilbur's sourness to be way over the top. I prefer a little reasonableness.

[FredLynn]

I've been talking about trading Beckett so I don't disagree with that part. I just find Wilbur's sourness to be way over the top. I prefer a little reasonableness.

 

Got it. I think we are on the same page.

And we both know why Wilbur writes that way. You write vanilla fluff and you won't be writing for anyone but yourself and Red Sox boards very quickly.

[kapsis21]

I meant figuratively' date=' not literally. As far as I know he hasn't done that in public.[/quote']

 

ok understood. then i dont think its too much of an issue but he has to back his words with some effort to put more starts of going the distance. rather than s***ing bed in 3 innings. i hope he comes around.

[Gringo]

Notice how Beckett said "Smart fans."?

 

To me that comes across as spit in the face, it's clear he was taking the piss.

[Gringo]

Also the line "We only have 18 off days a year"

 

ARE YOU f***ING KIDDING ME?

 

WTF DO YOU DO BETWEEN OCTOBER AND FEBRUARY, YOU FAT SLOB?

[Northern Star]

. a rest day is not for playing golf.. he needs to understand that.

 

Why not? It's called a day off because that's what it is; a day on which you are not required to work. The ONLY reason this is an issue is the skipped start/lat issue. If Beckett had made that start, and then played golf on the off day, no one would have said a thing.

[jacksonianmarch]

Why not? It's called a day off because that's what it is; a day on which you are not required to work. The ONLY reason this is an issue is the skipped start/lat issue. If Beckett had made that start' date=' and then played golf on the off day, no one would have said a thing.[/quote']

 

exactly. He was scratched for injury then was out doing something that would exacerbate said injury. Then he comes back and sucks ass at home. This is not just a slap in the face, this is a Cleveland Steamer for every sox fan

[jung]

I have not seen the piece yet but I guess one of the Boston scribes mused today that Beckett was trying to get the Sox to pay him to drop his 5/10 trade status making it easier for the Sox to trade him. 5/10 status is just another means for the players to hold team hostage.

 

I absolutely despise the owners and the players association, mainly the owners for having been stupid enough to have signed one of the most lopsided agreements in sports history, for having secured what at the time was little league representation when compared to Marvin Miller which was the start of this process of one lopsided agreement after the other. While I have no love for the Players Association, you can't really blame them for trying to get the best deal for the players that they represent.The owners have been dumb as doorknobs in this regard and the result is players with long term contracts at big money that the team cannot control in any way shape or form. They sign these monster contracts totally at risk that the player is going to maintain a high standard of performance and more importantly will want to play at a high level. Good luck with that!

[Northern Star]

exactly. He was scratched for injury then was out doing something that would exacerbate said injury. Then he comes back and sucks ass at home. This is not just a slap in the face' date=' this is a Cleveland Steamer for every sox fan[/quote']

 

And the other side of my point is under those circumstances, he sure as s*** SHOULDN'T have played golf, and his stubbornness leading into the condescending "smart fans" comment isn't going to win him any fans.

[FredLynn]

Notice how Beckett said "Smart fans."?

 

To me that comes across as spit in the face, it's clear he was taking the piss.

 

Exactly. He is openly contemptuous of the fans. If he could do it and get away with it, I am certain he would have given the one finger salute to the Fenway faithful last night. Well screw Josh Beckett. I will help you pack your bags and even carry them in the airport for you.

[Brennan]

This piece by Eric Wilbur embodies everything I think about Beckett and the Red Sox right now:

 

Forget about the golf for a moment.

 

Forget about the fact that Red Sox "ace" Josh Beckett got lit up to the tune of seven runs over a measly 2 1/3 innings by the Cleveland Guardians last night at Fenway Park. Forget about the fried chicken and beer, Beckett's reported refusal to participate in workout drills, and his public relations firm members who sit high atop home plate at Fenway Park.

 

Those are all reasons Josh Beckett needs to go. But during last night's postgame press conference, Beckett gave everybody -- fans, the front office, media members -- a reason to run him out of town with a ferocious vigor not seen in this town in years.

 

Beckett's smug defiance encapsulates everything we need to know about the 2012 Boston Red Sox, an over-privileged, under-achieving group of players who have become enemies to nearly every baseball-loving fan in Boston.

 

And Beckett is the contemptible bandleader.

 

Two days ago, it was reported by 98.5 The Sports Hub that Beckett, skipped in the rotation last weekend for what the team deemed a sore lat muscle, was spotted hitting the links at a local country club with compatriot in crime Clay Buchholz last Thursday. The assumption was that, if Beckett was indeed hurt, why was he out playing 18? It's a legitimate question that fans deserve the right an answer to, no matter how the story was greeted with such banality by certain members of the local and national media.

 

Last night, after Beckett's shortest outing of the year, an embarrassing performance on a night meant to pay tribute to Carl Beane, everybody got their answers, delivered with discombobulated venom.

 

On the golf: "I spend my off days the way I want to spend them."

 

On his precious off days: "My off day is my off day."

 

On the booing: "I pitched like [expletive]. That's what happens. Smart fans."

 

More on the off days from the father of the year: "We get 18 off days a year. I think we deserve a little bit of time to ourselves."

 

Family must have been out of town, I guess.

 

Spare me the notion that the Red Sox can't get rid of a guy who gave them almost 200 innings of work last season. The franchise is a disgrace, and Beckett is reason No. 1 why they have been an international laughingstock (Hello, Anfield) for the past nine months. This team is going nowhere; poorly constructed, poorly managed, and poorly marketed. The Red Sox need Josh Beckett why again?

 

It's not that Beckett doesn't get it, he just doesn't care, and that is the most damning characteristic an athlete, someone who gets paid millions of dollars to achieve his greatest heights possible in order to help his team, can possess. But it isn't just his public perception that Beckett clearly doesn't care about. Last September proved he doesn't care about his team, causing his manager, trainers, and countless others to lose their jobs.

 

And he's still here. Why?

 

Ben Cherington now has the unenviable task of trying to find some team willing to take this infectious load off his hands. The Red Sox will have to eat a significant portion of Beckett's contract, but what else is new? Add it to the list.

 

If Beckett is here next month, it's a clear sign that the Red Sox don't care what you think either. Really, in many cases they don't, but they have now hit a critical crossroad. An ever-growing contingent of fans is beginning to realize the flapdoodle they're being fed, sold, and lied to about day after day. Did you see last night's "distribution" crowd? It was of course, another sellout, a lie that keeps perpetrating and makes you wonder what other kinds of deception they have under wraps.

 

So, the advice to John Henry and Co. is to make an attempt at winning back a fan base that has lost faith in anything happening at the corners of Brookline Ave. and Yawkey Way. Begin the cleansing you hardly completed last fall and you may soon rectify faith in the coming years, if indeed you even still own the team.

 

I have never witnessed a more hated team in Boston than the 2012 Boston Red Sox, and there is one, snarling way to, hopefully, begin a process that will give us something to cherish once again.

 

See ya, Josh.

 

 

 

While I always find it hard to disagree with Dojji's well thought out opinions, I have to agree with this article. Cut this useless punk from the team and you figuratively put his head on a halberd outside the gates known as the locker room door. Too many personalities like this have been able to come in and play the way they want to play and not play in a way that upholds the organization we devote so much of our daily lives. Is Josh the catalyst of the mutiny? Maybe maybe not but it's like going to prison and kicking the toughest guy there in the nuts, take control of the situation Red Sox.

[Brennan]

So let me understand this: you don't like the message, so you attack the messenger?

Whatever you think about Eric Wilbur, what he wrote makes a lot of sense this time. Most of it.

 

 

I've heard the "He's a joke" defense for every sports writer. It's the cheapest argument, if you don't agree with a writer, he's not credible.

[Dojji]

While I always find it hard to disagree with Dojji's well thought out opinions' date=' I have to agree with this article. Cut this useless punk from the team and you figuratively put his head on a halberd outside the gates known as the locker room door. Too many personalities like this have been able to come in and play the way they want to play and not play in a way that upholds the organization we devote so much of our daily lives. Is Josh the catalyst of the mutiny? Maybe maybe not but it's like going to prison and kicking the toughest guy there in the nuts, take control of the situation Red Sox.[/quote']

 

That's the strategy you use when you know all forms of reasonableness are proven futile. We're not there yet. So far the whole bone of contention is over off the field stuff combined with our histrionic media. We still don't know what real trouble looks like -- I promise you that.

 

Quite frankly people are overrating the nature of the problem right now with Beckett. This is not Carlos Zambrano. This is not Zack Greinke. This guy will not wind up on the restricted list. And I honestly think it's going to take a top-down sea change in direction and interest from the ownership to really solve the clubhouse problem. Sacrificing yet another highly talented SP isn't the answer there any more than moving Bard back to the bullpen is the fix-all there.

 

Honestly I'd be madder at Beckett for telling the FO and the fans to take a long walk off a short pier if I wasn't 99% convinced that the FO and the fans are the lion's share of the problem. We had a good management system 1 year ago and the fans called for it to be blown up -- and at the price of a HUGE blow to the prestige of the team, it was.

 

Now look what we have instead. A string and duct tape operation from the top down and the bottom up. For a team with this kind of payroll, history and prestige, everything I'm seeing from the ownership to the fans and everything in between is absolutely unacceptable. We can ask better of the owners, of the FO personnel, of the coaching staff, of the players, AND of ourselves.

[FredLynn]

I've heard the "He's a joke" defense for every sports writer. It's the cheapest argument' date=' if you don't agree with a writer, he's not credible.[/quote']

 

I admit that some of these guys phrase things to get attention. Sometimes because of that the message gets lost in the acidity of the delivery. Here, Wilbur is nearly entirely correct in what he wrote. He sounds just as pissed off as the fans do; thats why he resonates so much with a lot of people.

[Gringo]

That's the strategy you use when you know all forms of reasonableness are proven futile. We're not there yet. So far the whole bone of contention is over off the field stuff combined with our histrionic media. We still don't know what real trouble looks like -- I promise you that.

 

Quite frankly people are overrating the nature of the problem right now with Beckett. This is not Carlos Zambrano. This is not Zack Greinke. This guy will not wind up on the restricted list. And I honestly think it's going to take a top-down sea change in direction and interest from the ownership to really solve the clubhouse problem. Sacrificing yet another highly talented SP isn't the answer there any more than moving Bard back to the bullpen is the fix-all there.

 

Honestly I'd be madder at Beckett for telling the FO and the fans to take a long walk off a short pier if I wasn't 99% convinced that the FO and the fans are the lion's share of the problem. We had a good management system 1 year ago and the fans called for it to be blown up -- and at the price of a HUGE blow to the prestige of the team, it was.

 

Now look what we have instead. A string and duct tape operation from the top down and the bottom up. For a team with this kind of payroll, history and prestige, everything I'm seeing from the ownership to the fans and everything in between is absolutely unacceptable. We can ask better of the owners, of the FO personnel, of the coaching staff, of the players, AND of ourselves.

 

But that's the problem at hand- yes, we all know Beckett has the talent. But it's become increasingly clear that he just can't be bothered to nurture that talent or apply that talent. And when he has a bad outing, he comes across as apathetic about it, at best. At worst, he comes across as aloof, arrogant and contemptuous of fans.

 

There are many things wrong about the ball club, and if you have to put a face on it, you have to put Double Chin Beckett on it.

 

He's a disgrace to the uniform, and he needs to be removed from the ball club.

[jung]

While trading Beckett may not seem to be a specific cure to anything related to the Sox it may end up being addition by subtraction...it may be the only cure for Beckett himself who seems to have worked himself into the classic "needs change of scenery" spot. I just don't think he wants to be here for one thing and I also think he has figured out how to make even more money out of his departure under less than ideal circumstances than he will make if he stays. Lets face it, his money is guaranteed so anything more he makes is all gravy.

 

While Beckett may not be Carlos Zambrano at the end of the day when everything comes out in the wash, we may "MAY" well end up saying that Beckett was one of the most calculating and devious players to come through this place since...since...well I don't know who....He may surely end up making the other Red Sox Texas Tough Guy Roger Clemens look like a boy scout when this is all said and done. Surely I am speculating here and I will not claim it to be more than that. However the signs are not good. One of these days we might end up drawing comparisons between Beckett, Lackey and Clemens with interesting results with regard to their differences and their similarities.

[Brennan]

We'll just have to agree to disagree.