Red Sox 2012 Season Overview

[jung]

I am not sure where Mazz is going with this. Maybe we make the playoffs....if we don't look like we will we could be sellers....no s*** sherlock.

 

I agree that there is no middle class in the league this year which is why I have commented that I think some of the team records at the end of this season could be staggeringly bad.

 

As for Mazz's predictions for players....the only guy I think will not be here is Iggy. I still think they will trade Iggy regardless of what Aviles is doing as Iggy is not the prototypical Sox SS and he is not going to be by next year. He needs about 40-50 points of BA to get there regardless of how good a defender he is and I don't think there is much chance of that happening. I don't like it but it is not my decision and I don't see the Sox changing in this regard.

 

No question that the Sox will be cutting away a good deal of what may already be dead wood for next season but I don't understand why that would be much of a surprise either. UN has been talking about that for months and months now and probably others....he comes to might right away.

 

By the way...I think Salty fans are few and far between so I am not sure that band wagon wasn't pretty crowded before this season.

[SoxFanForsyth]

What i am arguing about Mazz's article is his assertion that the Red Sox are rebuilding. Don't you think that if they were, they would have had Lavarnway and WMB up to start the season after jettisoning the expensive Youkilis and Salty?

 

About the Bard point, i just don't think it makes sense in general. Bard becoming a starter was initially a request by Bard, and sacrificing the project so early makes no sense.

 

Also, i don't know if you noticed, but i wasn't directly replying to your post, but rather making a general comment. That's what the quote function is for. I'm not ignoring anything. Read things in context.

 

This is not true. The Sox went to Bard and asked what he wanted to do. He said "I'd like to start or close and I think I can be good at either one of them". The Sox chose for him to start. If the Sox moved him back to closing, they wouldn't be doing anything against his original request.

 

And it looked as though you were responding to me, because it was exactly what I posted about.

[Palodios]

This is not true. The Sox went to Bard and asked what he wanted to do. He said "I'd like to start or close and I think I can be good at either one of them". The Sox chose for him to start. If the Sox moved him back to closing, they wouldn't be doing anything against his original request.

 

And it looked as though you were responding to me, because it was exactly what I posted about.

 

In all fairness, Bard clearly wasn't happy about being moved to the bullpen a few weeks ago.

[SoxFanForsyth]

In all fairness' date=' Bard clearly wasn't happy about being moved to the bullpen a few weeks ago.[/quote']

 

I think that was more a function of him not wanting to go back and forth. If they said "Bard, you're our closer." I don't think he'd have as much of an issue with it.

[User Name]

This is not true. The Sox went to Bard and asked what he wanted to do. He said "I'd like to start or close and I think I can be good at either one of them". The Sox chose for him to start. If the Sox moved him back to closing, they wouldn't be doing anything against his original request.

 

And it looked as though you were responding to me, because it was exactly what I posted about.

 

It doesn't matter what it looked like. I didn't quote you, or mention you by name.

 

Also, you couldn't be farther from the truth. The Bard from the rotation project was initiated by Bard, not the Sox.

 

Straight from the horse's mouth

[jung]

Well if he was hurt when he landed it is likely worse than if he bruised it running into the wall. Landing on it wrong sounds more like ligament or cartilage damage, maybe just a ligament strain which would likely be the least worrisome issue. Carted off does not sound good. Sounds like he could not put any weight on it.

 

I have begun to wonder what teams think about these none competition related injuries whether like this one or while engaged in activity that is not even baseball related. Shagging flies is OK. However I know going to the wall is "fun". It is a neat thing to do when shagging flies if you don't have anything better to do. Sounds like it might turn out to be costly fun this time.

[SoxFanForsyth]

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/red-sox/post/_/id/16638/bard-discusses-his-transition-to-starter

 

At the 1:50 mark. He says "In our (him and BobbyV) first conversation, he said 'What do you want to do?' and I said 'I want to start or close, and I think I can do either one really well.'"

 

He did bring it up in the offseason, but when it came down to it and BobbyV asked him what he wanted to do, he said "I want to start or close".

 

And get your panties out of a wad on the whole quote thing. I posted 2 posts before your response. If you wanted to indicate that you were responding to the Mazz article, why didn't you quote it? Since you always quote what you're responding to, ya know? That would have probably been a good idea rather than just responding in general when there were multiple posts with the same subject.

[User Name]

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/red-sox/post/_/id/16638/bard-discusses-his-transition-to-starter

 

At the 1:50 mark. He says "In our (him and BobbyV) first conversation, he said 'What do you want to do?' and I said 'I want to start or close, and I think I can do either one really well.'"

 

He did bring it up in the offseason, but when it came down to it and BobbyV asked him what he wanted to do, he said "I want to start or close".

 

And get your panties out of a wad on the whole quote thing. Dear Lord. It's a minor mistake, drama queen.

 

Hey, you're the one who came out looking like you needed some Midol "You're ignoring what i say" all teared up.

 

Also, when Bobby V got to Boston, the Bard-asked-to-be-a-starter rumor was already floating around. That's just a confirmation. Look at the whole video i posted, all he talks about is starting and how he likes it better than the BP. It's obvious.

[FredLynn]

Well if he was hurt when he landed it is likely worse than if he bruised it running into the wall. Landing on it wrong sounds more like ligament or cartilage damage, maybe just a ligament strain which would likely be the least worrisome issue. Carted off does not sound good. Sounds like he could not put any weight on it.

 

I have begun to wonder what teams think about these none competition related injuries whether like this one or while engaged in activity that is not even baseball related. Shagging flies is OK. However I know going to the wall is "fun". It is a neat thing to do when shagging flies if you don't have anything better to do. Sounds like it might turn out to be costly fun this time.

 

I moved the post with the link to the "This needs to be said" thread, which is where the discussion is buried. I agree: it looked ugly. When your knee gives out like that its usually ligament/cartilage. Hitting the wall could be a simple bruise. I wish him the best of luck in his recovery. He is a great player and a class act.

[User Name]

I moved the post with the link to the "This needs to be said" thread' date=' which is where the discussion is buried. I agree: it looked ugly. When your knee gives out like that its usually ligament/cartilage. Hitting the wall could be a simple bruise. I wish him the best of luck in his recovery. He is a great player and a class act.[/quote']

 

He's the one Yankee player i really like, although i would never, ever go swimming in his pool.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Hey, you're the one who came out looking like you needed some Midol "You're ignoring what i say" all teared up.

 

Also, when Bobby V got to Boston, the Bard-asked-to-be-a-starter rumor was already floating around. That's just a confirmation. Look at the whole video i posted, all he talks about is starting and how he likes it better than the BP. It's obvious.

 

He talks about the differences, yes. But like I said - He wanted to either be a starter, or a closer. Sticking him in his old 8th inning role? Yes, I could see how he'd be pissed. But if you stuck in in the closer role, he would initially be upset but would be in a role that he had previously indicated that he would like to be in.

[User Name]

He talks about the differences' date=' yes. But like I said - He wanted to either be a starter, or a closer. Sticking him in his old 8th inning role? Yes, I could see how he'd be pissed. But if you stuck in in the closer role, he would initially be upset but would be in a role that he had previously indicated that he would like to be in.[/quote']

 

Did you watch the whole video i posted though? He didn't wanna be in the bullpen, he wanted to be a starter. And again, he had asked to be a starter way before the possibility of him being a closer even surfaced.

[FredLynn]

He's the one Yankee player i really like' date=' although i would never, ever go swimming in his pool.[/quote']

 

He and Jeter have always been very professional IMO. They are both deserving of the respect you give a worthy adversary, but not only would I not swim in their pool, but I would not allow them in mine.

[jung]

Did you watch the whole video i posted though? He didn't wanna be in the bullpen, he wanted to be a starter. And again, he had asked to be a starter way before the possibility of him being a closer even surfaced.

 

I guess the only thing I would add to this discussion is that I am not convinced that Bard's desire is the only or even the key element to the Sox decision to have him start. Aceves wanted to start and said so. Is he starting?

 

The team owns your contract...they are going to decide what you are going to do. I think the Sox saw it as in their best interests to develop Bard as a starter mainly because that is what returned the most value to the Sox and possibly because they decided for whatever reason that continuing Bard on the path to be a closer was not going like they wanted it to go. I have no knowledge to support the latter but the former would seem obvious.

 

I do think that Bards desire to start helps but what pitcher does not want to start if he can?

 

Look at this another way. If the Sox were simply going to roll over and develop every pitcher they have that wanted to start, the line would be out the door and down the street. Anyway this is just my opinion but I just think it odd that we would think the Sox would roll over for Daniel Bard.

[User Name]

I guess the only thing I would add to this discussion is that I am not convinced that Bard's desire is the only or even the key element to the Sox decision to have him start. Aceves wanted to start and said so. Is he starting?

 

The team owns your contract...they are going to decide what you are going to do. I think the Sox saw it as in their best interests to develop Bard as a starter mainly because that is what returned the most value to the Sox and possibly because they decided for whatever reason that continuing Bard on the path to be a closer was not going like they wanted it to go. I have no knowledge to support the latter but the former would seem obvious.

 

I do think that Bards desire to start helps but what pitcher does not want to start if he can?

 

Look at this another way. If the Sox were simply going to roll over and develop every pitcher they have that wanted to start, the line would be out the door and down the street. Anyway this is just my opinion but I just think it odd that we would think the Sox would roll over for Daniel Bard.

 

No one is saying the Sox rolled over for Bard. It was simply a perfect storm: Bard clearly preferred to start, and the need for him to be a starter, given the state of the pitching, arised.

 

Also, keep in mind that the Aceves example does not apply, because had Bard completely flunked out as an SP in Spring Training, we'd probably have Aceves starting games right now. So again, it's a combination of desire from the player plus necessity from the team.

 

Now that Bard has been converted, it makes no sense to pull the plug on the project because Bailey got injured.

[SCM33]

I think that was more a function of him not wanting to go back and forth. If they said "Bard' date=' you're our closer." I don't think he'd have as much of an issue with it.[/quote']

 

Hed have a huge issue with it.

[FredLynn]

Hed have a huge issue with it.

 

Who cares what Bard would or would not want? Aceves wanted to start too; so did Padilla. They are simply EMPLOYEES. They are expected to do what they are TOLD to do. Same as every New England Patriot employee.

This is part of the problem with this team. Its MEMEMEMEME. There is no "I" in "TEAM". If Bard refused to close I would trade him so fast it would make his head spin. We do not need MEFIRSTS on the team any more.

[User Name]

No one is saying the Sox rolled over for Bard. It was simply a perfect storm: Bard clearly preferred to start' date=' and the need for him to be a starter, given the state of the pitching, arised.[/b']

 

Also, keep in mind that the Aceves example does not apply, because had Bard completely flunked out as an SP in Spring Training, we'd probably have Aceves starting games right now. So again, it's a combination of desire from the player plus necessity from the team.

 

Now that Bard has been converted, it makes no sense to pull the plug on the project because Bailey got injured.

 

Who cares what Bard would or would not want? Aceves wanted to start too; so did Padilla. They are simply EMPLOYEES. They are expected to do what they are TOLD to do. Same as every New England Patriot employee.

This is part of the problem with this team. Its MEMEMEMEME. There is no "I" in "TEAM". If Bard refused to close I would trade him so fast it would make his head spin. We do not need MEFIRSTS on the team any more.

 

Also, i don't get where exactly do you get an honest, informed idea of the players' character regardless of what happened in '11. Sounds like a lot of reaching to me.

 

As for the rest of your post, you answer your own question. The Red Sox care more about what's good for the team than what the players want. They clearly thought Bard starting was better for the team long term.

[Bellhorn04]

Who cares what Bard would or would not want? Aceves wanted to start too; so did Padilla. They are simply EMPLOYEES. They are expected to do what they are TOLD to do. Same as every New England Patriot employee.

This is part of the problem with this team. Its MEMEMEMEME. There is no "I" in "TEAM". If Bard refused to close I would trade him so fast it would make his head spin. We do not need MEFIRSTS on the team any more.

 

Look, if the team didn't think it could be in their best interest to give Bard a shot at starting, he wouldn't be doing it.

[User Name]

Look' date=' if the team didn't think it could be in their best interest to give Bard a shot at starting, he wouldn't be doing it.[/quote']

 

Exactly. He mentions it in his post. Why isn't Aceves starting then?

[FredLynn]

Also, i don't get where exactly do you get an honest, informed idea of the players' character regardless of what happened in '11. Sounds like a lot of reaching to me.

 

As for the rest of your post, you answer your own question. The Red Sox care more about what's good for the team than what the players want. They clearly thought Bard starting was better for the team long term.

 

SCM posted that Bard would have a huge problem with going back to the pen. I was responding to that post and not assuming anything that Bard would or would not do because, as far as I know, he has not commented on it publicly. I made no assumptions about his character whatsoever. Hope that clears it up.

As for the Sox knowing what is best for this team, thats laughable. Look where they got us three years running. They are run by a bunch of buffoons in the FO. One buffoon left and another replaced him. Look at the bottom line.....and the bottom is where you will find our team right now.

[FredLynn]

Look' date=' if the team didn't think it could be in their best interest to give Bard a shot at starting, he wouldn't be doing it.[/quote']

 

I don't disagree with giving Bard a shot at starting.

Next year.

I disagree with the team's strategy.

[User Name]

SCM posted that Bard would have a huge problem with going back to the pen. I was responding to that post and not assuming anything that Bard would or would not do because, as far as I know, he has not commented on it publicly. I made no assumptions about his character whatsoever. Hope that clears it up.

As for the Sox knowing what is best for this team, thats laughable. Look where they got us three years running. They are run by a bunch of buffoons in the FO. One buffoon left and another replaced him. Look at the bottom line.....and the bottom is where you will find our team right now.

 

If it was better for the team long term, he would be in the bullpen. This is the ideal time for him to start. It's as simple as that. As for the rest of this post, no one is as effective as a couch manager, a Monday Night Quarterback or an internet GM.

[Bellhorn04]

I don't disagree with giving Bard a shot at starting.

Next year.

I disagree with the team's strategy.

 

That's fine, I can understand some disagreement. Personally I think this was a good time to give him a shot.

[User Name]

That's fine' date=' I can understand some disagreement. Personally I think this was a good time to give him a shot.[/quote']

 

There really wasn't a better time to give him a shot. There was a need, an opportunity, and with the clock running on his arb years, a financial motivation.

[FredLynn]

Look, it is common knowledge that there is room for only one Couch GM per board. Username has already conceded that on THIS board, the person is ME. Therefore, only I will decide what is best for this team-from the comfort and safety of my home.

Royals 4; Yankees 1.

[Palodios]

Look, it is common knowledge that there is room for only one Couch GM per board. Username has already conceded that on THIS board, the person is ME. Therefore, only I will decide what is best for this team-from the comfort and safety of my home.

 

Don't talk like that. You-know-who will get jealous:lol:

[User Name]

Don't talk like that. You-know-who will get jealous:lol:

 

Well played.

[FredLynn]

Don't talk like that. You-know-who will get jealous:lol:

 

I must be missing something.

[User Name]

I must be missing something.

 

He's talking about the self-proclaimed King Of Talksox.