Red Sox 2012 Season Overview

[Palodios]

He's talking about the self-proclaimed King Of Talksox.

 

Woah woah woah, I didn't name any names.

[a700hitter]

Woah woah woah' date=' I didn't name any names. [/quote']A king would not lower himself to the level of a GM.

[jung]

Now that Bard has been converted, it makes no sense to pull the plug on the project because Bailey got injured.

 

As tempting as it might seem I would not pull the plug either. It is just so easy to look at bull pen issues and go overboard trying to solve them cause they tend to stick out like a sore thumb. Guy comes in...supposed to put out the fire and...boom...kablam....pow....turns into a blazing inferno.

 

There is only so much one guy coming out of the pen can do. Right now the Sox have so many question marks there, it would be hard to decide where to put Bard even if he was there. For example if you put him into the 7th inning, maybe to put out a fire, how tempting would it be to keep him going maybe all the way to the ninth. Well then what have you done? You have just about used him enough to have to put him on the shelf for a few days.

 

We look at Bard's stuff and that is what seems to suggest he should close. The Sox do have guys with stuff though and I think Bard does not offer more than they do in that Bard is likely to be shaky for the first few batters as any of them. That is the real problem in my view with just inserting Bard's name as closer and thinking you have solved the problem. He is not a sure fire solution. He just looks more appealing than what they have done to date.

 

The Sox are starting to make some sense of their pen I think. I would not pull the plug on Bard and I know that is not a popular view.

[FredLynn]

A king would not lower himself to the level of a GM.

 

I agree Your Highness.

 

:clap:

[RedSoxNC84]

Crawford on the 60 day DL.. Think that has anything to do with his injury, and not just making room for Cook?

[Palodios]

Crawford on the 60 day DL.. Think that has anything to do with his injury' date=' and not just making room for Cook?[/quote']

 

If a player is out for more than 60 days, then it makes no sense for them to waste a spot on the 40 man roster. I don't think there is anything more to it than that.

[jung]

Time for reinforcements...not because the season is shot but because the Sox are playing stupid, uninspired baseball and they are just going to throw away baseball games playing like this. They can't wait for CC and Ells to get back because it will be to late by then.

 

While the pitching has been an easy target I for one don't understand why people expected so much from these starters. Lester has choked on the responsibilities of a #1 for two years running now. Never mind the "its early ********". He was supposed to step up to the task last year and things are no better this year...may even be worse. NESN homer Gammons somehow came out of tonight's game declaring that Lester looks like he is ready to go on a run...based on what? Beckett is a solid 2. Buch is in my view not going to return to the lofty position he had a couple years ago. Our highlights are at 4 and 5 but when your highlights are at 4 and 5 that tells you how bad things are. Anyway I don't see it and didn't before the season started. They are not disappointing me yet because I did not expect that much of them.

 

For me the issue is the offense. This team was designed to win with offense and the offense is simply not good enough. They are good hitters but they are not smart hitters and good hitters will not get you that far. d-mac is a joke. Salty is d-mac with power (if and when he connects). Ross is starting to come down to earth as is Aviles. Ortiz is beginning to swing at high inside pitches again. That is not his pitch and is the pitch that by his own admission was his downfall. AGons is finding his Fenway stroke again which is a good sign. Frankly none of this is enough.

 

It is time to bring up Iggy and move Aviles to the outfield which allows us to get rid of d-mac. Aviles immediately becomes the best and in fact only arm they would have in the outfield. We knew that they had no arms in the outfield to begin and they still won't when CC and Ells return. Notice how far home plate seems from anywhere a Sox outfielder throws the ball? This keeps Aviles bat in the lineup and gives us Iggy at SS. Iggy for d-mac is a wash offensively. Then lets bring up Lavarnway. Salty is done. He can't hit and can't field. It is time.

 

We end up with WMB, Iggy, Pedey and Agons around the horn. Aviles, Byrd and Sweeney or Ross would man the outfield. Shoppach or Lavarnway behind the plate. Ross is beginning to come down to earth and the ball is finding him wherever he is in the outfield. His defense has been putrid and Sweeney's is not much better.

 

It is time to get some young aggressive guys playing for these Red Sox. These slumbering, lumbering vets are not getting it done. Agons is coming around a little at the plate but shows no signs of any power and now has started to make dumb plays in the field. At least with WMB, Iggy and Pedey minding the left side and middle infield we will have an exciting defense that will inspire our pitchers and will make life way easier for our newest guy, Cook. At least with Aviles out there we will have one good outfield arm. That is one more than we have now. Time for this team to start to play baseball a different way because the way they are playing now isn't workin'.

 

As far as the offense is concerned we should be just about the same as far as power is concerned but with much better speed and more ability to move runners. Our defense would be much improved and we can look forward to stopping some of the utter nonsense going on particularly in the outfield. This may have the added advantage of saving Pedey's life as he is about to have a coronary. I don't know how many people got a chance to see Pedey leaving the dugout after tonight's loss. I just got a lucky glimpse of him. I would be totally shocked if he did not lose it when he finally got into the clubhouse tonight. I have never seen him that frustrated and angry leaving the dugout. V caught it and tried to give Pedey a little pat on the behind but Pedey was having none of it.

[redsoxbeatz]

Love this post, jung. ^^^

 

I agree, it's time to put some new blood out on the field & mix things up even more.

 

I sure hope Ortiz keeps his April success...

[jung]

I think Ortiz will keep it up, maybe not at this torrid pace because who can keep up such a pace. However he knows he cannot hit that high inside pitch. If pitchers throw it for a strike with two strikes he has not choice but to swing at it but I do think he will stop swinging at it with less than two strikes. He just started getting snookered by that pitch again but like I said he is absolutely convinced that swinging at that pitch was a huge contributor to his problems last year and watching him swing at again the last day or two brings back memories for me also. I am totally convinced he will get that under control.

[mvp 78]

Pinch hitting Salty for Shoppach with a LHP on the mound. BV, you really are a genius!

[Bellhorn04]

Time for reinforcements...not because the season is shot but because the Sox are playing stupid, uninspired baseball and they are just going to throw away baseball games playing like this. They can't wait for CC and Ells to get back because it will be to late by then.

 

While the pitching has been an easy target I for one don't understand why people expected so much from these starters. Lester has choked on the responsibilities of a #1 for two years running now. Never mind the "its early ********". He was supposed to step up to the task last year and things are no better this year...may even be worse. NESN homer Gammons somehow came out of tonight's game declaring that Lester looks like he is ready to go on a run...based on what? Beckett is a solid 2. Buch is in my view not going to return to the lofty position he had a couple years ago. Our highlights are at 4 and 5 but when your highlights are at 4 and 5 that tells you how bad things are. Anyway I don't see it and didn't before the season started. They are not disappointing me yet because I did not expect that much of them.

 

For me the issue is the offense. This team was designed to win with offense and the offense is simply not good enough. They are good hitters but they are not smart hitters and good hitters will not get you that far. d-mac is a joke. Salty is d-mac with power (if and when he connects). Ross is starting to come down to earth as is Aviles. Ortiz is beginning to swing at high inside pitches again. That is not his pitch and is the pitch that by his own admission was his downfall. AGons is finding his Fenway stroke again which is a good sign. Frankly none of this is enough.

 

It is time to bring up Iggy and move Aviles to the outfield which allows us to get rid of d-mac. Aviles immediately becomes the best and in fact only arm they would have in the outfield. We knew that they had no arms in the outfield to begin and they still won't when CC and Ells return. Notice how far home plate seems from anywhere a Sox outfielder throws the ball? This keeps Aviles bat in the lineup and gives us Iggy at SS. Iggy for d-mac is a wash offensively. Then lets bring up Lavarnway. Salty is done. He can't hit and can't field. It is time.

 

We end up with WMB, Iggy, Pedey and Agons around the horn. Aviles, Byrd and Sweeney or Ross would man the outfield. Shoppach or Lavarnway behind the plate. Ross is beginning to come down to earth and the ball is finding him wherever he is in the outfield. His defense has been putrid and Sweeney's is not much better.

 

It is time to get some young aggressive guys playing for these Red Sox. These slumbering, lumbering vets are not getting it done. Agons is coming around a little at the plate but shows no signs of any power and now has started to make dumb plays in the field. At least with WMB, Iggy and Pedey minding the left side and middle infield we will have an exciting defense that will inspire our pitchers and will make life way easier for our newest guy, Cook. At least with Aviles out there we will have one good outfield arm. That is one more than we have now. Time for this team to start to play baseball a different way because the way they are playing now isn't workin'.

 

As far as the offense is concerned we should be just about the same as far as power is concerned but with much better speed and more ability to move runners. Our defense would be much improved and we can look forward to stopping some of the utter nonsense going on particularly in the outfield. This may have the added advantage of saving Pedey's life as he is about to have a coronary. I don't know how many people got a chance to see Pedey leaving the dugout after tonight's loss. I just got a lucky glimpse of him. I would be totally shocked if he did not lose it when he finally got into the clubhouse tonight. I have never seen him that frustrated and angry leaving the dugout. V caught it and tried to give Pedey a little pat on the behind but Pedey was having none of it.

 

Good stuff Mr. jung.

[iortiz]

Time for reinforcements...not because the season is shot but because the Sox are playing stupid, uninspired baseball and they are just going to throw away baseball games playing like this. They can't wait for CC and Ells to get back because it will be to late by then.

 

While the pitching has been an easy target I for one don't understand why people expected so much from these starters. Lester has choked on the responsibilities of a #1 for two years running now. Never mind the "its early ********". He was supposed to step up to the task last year and things are no better this year...may even be worse. NESN homer Gammons somehow came out of tonight's game declaring that Lester looks like he is ready to go on a run...based on what? Beckett is a solid 2. Buch is in my view not going to return to the lofty position he had a couple years ago. Our highlights are at 4 and 5 but when your highlights are at 4 and 5 that tells you how bad things are. Anyway I don't see it and didn't before the season started. They are not disappointing me yet because I did not expect that much of them.

 

For me the issue is the offense. This team was designed to win with offense and the offense is simply not good enough. They are good hitters but they are not smart hitters and good hitters will not get you that far. d-mac is a joke. Salty is d-mac with power (if and when he connects). Ross is starting to come down to earth as is Aviles. Ortiz is beginning to swing at high inside pitches again. That is not his pitch and is the pitch that by his own admission was his downfall. AGons is finding his Fenway stroke again which is a good sign. Frankly none of this is enough.

 

It is time to bring up Iggy and move Aviles to the outfield which allows us to get rid of d-mac. Aviles immediately becomes the best and in fact only arm they would have in the outfield. We knew that they had no arms in the outfield to begin and they still won't when CC and Ells return. Notice how far home plate seems from anywhere a Sox outfielder throws the ball? This keeps Aviles bat in the lineup and gives us Iggy at SS. Iggy for d-mac is a wash offensively. Then lets bring up Lavarnway. Salty is done. He can't hit and can't field. It is time.

 

We end up with WMB, Iggy, Pedey and Agons around the horn. Aviles, Byrd and Sweeney or Ross would man the outfield. Shoppach or Lavarnway behind the plate. Ross is beginning to come down to earth and the ball is finding him wherever he is in the outfield. His defense has been putrid and Sweeney's is not much better.

 

It is time to get some young aggressive guys playing for these Red Sox. These slumbering, lumbering vets are not getting it done. Agons is coming around a little at the plate but shows no signs of any power and now has started to make dumb plays in the field. At least with WMB, Iggy and Pedey minding the left side and middle infield we will have an exciting defense that will inspire our pitchers and will make life way easier for our newest guy, Cook. At least with Aviles out there we will have one good outfield arm. That is one more than we have now. Time for this team to start to play baseball a different way because the way they are playing now isn't workin'.

 

As far as the offense is concerned we should be just about the same as far as power is concerned but with much better speed and more ability to move runners. Our defense would be much improved and we can look forward to stopping some of the utter nonsense going on particularly in the outfield. This may have the added advantage of saving Pedey's life as he is about to have a coronary. I don't know how many people got a chance to see Pedey leaving the dugout after tonight's loss. I just got a lucky glimpse of him. I would be totally shocked if he did not lose it when he finally got into the clubhouse tonight. I have never seen him that frustrated and angry leaving the dugout. V caught it and tried to give Pedey a little pat on the behind but Pedey was having none of it.

 

Whether this is a bridge year or not, letting your fresh blood play everyday is the best thing we can do these days.

 

I agree, let Iggy, Lav, Midd and Sweeney play everyday and forget about the platoon ********; at least these guys will gain a lot of expirence looking forward regardless you can realize for once and for all whether you want to use them as trade chips or keep them in the future.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I agree with Jung. To quote Joe Casteglione, "Can you believe it?!?"

 

Anyway - I have a few tweaks to it. First off - Keep Salty as your backup, not Shoppach. Shoppach is K'ing at an unreal rate. 16 K's in 33 AB. That's almost 50% of his AB that end in a K.

 

Kind of to go along with that, Lavarnway isn't exactly cruising down in AAA. He's hitting .238/.344/.338. Having said that, I love that OBP and you never know what a shot of adrenaline will do when a player gets called up.

 

Iglesias had 2 knocks in yesterdays game (Double, Triple), and 2 RBI. At this point, this entire team needs a shake up, so I'm fine with that move.

 

Moves to be made: DFA Darnell, DFA Shoppach. Call up Iglesias. Call up Lavarnway.

 

Lineup vs RHP:

Aviles

Sweeney

Pedroia

Gonzo

Ortiz

Lavarnway

Middlebrooks

Byrd/Ross

Iglesias

 

Lineup vs LHP:

Aviles

Middlebrooks

Gonzo

Pedroia

Ortiz

Lavarnway

Ross

Middlebrooks

Iglesias

 

Give me those players over these players all day anyday.

[jung]

I agree, let Iggy, Lav, Midd and Sweeney play everyday and forget about the platoon ********; at least these guys will gain a lot of expirence looking forward regardless you can realize for once and for all whether you want to use them as trade chips or keep them for the future.

 

I have got to admit that I got pretty close to not even thinkin' about this idea any longer because it seemed to me that V or the Sox in general have been reluctant to try Aviles out there even though he put in extra time in the offseason getting more outfield seasoning. Figured if the Sox were not going to even give Mike a shot out there, that was that.

 

But d-mac is so terrible and if we had not sent Iggy down a couple of days ago, the Sox had everything in place to give this a try, including Cook starting today. So it is not at all something like giving up on the season nor is it a panic move. Injuries have created an opportunity to make enough changes to end up playing a different brand of baseball with those guys on the field and that has got to be worth a shot I would think. It does not end up requiring that the Sox take Aviles and his bat off the field to end up with a really great defensive infield, more speed and hopefully the ability to play a somewhat different brand of baseball. The Sox would likely end up with an upgrade defensively in the outfield as well because of Aviles arm.

 

I would bet that the Sox would be already trying this but they must be really reluctant to give Aviles a try in the outfield. I sure don't know why under the circumstances but that is probably the fly in the ointment.

[pedroias laser]

Sad to say but this is the bridge year and rebuilding phase. I did not expect alot this year other then competing but i guess that's not happening.

[Station 13]

I agree with Jung. To quote Joe Casteglione, "Can you believe it?!?"

 

Anyway - I have a few tweaks to it. First off - Keep Salty as your backup, not Shoppach. Shoppach is K'ing at an unreal rate. 16 K's in 33 AB. That's almost 50% of his AB that end in a K.

 

Kind of to go along with that, Lavarnway isn't exactly cruising down in AAA. He's hitting .238/.344/.338. Having said that, I love that OBP and you never know what a shot of adrenaline will do when a player gets called up.

 

Iglesias had 2 knocks in yesterdays game (Double, Triple), and 2 RBI. At this point, this entire team needs a shake up, so I'm fine with that move.

 

Moves to be made: DFA Darnell, DFA Shoppach. Call up Iglesias. Call up Lavarnway.

 

Lineup vs RHP:

Aviles

Sweeney

Pedroia

Gonzo

Ortiz

Lavarnway

Middlebrooks

Byrd/Ross

Iglesias

 

Lineup vs LHP:

Aviles

Middlebrooks

Gonzo

Pedroia

Ortiz

Lavarnway

Ross

Middlebrooks

Iglesias

 

Give me those players over these players all day anyday.

 

Ortiz need to hit 3rd though.

[example1]

Get off the ledge folks. Its the first week of May. Plenty of issues with the team, plenty of issues with lots of teams. Everyone was convinced that the Angels would be the Sox main competition for the 5th playoff spot. They have flaws too. Let's see how the season plays itself out. Perhaps the Sox will be very aggressive and make some moves.

[iortiz]

I have got to admit that I got pretty close to not even thinkin' about this idea any longer because it seemed to me that V or the Sox in general have been reluctant to try Aviles out there even though he put in extra time in the offseason getting more outfield seasoning. Figured if the Sox were not going to even give Mike a shot out there, that was that.

 

But d-mac is so terrible and if we had not sent Iggy down a couple of days ago, the Sox had everything in place to give this a try, including Cook starting today. So it is not at all something like giving up on the season nor is it a panic move. Injuries have created an opportunity to make enough changes to end up playing a different brand of baseball with those guys on the field and that has got to be worth a shot I would think. It does not end up requiring that the Sox take Aviles and his bat off the field to end up with a really great defensive infield, more speed and hopefully the ability to play a somewhat different brand of baseball. The Sox would likely end up with an upgrade defensively in the outfield as well because of Aviles arm.

 

I would bet that the Sox would be already trying this but they must be really reluctant to give Aviles a try in the outfield. I sure don't know why under the circumstances but that is probably the fly in the ointment.

 

Totally agree jung.

 

Hell you and some other posters around here have better ideas than our current FO.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Get off the ledge folks. Its the first week of May. Plenty of issues with the team' date=' plenty of issues with lots of teams. Everyone was convinced that the Angels would be the Sox main competition for the 5th playoff spot. They have flaws too. Let's see how the season plays itself out. Perhaps the Sox will be very aggressive and make some moves.[/quote']

 

I'm telling you right now. This is the 2010 Red Sox made over. The offseason smelled like it. The injuries smell like it. And now the season smells like it.

 

Hell. Maybe they'll win 89 games like the 2010 Sox did and make the PS, but that team overachieved.

[Bellhorn04]

Totally agree jung.

 

Hell you and some other posters around here have better ideas than our current FO.

 

In fairness to the FO, making the actual decisions is more difficult to do when it's real life and final and irrevocable. They don't have the luxury of being wrong with impunity like us. For example the folks who said they should have let Ortiz walk, well, they can just shrug, laugh and move on.

[iortiz]

In fairness to the FO' date=' making the actual decisions is more difficult to do when it's real life and final and irrevocable. They don't have the luxury of being wrong with impunity like us. For example the folks who said they should have let Ortiz walk, well, they can just shrug, laugh and move on.[/quote']

 

I still would have let walk Ortiz and sign arms. Do not get me wrong, I like Ortiz and he will perform, I said several times, but our priorities were not at offense. This is a very unbalanced team. Very.

 

We as fans can opine and put ideas. FO is paid very well in order to execute their ideas and "plans". That won't change. Sorry, I've seen better ideas in this board than the actual executed in our team. It is what it is.

[Bellhorn04]

I still would have let walk Ortiz and sign arms. Do not get me wrong, I like Ortiz and he will perform, I said several times, but our priorities were not at offense. This is a very unbalanced team. Very.

 

We as fans can opine and put ideas. FO is paid very well in order to execute their ideas and "plans". That won't change. Sorry, I've seen better ideas in this board than the actual executed in our team. It is what it is.

 

I have no problem with anything you said there. I think it's great that fans get to come on here and express their opinions about what should be done. I've been on the 'dump Salty' bandwagon so I certainly do it too.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

I still would have let walk Ortiz and sign arms. Do not get me wrong, I like Ortiz and he will perform, I said several times, but our priorities were not at offense. This is a very unbalanced team. Very.

 

We as fans can opine and put ideas. FO is paid very well in order to execute their ideas and "plans". That won't change. Sorry, I've seen better ideas in this board than the actual executed in our team. It is what it is.

 

What a joke of a post.

 

Anyone ever tell you that hindsight is 20/20?

[SoxFanForsyth]

What a joke of a post.

 

Anyone ever tell you that hindsight is 20/20?

 

Actually, Ortiz was screaming from the tops of the mountains all offseason that this team needed more pitching. Both he and a700 were yelling it. I thought they'd be fine because of how poorly Lackey and Wake and the entire back of the rotation threw.

 

I was wrong. This team needed more pitching. But I'm not sure this was the offseason to go about getting it. I think the Sox have their sights locked in on Cole Hamels this year.

 

And I said it in a different thread. Don't be surprised if the Sox have another 2011 Offseason, where they go out and get 2 studs. This time it will likely be SP. Sign Cole Hamels and a guy like Matt Garza. Maybe sign Matt Garza and trade for a guy like Felix or Lincecum.

 

I know that sounds crazy right now, but trading for Gonzo and signing Crawford sounded crazy last offseason.

[iortiz]

I have no problem with anything you said there. I think it's great that fans get to come on here and express their opinions about what should be done. I've been on the 'dump Salty' bandwagon so I certainly do it too.

 

Yup, we can't do other than that.

 

About Salty, I would bring Lav and at very most let Salty be your back up.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Any random clown can log onto a message board and pound away on a keyboard about his team needs more pitching. That's like logging onto a political website and saying that the economy needs to get better.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Any random clown can log onto a message board and pound away on a keyboard about his team needs more pitching. That's like logging onto a political website and saying that the economy needs to get better.

 

Then I guess it's not hindsight, is it? Which is the entire argument against your original post.

[iortiz]

Actually, Ortiz was screaming from the tops of the mountains all offseason that this team needed more pitching. Both he and a700 were yelling it. I thought they'd be fine because of how poorly Lackey and Wake and the entire back of the rotation threw.

 

I was wrong. This team needed more pitching. But I'm not sure this was the offseason to go about getting it. I think the Sox have their sights locked in on Cole Hamels this year.

 

And I said it in a different thread. Don't be surprised if the Sox have another 2011 Offseason, where they go out and get 2 studs. This time it will likely be SP. Sign Cole Hamels and a guy like Matt Garza. Maybe sign Matt Garza and trade for a guy like Felix or Lincecum.

 

I know that sounds crazy right now, but trading for Gonzo and signing Crawford sounded crazy last offseason.

 

Thanks SFF.

 

J_E, 2011 Red Sox team scenario/circumstances are totally different than this 2012 team. Beyond your fandom, Do you really expect the same 2011 scenario this year? really? Call me pessimist but I see so many holes/underperformance in our current team. At very most IMO we will finish close to .500 (up/down) before the Allstar game. Is this going to be enough to stay close in the run, IDK.

[FredLynn]

Get off the ledge folks. Its the first week of May. Plenty of issues with the team' date=' plenty of issues with lots of teams. Everyone was convinced that the Angels would be the Sox main competition for the 5th playoff spot. They have flaws too. Let's see how the season plays itself out. Perhaps the Sox will be very aggressive and make some moves.[/quote']

 

Hey-nobody's on the ledge. Its May, the weather is just about perfect and everything is blooming out there. But as far as the Red Sox go, its becoming obvious to more and more people that this version of the team stinks. Since last Aug 31 this team is 18-33.ESPN gives us a 25% chance of making the playoffs; a bit high, but not too far off. Too many people have grossly overestimated how talented we are. Our pitching remains second to last in the AL and our offense is feast or famine. Our FO hasn't got a clue as to how to run a ML team, and our owner couldn't care less as long as his paychecks keep coming in. The fans see it: they are voting with their feet. Tickets previously unavailable are now readily available at less than face value, and open seats have begun to appear at the ball park. The media and the fans are not stupid; we can see what is going on here. Certainly we are not the only team with issues and holes, but ours have put us in LAST PLACE while other teams seem to cope much better. There are too many problems with this team to fix in one season; that isn't going to happen. Not this year. And never, unless they get rid of Cherington and Lucchino and hire people that are competent. Their version of "getting aggressive" is to secure the likes of Germano and Cook and Padilla and Ohlendorf and Silva and Prior to fix the pitching problems that have been KNOWN since last year. I shudder to think what would result if they got "agressive" again at the trading deadline.

Nope. No one is on a ledge. Most folks here are enjoying life as far as I can tell. Life will go on even though the Red Sox are in last place and likely to stay closer to last place than first his year. So enough with the labelling people who objectively analyze this team as "on a ledge". You guys can be optimistic if you like; you will get no objections from me. Have at it. And don't tell me that I and other like minded fans are "on a ledge". Thats BS.

[Brennan]

What Pumpsie said.

 

 

If you think it gets old listening to people with realistic views of the team, you should try the other side.