How about Daniel Bard so far?

[mvp 78]

We're expecting a DL stint for Bard or to just option him to Pawtucket. Bard isn't ready to slide right into the pen.

[a700hitter]

We're expecting a DL stint for Bard or to just option him to Pawtucket. Bard isn't ready to slide right into the pen.

Who is we? I haven't read anything where the team is considering this. If he is DL'd for 15 days and then does a rehab stint to regain his effectiveness, they could be without his services for almost a month. I don't think that is the best thing for the team. I don't think the team has any options left on him to send him to the minors. He would never pass through waivers. If they don't DL him, because he has no injury and can't option him, who would you send down to bring up Germano?

[SoxFanForsyth]

Who is we? I haven't read anything where the team is considering this. If he is DL'd for 15 days and then does a rehab stint to regain his effectiveness' date=' they could be without his services for almost a month. I don't think that is the best thing for the team. I don't think the team has any options left on him to send him to the minors. He would never pass through waivers. If they don't DL him, because he has no injury and can't option him, who would you send down to bring up Germano?[/quote']

 

Have you seen his velocity?? You DL him with dead arm and nobody bats an eye. Give him a week off from throwing then put him in Pawtuckets bullpen for 7 games. Call up DiceK. It's a very natural transaction.

[jung]

Well Bard has had a number of issues some that followed him into this season from last and some that seem to have become an issue this year.

 

For example, he has not thrown with consistency now from part way through last season into this season. Haven't they been trying to find an arm angle for him to throw at that he can repeat? That sounds like something they would do and in fact I actually thought arm angle was one of the things they were fooling with in an effort to gain some consistency. Oh by the way, he has had consistency issues before last year that were pitching issues, not starting pitching issues.

 

I don't think they would change his arm angle in an effort to ratchet back the juice on his FB. If they did or if he did, that just sounds stupid.

 

Somewhere the Sox are going to have to deal with the fact that some of the stuff that has plagued Bard this year followed him here from last year and maybe earlier than that. So using him as the 5th starter has not had anything to do with that. Also I will say it again, when he is wild he is wild from pitch 1 in his stint. So I don't see where he can go back into some important role in the bullpen.

 

I still think he needs to go down a notch whether via DL or option and let him just try to push the reset button at a level in baseball where mechanics are dealt with on a regular basis. Frankly I have never thought he was a strong kid between the ears to begin with so he is a little fragile in that regard as well. So, for my money , if he has a career in baseball left, he needs to go down a notch, get out of the spotlight and try to get things figured out.

 

I actually think they do have an option left on Bard.

 

There is surely a chance that he just does not have it. There are tons of guys baggin' groceries that could throw 97 but could not hit the broad side of a barn consistently. It is not that unusual.

[OregonBostonian]

I would consider sending Bard down to get right. Admittedly, I'm not clear on the logistics of that move, but it seems to be the most logical move. OR, a 15 day DL stint to work it out. Any way you slice it, the kid's not right. Unfortunately, it seems to be a combo of physical mechanics & the head game with Bard.

 

Either way..... Moving him to the BP, Pawtucket, or DL there are issues. Bard was very weak at 92mph, with control issues. NOW, at 97+, he's downright dangerous & costly. So........ What do you do?

[a700hitter]

I would consider sending Bard down to get right. Admittedly, I'm not clear on the logistics of that move, but it seems to be the most logical move. OR, a 15 day DL stint to work it out. Any way you slice it, the kid's not right. Unfortunately, it seems to be a combo of physical mechanics & the head game with Bard.

 

Either way..... Moving him to the BP, Pawtucket, or DL there are issues. Bard was very weak at 92mph, with control issues. NOW, at 97+, he's downright dangerous & costly. So........ What do you do?

He has no options left. He can't be sent down. A DL stint means that he will be useless to the team for about a month taking into account the DL and the rehab. If they can't phony up an injury or they don't want to do that, which pitcher would you send down/release to bring up Germano?

[OregonBostonian]

 

The only thing I'm not sure about here, is where the issue "between the ears," as you put it, lies?

 

They say Bard is a bright kid???? He very well could be, but that does not mean that he is mentally STRONG!!!! I think he may lack the "mental toughness" needed to get "locked in?" If that is the case, where he simply can't stay locked in, then we are in big trouble with him. The ONLY course of action, is that is the case, is to move him to the BP, where he can have relative success, with minimal focus time. He readily admits having trouble maintaining focus over the course of a full game, as opposed to for one inning out of the pen. Perhaps he will never have it?

 

Not a total loss! I HOPE! There will be issues with the BP going forward this year. Bard could be a very good option!

 

Another option? Deal him to a team who can be patient with a young pitcher with big up side? Not there yet!

 

 

Well Bard has had a number of issues some that followed him into this season from last and some that seem to have become an issue this year.

 

For example, he has not thrown with consistency now from part way through last season into this season. Haven't they been trying to find an arm angle for him to throw at that he can repeat? That sounds like something they would do and in fact I actually thought arm angle was one of the things they were fooling with in an effort to gain some consistency. Oh by the way, he has had consistency issues before last year that were pitching issues, not starting pitching issues.

 

I don't think they would change his arm angle in an effort to ratchet back the juice on his FB. If they did or if he did, that just sounds stupid.

 

Somewhere the Sox are going to have to deal with the fact that some of the stuff that has plagued Bard this year followed him here from last year and maybe earlier than that. So using him as the 5th starter has not had anything to do with that. Also I will say it again, when he is wild he is wild from pitch 1 in his stint. So I don't see where he can go back into some important role in the bullpen.

 

I still think he needs to go down a notch whether via DL or option and let him just try to push the reset button at a level in baseball where mechanics are dealt with on a regular basis. Frankly I have never thought he was a strong kid between the ears to begin with so he is a little fragile in that regard as well. So, for my money , if he has a career in baseball left, he needs to go down a notch, get out of the spotlight and try to get things figured out.

 

I actually think they do have an option left on Bard.

 

There is surely a chance that he just does not have it. There are tons of guys baggin' groceries that could throw 97 but could not hit the broad side of a barn consistently. It is not that unusual.

[kapsis21]

I think the experiment of Bard starting needs to end soon or we end up loosing some games we shouldnt be loosing. I do agree that he has yet to give a bunch of HRs in 1 game yet he himself is causing his own demise walking guys left and right. that is just not a starting pitcher period.

in some of the starts it felt like he belonged but in others it felt like how is he a Starting pitcher for crying out loud.

his 1 inning stint in Minnesota was what he is good at doing. i have yet to feel comfortable when Bard takes the mound starting an inning. its even worse then Dicek and i cringed every time he nibbled. but with Bard there is no nibbling when he has no control.. he is just all over the place. cant have that kind of SP. if he doesn't like the 8-9 inning role give him 6-7 innings but he needs to go back to the bullpen.

[OregonBostonian]

I guess the DL???? BUT! I honestly don't know. I admit not being well versed on the "Option" issues, but the kid needs some serious help. Keeping him in the rotation puts major strains on the BP, and the team. I hate to say it, but our pitching coach seems clueless in getting through to Buch (nice last start though), Lester (who loses it over the slightest bad call), & Bard (just a bloody mess).

 

Funny???? Beckett thrives on the chaos! He does like being top dog!

 

My long term conspiracy theory is...... This Starting Rotation has been an absolute MESS since Lackey showed up! It's really all about Lackey still! His negative influence is still being felt. The whole "3 horsemen" thing led us to Dante's Inferno

 

Lackey is the anti__________

 

 

 

 

He has no options left. He can't be sent down. A DL stint means that he will be useless to the team for about a month taking into account the DL and the rehab. If they can't phony up an injury or they don't want to do that' date=' which pitcher would you send down/release to bring up Germano?[/quote']

[jung]

Bard has all three of his minor-league options remaining because he hasn't been in the minor leagues since the Red Sox placed him on the 40-man roster. But because more than three years have elapsed since Bard made his major-league debut, he would have to clear Optional Assignment Waivers.

 

If I am not mistaken, the way the Optional Assignment Waiver works, if he were claimed the Sox could revoke the option and could continue to use the optional assignment waiver through the current waiver period which started on the 31st day of the 2012 season and ends in August as I recall.

 

It is generally understood by general managers that a player on optional assignment waivers will not be claimed by another team. Bard might be attractive enough to prompt another team to break the gentleman's agreement.

 

However, the Sox can simply revoke the waiver if Bard were claimed which is why ML league teams don't break the gentlemen's agreement not to claim a player from Optional Assignment Waivers. It is a waste of time since the team can continue to use the Optional Assignment Waiver on the same player through the current waiver period. It just becomes a big circle jerk for the team trying to claim the player. Also if a player is claimed and his team does not revoke the waiver, the claiming team has to pay the player's entire salary.

[jung]

I did not mean to imply earlier that Bard is not a bright kid....I am not convinced that he is a tough kid. I don't think he is a confident kid even when he is pitching good. I think his confidence and his conviction are easily broached much like his focus on the mound is easily broached resulting in the Balk-a-thon we saw a couple weeks ago simply because a runner got on base.

 

Now using the Optional Assignment Waiver I discussed above may not be great for his confidence either but I still think he needs to solve this out of the limelight and he has to understand that he can't be put back on a ML mound pitching the way he is pitching right now.

[kapsis21]

I did not mean to imply earlier that Bard is not a bright kid....I am not convinced that he is a tough kid. I don't think he is a confident kid even when he is pitching good. I think his confidence and his conviction are easily broached much like his focus on the mound is easily broached resulting in the Balk-a-thon we saw a couple weeks ago simply because a runner got on base.

 

Now using the Optional Assignment Waiver I discussed above may not be great for his confidence either but I still think he needs to solve this out of the limelight and he has to understand that he can't be put back on a ML mound pitching the way he is pitching right now.

 

yep i agree to your assessment, but i still dont get how he can loose it in some starts and has full control in others. it baffles me that he himself is causing his own demise

[SoxSport]

Just saw the video with Gasper and Finn. The suggestion is he goes to Pawtucket to get unwound. Can they do that with no options? In my view, he should get unwound with some mid relief stints.

 

The feeling is increasing the front office blew it changing roles for him, even though they knew he had a minor league history of failing mentally as a starter. He was switched to reliever and thrived on it.

When you factor in Youks' switch to 3B and Ellsbury's switch to LF, none of these position changes have panned out for them.

[crowdseats]

Just saw the video with Gasper and Finn. The suggestion is he goes to Pawtucket to get unwound. Can they do that with no options? In my view, he should get unwound with some mid relief stints.

 

The feeling is increasing the front office blew it changing roles for him, even though they knew he had a minor league history of failing mentally as a starter. He was switched to reliever and thrived on it.

When you factor in Youks' switch to 3B and Ellsbury's switch to LF, none of these position changes have panned out for them.

 

Totally right about switching positions. Really is hard for players in this day and age to make such drastic changes, except for pitchers. I think Bard can do it if his position is defined and they stop flip flopping him.

[FredLynn]

We're expecting a DL stint for Bard or to just option him to Pawtucket. Bard isn't ready to slide right into the pen.

 

Who is "we"?

I am fully expecting Bard to continue to be in the rotation for a long time. Thats the way our FO operates. Bard is going nowhere any time soon.

[FredLynn]

Have you seen his velocity?? You DL him with dead arm and nobody bats an eye. Give him a week off from throwing then put him in Pawtuckets bullpen for 7 games. Call up DiceK. It's a very natural transaction.

 

I agree SFF...thats the logical thing to do. But its not going to happen because only Dojji and the FO still believe that Bard should be given more time. Our FO is incompetent and stubborn. Eventually their hand will be forced, but "we" are expecting that Bard is out their for his usual turn in the rotation on Saturday.

[FredLynn]

I guess the DL???? BUT! I honestly don't know. I admit not being well versed on the "Option" issues, but the kid needs some serious help. Keeping him in the rotation puts major strains on the BP, and the team. I hate to say it, but our pitching coach seems clueless in getting through to Buch (nice last start though), Lester (who loses it over the slightest bad call), & Bard (just a bloody mess).

 

Funny???? Beckett thrives on the chaos! He does like being top dog!

 

My long term conspiracy theory is...... This Starting Rotation has been an absolute MESS since Lackey showed up! It's really all about Lackey still! His negative influence is still being felt. The whole "3 horsemen" thing led us to Dante's Inferno

 

Lackey is the anti__________

 

Its not really that difficult. If the FO were smart, which they are not, they could easily fabricate a reason Bard is "injured". This happens all the time and its never investigated. Its clearly the right thing to do.

[BornToRun]

I think the FO might have a better idea what to do with Bard than any of us.

[VA Sox Fan]

I think the FO might have a better idea what to do with Bard than any of us.

 

No way! They are a bunch of idiot ass morons.

[User Name]

I think the FO might have a better idea what to do with Bard than any of us.

 

The armchair GM's know better. However, since Dice-K is about ready, they are right about moving him to the BP.

[jung]

V mentioned that he would be thinking about what to do next with Bard today since it is a day off. I would bet that we will not find anything out until later this week. Then once they get past Saturday the Sox really would not need a 5th starter again for a couple of weeks anyway if they want to go down that road.

[Station 13]

nickcafardo Red Sox brass will formulate plan on Daniel Bard's pitching woes tomorrow. Choices are bullpen, DL, option to minors or status quo. about 1 hour ago reply

[SoxFanForsyth]

nickcafardo Red Sox brass will formulate plan on Daniel Bard's pitching woes tomorrow. Choices are bullpen' date=' DL, option to minors or status quo. about 1 hour ago reply[/quote']

 

I'd be shocked if it's status quo. It'll probably be DL - Dead Arm. DiceK up.

[Bellhorn04]

Its not really that difficult. If the FO were smart' date=' which they are not[/b'], they could easily fabricate a reason Bard is "injured". This happens all the time and its never investigated. Its clearly the right thing to do.

 

No they would never think of that. Good God, the Red Sox have used the phantom DL plenty of times.

[User Name]

No they would never think of that. Good God' date=' the Red Sox have used the phantom DL plenty of times.[/quote']

 

Pumpsie's a smart guy, but good God sometimes he likes to punch logic right in the 'nads.

[FredLynn]

No they would never think of that. Good God' date=' the Red Sox have used the phantom DL plenty of times.[/quote']

 

I was not trying to imply that they didn't know HOW to fabricate an injury to send a player to the DL. Of course they do; they have done it many times already. I am saying that they are not smart enough to utilize that route in this situation, with Bard.

They still have time to come to their senses. Bard isn't scheduled to pitch until Saturday.

[VA Sox Fan]

No they would never think of that. Good God' date=' the Red Sox have used the phantom DL plenty of times.[/quote']

 

Seriously. I thought Dice-K and Lackey surgeries were phantom because they didn't know what else the hell to do with them considering they were sucking so badly.

 

edit: when in doubt, Tommy John surgery

[Bellhorn04]

I was not trying to imply that they didn't know HOW to fabricate an injury to send a player to the DL. Of course they do; they have done it many times already. I am saying that they are not smart enough to utilize that route in this situation, with Bard.

They still have time to come to their senses. Bard isn't scheduled to pitch until Saturday.

 

Another thing I have to point out about the Bard situation, without trying to downplay the disastrousness of what happened yesterday, is that we had won his two previous starts against Baltimore and Detroit, with Bard allowing 2 runs in each. So it's not like the FO has been standing by watching something getting worse and worse.

[SoxFanForsyth]

While Bard's outing vs DET was a good outing, his outing against the Orioles was not a good outing in any aspect. He was extremely lucky to only allow 2 ER.

[Elktonnick]

While Bard's outing vs DET was a good outing' date=' his outing against the Orioles was not a good outing in any aspect. He was extremely lucky to only allow 2 ER.[/quote']

 

His performance against Det & Bal were actually worse than his perfrormance against Cle and Philly. So in a matter of speaking Bard has been going backwards over the past 5 starts.